Microsoft doesn't need publicity

[Durzel]

....when there is an army of fanboys who will praise Vista to the hilt like its the best thing since sliced bread.

I've used Vista since early beta (was an official beta-tester) all the way up to the last RC. It was nice to look at but it never really felt like it was a great deal more than XP + Windowblinds/ThemeXP.

I disabled the incessant "Are you sure you want to open a program?" nagging almost immediately, and beyond that and endless problems with hardware compatibility (early Creative drivers would bluescreen the PC every time you shut down, zero Crossfire/OpenGL support from ATI, etc) and software incompatibility it just wasn't that impressive.

I'm sure it fits the bill for the Mac/iPhone generation who just want something that looks really pretty whilst not being revolutionary for the right reasons, but that's not for me. The irony of course is that those who buy into Vista wholesale because they believe it makes them "special" or "unique" are exactly the same as the other fools who just buy into any bit of hardware tech going without a second thought because some faceless corporate tells them its good. PhysX anyone?

As the saying goes, "anyone who buys a mobile phone to say something about their personality hasn't got a personality."

Having personally had experience of running both Vista and XP in parallel I can happily say that there isn't anything there for me that makes me feel like I'm missing out. I can safely say there hasn't been a time when I've thought "you know, XP is great but I really wish I could view my windows at weird perspective angles".

I'm not anti-Microsoft, I would've been quite happy if Vista was a revolution in OS design. It's not though - it's a warmed over XP with a modern looking theme. Yet I have no doubt that the same fools who absolutely must have the latest of everything no matter how good or bad it is, or how marginally faster it is than what they already have, will carry on doing Microsofts job for them - flaming anyone who dares to comment about their new beloved Vista.

 

[Durzel]

The changes between Vista and XP from a low level design point of view are vast.

Are you personally familiar with these "vast low-level changes" and how they actually affect the end-user experience or are you just parroting the vague marketing blurb? I don't mean offence by that comment - but I have seen a lot of people talking in a vernacular that suggests they are just reading bulletpoints from a marketing press-pack.

My point is whilst Vista is "the next step" more out of circumstance (Microsofts dominant market share) than science - I don't really understand why people who are usually quite level-headed suddenly become so intoxicated by something which isn't really that radical.

As I mentioned I did use Vista and obviously the GUI is the first thing that strikes you as different, but the other things - as far as an end-user experience goes - just weren't that revolutionary as I expected. People say things load faster, but I would debate that (placebo effect, new install effect, etc) plus a number of other vague plus-points that don't really stack up to scrutiny.

It's the same scenario for me as the whole 8800 vs 7950 situation. When the 8800s cards came out suddenly, overnight, the 7950 was "old tech" and "useless" - even the people who had shelled out a load of money on 7950s were alluding to the fact that they didn't know how they coped on such ancient technology.

I can't see Vista delivering anything new to me that I don't already get from XP. I can't think of a single thing that I am currently missing out on.

 

[Durzel]

I have never once heard that saying. I imagine your flat looks something from the soviet area in 1980's and you drive a tractor. And everything you own is purely functional, without any reference to your personality and contains no design traits of any artistic value.

Thanks for proving my point. Here's a little fact for you: it's not a fashion statement when everyone else is wearing the same thing.

 

[Durzel]

Open your eyes. Stop thinking in XP.

Shouldn't that be "Open Your Eyes™" ? Can you actually tell me what is so radically better about it, other than the facts you can glean from reading the back of the box? Please bear in mind as I said before I beta-tested Vista for the better part of a year.

 

[Durzel]

The funny thing is, from reading the-voids post history - he's exactly the kind of guy I'm talking about. Someone who hasn't actually personally got any technical knowledge of what is going on under the hood, but talks about it using pseudo-Microsoft-PR speak as if he does.

He even copied and pasted Microsofts awesome "100 reasons" list in another thread, the one in which the #1 reason to switch to Vista was - and I quote - "It makes using your PC a breeze".

Well damn, I know when I boot up XP I get that crushing feeling of despair knowing that I'm not going to be able to get anything done because of the counter-intuitive GUI, slow application loading, etc. Hold on a sec, that's not actually true!.....

For the record I'm not saying Vista is crap. I liked using it, and if I'm honest I am reasonably amused by flashy OSX-like interfaces. There's just not enough there to upgrade, and certainly not enough to justify writing XP off as obsolete.

 

[Durzel]

Why don't you buy a couple of manual's and discover for yourself why Vista is different than XP rather than expect it to be spoonfed to you be me. You don't learn to ride a bike by watching someone else.

Besides, as if me explaining for the thousandth time what has changed between XP and Vista is going to change your mind anyway. Stay with XP if you don't like Vista.

The biggest irony is that you posted "Microsoft doesn't need the publicity".
Classic.

Why would a manual tell me what was different? Are you totally clueless? Did you miss the part where I said I have personally beta-tested Vista for the better part of a year?

I think I can safely say I am considerably more authoritative on it than someone who saw it being advertised and thought "coo! bright lights! shiny interface make me cool!".

You haven't explained once what has changed, let alone "a thousandth".. all Ive seen you do from reading the post history is just parrot MS "100 reasons" list (which is laughable by the way). Indulge me, what is so radically different please the-void?

 

[Durzel]

I bet you a million quid Durzel that you will be one of the first to be complaining (again) when Windows 7 ("Vienna") doesn't have a taskbar or have any visual appearance common with what Explorer has been like since Windows 95.

