Micro$haft

Frank_Rizzo said:
Mark1@1 has replied as expected :(

:D

If a company spends millions on the IT upgrade and forces the share price to plummit, it is a bad decision, a failed risk, in the same way that any business decision can be costly.

But progress is progress, companies want to make money and move forward and most importantly, be seen to be moving forward. You try bidding for, and winning business if your competition has the latest facilities, best equipment, best trained staff and a progressive out-look, and suddenly you appear to be a generation behind.

It only takes one of your competitors to make the jump and you either jump on board or abbandon ship.
 
Government departments don't have shareprices.

Of course organisations need to upgrade IT now and again.

IMO upgrades to NT was a particularly bad milestone and the worst in a companies history.

If a director or IT manager has been in a particular place for a long time I'm pretty sure that of all the upgrades that had gone on they would state that the NT upgrade was the worst for productivity / cost pay off.
 
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Frank_Rizzo said:
Government departments don't have shareprices.

Nope but they do seem to have IT bods who like to build systems that they think the department needs and in reality they don't.

Building a mansion when all that was required was a shed ;) But that is not MS, that is the in house decision maker.
 
Really dude, it seems you've been proved wrong and your clutching at whatever you can to redeem yourself. Leave it IMO.

You've gone from saying they're crap, to NT is crap, to they steal people's money, to they cost IT businesses loads to upgrade. They weren't forced to upgrade. By the time NT was out, all previous platforms were still supported. They made the choice. Progress is sometimes a costly thing, but it lead to where we are at in computers today.
 
The fining of Microsoft did anything but help the end user - the only people who made any kind of money were the lawyers.
You need to look at the full story behind Microsoft as to why they were fined in the first place and once you do although you can see why it happened you cannot really see how it benefitted anybody.

I was pleased to see you used the words "almost monopoly".
I'd go so far as to say "almost the dictionary definition of a monopoly".
One example would be that a monopoly will continue to increase the price of their product every year as there is no alternative.
However if you take Windows 95, inflation and Win98, WinME, WinNT, WinXP, Vista you'll see that in real terms MS products haven't actually increased in price at all.

Microsoft were fined because they held a massive percentage of the OS market which meant that their media player and Internet browser by default appeared on nearly every users desktop whereas users had to actively download other browsers, other media players.
A lot of Microsoft's rivals felt this was unfair and hence the main part of the lawsuites against Microsoft.
The fact is that nobody had a good alternative out there - which is something you cannot blame Microsoft for.
Microsoft were late to the party with IE, yet somehow they managed to make progress even though the likes of Netscape had 4-5 years advantage over MS.
IE2 was dire, IE3 was terrible.
However come the release of IE4 it was game, set & match Microsoft - nothing could touch IE4.
Netscape watched as their 4-5 years advantage vanished into nothing because they spent all their time sat on their backsides rolling out minor updates, nothing substantial and still charging for their browser.
The same could be said for Media Player - it played all of the popular formats and was lite and took up little memory, something Real & Apple simply could not claim (the big two against MS and Media Player).
So was it really fair MS were fined because nobody had bothered to get an alternative out there?
People will always hunt out and seek the best application for a job so the very fact people were using IE4 rather than Netscape 4 speaks volumes.

I'm also not sure where you get this idea about MS roll-outs 97-00 being a joke etc.
I've always had to pick the best OS and application for a job in all the roles I've performed.
Now as an IT Manager I have to choose between Microsoft and Linux on a daily basis.
On some occasions the Microsoft products win by a lot (Exchange) and in others Linux (Appache under Ubuntu) makes the better choice.
The lack of choice around the 97-00 era was because there wasn't anything out there that rivalled the MS way of doing things.
Novell and NDS was a real alternative to WinNT, however Windows 2000 and the release of AD1.0 was the death call for NDS.
NDS (with its years head start) was still more powerful than AD1 yet people flocked to Win2k AD as it was simply easier to configure and look after.
Novell had their chance, AD1.1 was released - game, set & match.

You cannot blame Microsoft for people not releasing products as good as their own.
 
Nope but they do seem to have IT bods who like to build systems that they think the department needs and in reality they don't.

Exactly. That's what I have been saying. IT bods mesmersied by eenNNNN tTTTTeee sold the board a pup. They convinced them that the next million should be spent on upgrading to NT, upgrading PCs, training staff for an O/S they didn't need....

Now I see your point: you are blaming the IT bods for this. But I say they were themselves suckered into this by thinking that the next technology would make their jobs easier and company productivity go up. On that second point - it didn't.
 
