MG ZS 180

danza

danza

danza

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Right, as Fox is on a 'holiday', I feel that I can reasonably safely post this thread.:D

You may say that one of the flock is straying, and needs a slap back into reality, but hear me out.

There is the possible necessity of freeing up some money, the reasons for which shall remain undisclosed (not drugs/debt etc).

I may sell my CTR, something which I've threatened to do numerous times, but haven't had the heart to carry out. Yet. It's worth, say £5,000, take a bit, probably not give a lot(!).

I will have just over £2k to play with to buy a car that meets the following joint criteria (between my wife and I):

- Fast/ish
- No smaller than our CTR
- Reasonably reliable (had more than my fair share of annoyances with my CTR, so I'm not expecting miracles here)
- No older than the CTR, pref younger (wife's orders)
- No(t much) less economical than the CTR
- Does not fall into any murderous band of road tax (i.e. £245/year is enough)

I do NOT want:

- A Focus (excepting ST170, although unlikely at this budget)
- A Mondeo
- A boring fartbox

The above points being considered have lead me towards the MG ZS 180. Will it explode in a pile of smouldering HGF, or is the KV6 not so likely to self-destruct?

So, what say you OcUK?
 
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reevsy said:
Your age criteria is going to hinder you I think...
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Yes, it certainly is. I was thinking along the lines of something older, perhaps an E36 328i (although probably more costly to run), but they're 'too old'. :/
 
Astra SRi Turbo, although like the ST170 may be a bit difficult for £2000. Had a look on pistonheads and found it quite hard to find a MG ZS 180 for £2000.
 
fonzee said:
consider french?
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The car that immediately springs to mind is the Clio 172, this is too small.

reevsy said:
Zsara VTS
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Hmm, I'd forgotten all about these. Will have a look.

melchy said:
Astra SRi Turbo, although like the ST170 may be a bit difficult for £2000. Had a look on pistonheads and found it quite hard to find a MG ZS 180 for £2000.
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I found a good few ZS 180s for around the £2k mark on PH and AT.
 
I'm not sure what prices are like for the ZS 180s at the moment, but when I bought mine they seemed to be all over the shop for the pre-facelift

1. Its certainly quick enough to keep me entertained, I'm not sure how it will compare the civic but i doubt it will be a major disappointment in this area

2. Id suggest going for the saloon over the hatch if possible, i think it looks much much better and is more than big enough (boot is nice and roomy).

3. Major reliability issue i've came across with the kv6 when reading is the variable intake system (VIS). Worth reading up on this. Also on a slightly related note, make sure the cambelt has been done recently I believe its 6 years or 60-70k some say you can get away with more, id rather not risk it, if it hasn't been done then look to knock a decent amount of cash off as its pretty pricey depending on where you go, some rover / MG specialists will do it for 400ish which is better than the 600-700 some people (try to) charge.

4. Not sure what age your civic is but id imagine an 03 is doable with your budget if you hunt around, maybe even some of the facelifts if you are lucky.

5. economy wise im actually impressed, i manage to get anywhere from 22-28 over a tank with liberal amounts of throttle, over longer motorway journeys 30+ is easily attainable. (my commute is a bit of town dirving with mostly carriageway and motorway)

6. tax is 215 of your finest British pounds for the year, so not too bad.

Additional points, HGF is uncommon on the kv6 afaik ive certainly not seen it raised much if at all.

Good bits

Handling is pretty good in my opinion i don't have a massive amount of exposure to other cars so i wont claim it can run wrings around things i haven't driven.

gearbox is excellent, very short shift and a nice mechanical feel to it all.

Seats are fantastic and comfy, i've done around 240-250 miles non stop and i didnt have any aches or pains (could have used cruise control though).

Engine noise from 3.5K to redline is enough to put a smile on your face regardless of how much you drive it.

Downsides

Interior is ofc a rover from mid 90s so dont expect amazing quality and possibly some creaks and rattles.

Suspension is very stiff and so you will feel a lot of bumps and jolts depending on road surface, once again not sure how this compares to the CTR so it may be the better or worse im not sure.

Turning circle is pretty terrible, due to the steering rack (three turns from lock to lock i believe) and 17 inch wheels.

Overall i would recommend them, for the price i think it is a cracking car. handles well goes well enough for what it is. although id definitely drive one early on to decide whether or not to consider it or not definitely see it being a Marmite car, certainly wouldn't discount it straight away for being a rover in a pretty frock you might be pleasantly surprised.
 
danza said:
Right, as Fox is on a 'holiday', I feel that I can reasonably safely post this thread.:D
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Sadly you are never safe ;)

Obviously this is a silly idea. Allow me to try and politely explain why.