Oh and you obviously weren't properly beta testing it if you don't have any idea of the under hood changes. Any "real" beta tester was salivating at the mouth to start writing code for these new frameworks about a year ago.

So only programmers were "real" beta testers?

I could give a crap about the taskbar being there or not - I use plenty of different operating systems with and without GUIs day in, day out. And don't lecture me on .NET Framework please - it's what I do for a living

 

[Durzel]

I make it my business not to entertain idiots. Sorry.

Nice cop out

 

[Durzel]

Correct. Just because you downloaded the public RC's doesn't make you privy to what's changed under the hood. That's why you're having to ask here.

Not wanting to blow my own trumpet but do a search through some of my posts in this forum and you'll come across some technical info on Vista...

Ooh "public RCs", is that meant as a dig? Like I said, I was an official beta-tester as presumably were you - which meant the public RCs and the non-public builds on Connect. I'm not stating that as some kind of willy-waving display, it's just a fact.

I didn't spend a vast amount of time doing anything with Visual Studio in it I'll admit, I had too many other paid commitments to do that. My testing was mainly from "my leisure" perspective. Since you're focusing presumably on the .NET side of things - are the applications that are going to be developed on it going to radically change my user-experience?

More sun-shines-out-MS-ass guff

Just noticed virtually every single one of your posts on this forum has been about Vista, and sticking the knife into anyone who dares criticise it. Clearly there is no reasoning with someone with that mindset (i.e. exactly the sort of person I'm talking about in the original post).

 

[Durzel]

I never said I didn't like Vista.

When are you going to start talking like an adult?

 

[Durzel]

A dig? What is with your attitude? Jesus. Calm down a bit would you? Not everyone is on your back...

.NET programmers benefit in several ways:
1. WPF - an XML-based markup language called XAML forms the basis of a declarative language in same way HTML works. Windows Forms are now officially deprecated. WPF is the next-gen way to create windows. Everything under WPF is GPU accelerated.

2. WCF - web services communication framework. It's like WSE 3.0 but on steroids.

3. Performance - Vista has a .NET subsystem (originally it was going to be called WinFX) for the first time. This effectively puts .NET in the same position that Win32 API is, in terms of performance. Direct calls into the kernel are now possible.

4. More coming with Visual Studio "Orcas" and .NET 3.5.

Now that's the sort of stuff I wanted to hear.. all positives. Consider me a lot happier from the programmer point of view Does this mean that programming .NET apps no longer means a guaranteed memory overhead (vs a Borland C++ 6 app)?

Still going to wait for the drivers to mature though I think.

Apologies for the spikey attitude - I just took that "public RCs" as a inferrence that I was only looking at Vista at the very latter stages (not that there is anything wrong with that persay).

 

[Durzel]

These people were around when Xp came out. I don't want all that bloat!!!! I'm sticking with my *heavily* tweaked 2000!!!!

Then suddenly they're using Xp.

XP can be made to look practically identical to 2000 though, and there were technical reasons to upgrade (desupport, etc) so the comparison isn't exactly analogous.

 

[Durzel]

Doesn't that reason directly translate to Vista?

Burnsy

Not yet it doesn't. Did the people who moaned about XP when they were on 2000 upgrade straight away?

As the saying goes "anyone who buys £60 of red wheel nuts to say something about their personality hasn't got a personality"

Sorry Durzel, I know it's childish, but i had to get that one in.

Yep, it's childish... and a little stupid on your part, but not too surprising. You'll notice that quote of mine is from a thread which is entitled "mods you regret doing to your car?". Silly boy

 

[Durzel]

Oh sorry, I didn't realise you had the monopoly on talking peoples posts out of context.

What is stupid is starting a thread where you ask what's different between Vista and XP whilst proclaiming your a programmer and have been a Beta Tester for over a year (What have you been doing in that time). When people do respond to you (such as Burnsy, and NathanE) your only looking to dismiss what they say.

You also come out with quotes such as the one about mobile phones, yet admit yourself you spent £60 importing red wheel nuts that you later regretted. Now that is silly. (And says a lot about your personality)

Do you have a problem with reading, seriously?

I haven't picked apart what NathanE or Burnsy have said in the slightest, I said what NathanE said about the API improvements was wholly positive. How is that in ANY way negative?

Once again for the cheap seats - I don't hate Vista, I don't dislike the experience of using it, I just didn't see a huge advantage in upgrading. NathanE has kindly provided some very compelling reasons why it could be worth another look - something you've completely failed to do. A bit strange given you proudly troll every other Vista thread replying with MS buzz phrases like "Vista makes using an OS feel like a breeze".

Also, what part of buying something and regretting it later says "a lot about my personality"? Or is that just another of those random negative sayings that you throw about with no weight behind them? What specifically does it say about ones personality, are you actually able to elaborate? Or, as I suspect in your reply, you'll simply cop out and say something along the lines of "omg no time for loosers like you". You can't even insult effectively, let alone argue.

When people do respond to you (such as Burnsy, and NathanE) your only looking to dismiss what they say.

It's "you're" numbnuts, you even missed it in the edit. Oh yeah, I've come down to your level.

The way I see it: I like to play games, in the future there will exist games which only run on DX10, these games will need vista, hence I will need to pay for vista at some point in the future.

That's very true. DX10 being Vista only will make Vista pretty much essential for anyone who wants to have the most eyecandy playing games, and let's face it who doesn't