They weren't forced to upgrade

No but they did. They were convinced that productivity would go up and IT support costs would go down. But it did not happen. All that happened was that the majority of (front line) staff had stuff they did not need or use and that support problems increased (presumably as support budgets were cut because of the new "wonder system")

As I say, I saw this in government departments, retail, finance. For all the companies I worked for over the years the NT roll outs had the most problems and IMO the worst productivity / cost ratio.
 
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Are you saying that WinNT 4 was not an upgrade that companies already running Win95 on workstations should have made?
Are you honestly saying that WinNT wasn't worth the money over either DOS/Win or Win95?

I'd say our support calls (after the initial month as people got used to the changes) halved after we made the upgrade internally.
Simple things like desktop crashes halved because a misbehaving application couldn't take the whole OS down.
 
Stoofa I don't know what companies you worked for at the time but the ones I worked for the majority of staff just:

Switch on PC
Opened terminal session to AS/400
Used AS/400 front end
Logged out
Switched off
 
Frank_Rizzo said:
No but they did. They were convinced that productivity would go up and IT support costs would go down. But it did not happen. All that happened was that the majority of (front line) staff had stuff they did not need or use and that support problems increased (presumably as support budgets were cut because of the new "wonder system")

As I say, I saw this in government departments, retail, finance. For all the companies I worked for over the years the NT roll outs had the most problems and IMO the worst productivity / cost ratio.

Ok so it's Microsoft's fault that people bought their product. I really see how pathetic your argument is now. Anything you can say to slate them you are.
 
Frank_Rizzo said:
(I realise now I can still say this, even if I look immature. But I'd rather be seen to be a immature than be totalitarianised :) )
That one sentence makes you look like a presumptious fool, to be frank.
 
mrk1@1 said:
Traits of many a good IT department director :p ;)
Good god I hate IT "technicians". Never seen a group of people so universally up their own backsides, praising themselves and their work!

Obviously there are a few exceptions to this rule :)
 
Why do you guys have to resort to a personal attack? Have I done that to any of you guys personally?

If you can not debate without gutter remarks can you please find some other thread to unleash your vitriol?

I'm not here to win friends and influence people. I don't give a jot if you don't like my style. But what started as Rizzo is childish to Rizzo is a premuptious fool is not very nice and totally disrespectful.

Is there anyone here who wants to debate the OT, or the supplemental namely NT was a poor upgrade decision (in general) for companies?
 
Frank_Rizzo said:
Why do you guys have to resort to a personal attack? Have I done that to any of you guys personally?

If you can not debate without gutter remarks can you please find some other thread to unleash your vitriol?
Microsoft are laughing at your irony here.
 
Benjarghmin said:
Ok so it's Microsoft's fault that people bought their product.

It's Microsoft's fault that they fooled people into thinking NT would increase productivity and lower support costs. In my experience the total opposite happened.
 
Frank_Rizzo said:
It's Microsoft's fault that they fooled people into thinking NT would increase productivity and lower support costs. In my experience the total opposite happened.

I don't think they fooled anyone. I'm pretty sure they just made a product, made it available to the public, and the "new product, going to buy it" followed.
 
Frank_Rizzo said:
In all my years of posting on message boards and bbs I have never had any objections from anyone for using the terms Micro$haft or Micro$oft.

I did make a post yesterday using one of those words and I now feel as outcast as Ron Atkinson.

Who has the right to call me 'childish' and 'immature' because I choose to type Microsoft in a way I see that corporation?

I thought the youth of today were as rebellious as in my younger days but it seems they are not: they are more caring of company images and prefer to launch disrespectful attacks on individuals!

I know there is no such thing as free speech on message boards, and I know that there are many words you just can not post.

But really - is it such a taboo to call Microsoft Micro$haft?

If you use their products then you obviously like it enough to have bought or even downloaded it, in that case why call them "Micro$oft"?

If you don't use their products then fair enough...
 
There is profit and excessive profit. And IMO they can justifiable be called M$ and it's derivitives because of:

"violating the European Union treaty's competition rules by abusing it's near monopoly"
 
Frank_Rizzo said:
Why do you guys have to resort to a personal attack? Have I done that to any of you guys personally?

The point you're missing is, you typed something sad and childish which presumably you thought made you look like a rebel, you thought you were the cool anti-MS rad dude, someone pointed out that it made you look like a ****, and now you've got your knickers in a twist.

Cut your losses.
 
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