Firstly when selling a car in order to save money, do so. Don't buy an expensive to run liability, buy a decent, properly cheap car and save money properly or its pointless. Thats it - thats all I'll say on the finances aspect.

Onto your criteria.

They pretty much ONLY include the MG ZS. THe ZS180 is the best car to fit your criteria but only because it is the only car. Any car as new or newer than your Civic Type R is going to be either:

a) Rubbish
b) More expensive than £2k
c) Have some sort of other nasty catch

Unfortunately it really is that simple - non tediously boring half quick cars don't tend to cost £2k on a 2002 or newer numberplate.

The ZS will cost you more money to run than your Civic. It'll break down more often, it'll be thirstier, etc. You'll soon get sick of this.

Don't do it.

Either:

a) Keep the Civic
b) Lower the age criteria
c) Buy a cheap and sensible car

:)
 
[TW]Fox;16733124 said:
Any car as new or newer than your Civic Type R is going to be either:

a) Rubbish
b) More expensive than £2k
c) Have some sort of other nasty catch

Unfortunately it really is that simple - non tediously boring half quick cars don't tend to cost £2k on a 2002 or newer numberplate.
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except the xsara ;)
 
[TW]Fox;16733124 said:
Sadly you are never safe ;)


They pretty much ONLY include the MG ZS. THe ZS180 is the best car to fit your criteria but only because it is the only car. Any car as new or newer than your Civic Type R is going to be either:

a) Rubbish
b) More expensive than £2k
c) Have some sort of other nasty catch

Unfortunately it really is that simple - non tediously boring half quick cars don't tend to cost £2k on a 2002 or newer numberplate.

The ZS will cost you more money to run than your Civic. It'll break down more often, it'll be thirstier, etc. You'll soon get sick of this.

Don't do it.

Either:

a) Keep the Civic
b) Lower the age criteria
c) Buy a cheap and sensible car

:)
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I have to admit now, I love my CTR. I can totally see where you are coming from too re. the finacial side of things.

I will say though, against my Civic, that it has been a pain in the buttocks. Aside the usual running wear and tear, it has:

- Refused to start for about 2 days (immobiliser problem, undiagnosable by Honda)
- Had alarm issues with random alarm outbursts (fixed now)
- Conked out on a dangerous part of a busy A-road in rush hour (Immobiliser problem, costing £400 to fix which replaced the alarm/immobiliser motherboard)
- Been recovered twice due to brake problems
- Refused to go into any gear on two separate occasions (mid journey, when my wife was on her own, undiagnosable by Honda)

My CTR ownership experience hasn't exactly been plain sailing. The car has struck me as being a bit of a lemon at times. However, it has been pretty good for the last ~1 year with no out-of-schedule parts falling to bits/being replaced (apart from being donked into a curb resulting in a £3k insurance claim).

As far as I can see, the MG is not that bad in terms of economy (my CTR I'd guess averages ~28mpg, and has an all time best of 30mpg on a 200+ mile run). The MG doesn't seem to really be rubbish, have (m)any catches (apart from being based on an old Honda), and doesn;t cost a fortune to buy. i'm by no means using this as justification, merely an observation on your opinion.

The only reason I can see it being a not sensible thing to do is due to the financial aspect rather than the outright crapness of the car.

Lowering the age criteria would be a good move, yes, but as wee all know, with age comes separate issues regarding general wear etc.

I'll probably wake up in the morning wondering what I was thinking even considering this!
 
Ok long reply incoming.

But first...I agree with Fox. They are not a cheap car to run, it certainly ISN'T a car I'd buy with the idea of saving money. And thats after owning mine for nearly 2 years :)

Anyway.

Bad Points

No point beating about the bush.

As mentioned above, the VIS system/plenum is a CRAP design, it can and usually does break frequently and can cost you upto £500 a time to sort it. Basically the inlet manifold (or proper term for it is inlet plenum) has 2 VIS valves which open and close the butterfly valves within the plenum. The first bank open fully at 3.5k and the second bank around 5k.

Now what happens is that oil leaks from the throttle body into the plenum which leaks further into the valves and knackers them. It can cost upto £90 a valve. Now, thankfully this is what usually happens and replace the valve which takes seconds as they bolt on externally to the plenum.

However, sometimes the damage CAN go further and knacker the internal arm and cause it to err...not open the banks of valves. If this goes the car will sound like a bag of nails and you'll know if it goes as well due to the lack of power 'surges' (am tired can't think of a better way to describe it) at 3.5k and 5krpm. (also if you get it dyno'd it's anyones guess as to what you'll get)

Plenum can cost anywhere between £300 and £500 to replace it.

Thankfully, this is the most expensive problem. Also whilst its not guarantee a good fix for it is fitting an oil catch tank :)

Other bad points the top of my head...

Terrible turning circle, making it a pig to park.

Can use a drop a oil, keep an eye on it. (Specially if you are nailing it everywhere)

When you buy one as mentioned above make sure its got the cambelts done, if it hasn't got this done point blank take £500 off the asking price, most places charge this (and it's not something easily done by yourself)

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Good Points

Go well
Plenty of torque
Seats are very comfy and supportive
Lovely gearbox (if you want a shorter shift one is available to buy for about £50 and it is easy to fit)
Parts are easy to come by EXCEPT for body parts (although theres normally one a month being broken for parts somewhere and advertised on forums)


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Some mods to note, the standard breathing system on it sucks balls. Fit a decent induction - I had a BMC CDA induction with the cold intake in replacement for a foglight :p and it gave me 10bhp on top of standard. Fit a decat or sports-cat and that'll give you another 6-7bhp.

As far as £ per HP the KV6 isn't the best. The most you can squeeze out of the car is 210-215bhp (220 if your lucky) without a supercharger. Full breathing mods include the induction, Janspeed manifolds, decat, catback and backbox, this will see you at a comfortable bhp, this will see you at about £1500-£1600 (depending on where you get the parts from and labour to). Piper 270cams and a remap will see you around 210-220bhp, but will cost you the better part of £800.

If you want more power, you can get a supercharger, but if you fit one you MUST got forged piston route as it fatigues the standard ones and kills them. Also it'll need the custom oil feed fitted so it doesn't starve itself. A supercharger with the above mods will take you to about 260bhp.

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Not sure why I posted the stuff about mods as your looking to save money, but theres the info if you wondered anyway.

Any questions, feel free to ask. I know an unhealthy amount about these cars. :)

Also the KV6 doesn't suffer HGF.
 
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[TW]Fox;16733174 said:
Well no, it applies to the Xsara as well, the nasty catch being it is horribly, horribly ugly. This means if you are one of the few who DOES like how they look, you can get a complete bargain :)
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You can add to that the awful interior quality plus that fact it doesn't feel at all quick.

If you're buying a car to save money then a Mondeo makes most sense. Either a sub £1k mk2 or if you want something more modern then a £2k mk3.
 
Thanks for the replies guys, especially Phate - some very useful stuff there.

It's hard for me to explain that it's by no means a cost saving exercise. I can easily afford to run my CTR, which hasn't been cheap by any means. It's for personal reasons that I may need to come up with some money, and above what I can afford to save (which is incidentally absolutely earmarked for much needed home improvements). This will be a one off thing, and will never likely happen again.

It's as simple as I may need a lump of cash, and the car can give me this through its sale. I have no real problem letting the CTR go, especially if I can replace it with something somewhere near as fun to drive. It's a necessary sacrifice to me. Regarding other cars, namely the MG, I have no real concern over interior quality, as the CTR rattles like a biscuit tin full of bolts sometimes (temperature depenant!). My father-in-law has a '98 Civic saloon, which I have to say is far better built than my CTR interior quality wise at least. I'm used to a harsh ride and super tanker-esque turning circle as well, as the Civic has these both! I'll search for some information relating to running costs to compare, but I really cannot see there being much difference.

It may well turn out that I don't need to sell the CTR, and in some ways I'd rather keep hold of it as it's almost a known quantity (i.e. hasn't thrown a proper wobbly for a while now).

All I'm doing is trying to find a potential compromise that keeps both me and my wife happy and free up some cash, but have kind of reached stale mate with the MG. If it comes to it, I'll take a 180 out for a spin to see what I think. If I don't like, I won't buy and will look elsewhere. Simple as that. Oh, and the Xsara VTS a terrible looking car. I forgot just how nasty it was!
 
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[TW]Fox;16734146 said:
Why not just get a personal loan for the cash you want, £3k over 3 years is less than £100 a month.
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Well, that does make more sense. However, our house needs rewiring, some plastering, a new kitchen, new bathroom, new cloakroom, carpets, loft insulation etc. etc., so we're trying to pour absolutely all our savings into a big pot to (finally) get things done after being here for 4 years. All we've managed so far is to do the garden (which was no mean feat). It's all well and good, but the attitude we've had upto this point has lead us not to save very much. We want to start a family at some point, and a nice home to raise one in would definitely be a bonus! This is not what the money released from the potential sale of the CTR would be for.

Reading the above does sound like a rubbish excuse, but there is a point where enough is enough, and money must be saved instead of frivolously spent.

So really, all I'm asking is what car for ~£2k that meets the above criteria?

Of course, this hopefully won't need to happen, but it depends on timing really, and how much money is in the bank in an unknown number of months time!
 
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