Microsoft doesn't need publicity

Durzel · 6 Feb 2007 at 12:19

....when there is an army of fanboys who will praise Vista to the hilt like its the best thing since sliced bread.

I've used Vista since early beta (was an official beta-tester) all the way up to the last RC. It was nice to look at but it never really felt like it was a great deal more than XP + Windowblinds/ThemeXP.

I disabled the incessant "Are you sure you want to open a program?" nagging almost immediately, and beyond that and endless problems with hardware compatibility (early Creative drivers would bluescreen the PC every time you shut down, zero Crossfire/OpenGL support from ATI, etc) and software incompatibility it just wasn't that impressive.

I'm sure it fits the bill for the Mac/iPhone generation who just want something that looks really pretty whilst not being revolutionary for the right reasons, but that's not for me. The irony of course is that those who buy into Vista wholesale because they believe it makes them "special" or "unique" are exactly the same as the other fools who just buy into any bit of hardware tech going without a second thought because some faceless corporate tells them its good. PhysX anyone?

As the saying goes, "anyone who buys a mobile phone to say something about their personality hasn't got a personality."

Having personally had experience of running both Vista and XP in parallel I can happily say that there isn't anything there for me that makes me feel like I'm missing out. I can safely say there hasn't been a time when I've thought "you know, XP is great but I really wish I could view my windows at weird perspective angles".

I'm not anti-Microsoft, I would've been quite happy if Vista was a revolution in OS design. It's not though - it's a warmed over XP with a modern looking theme. Yet I have no doubt that the same fools who absolutely must have the latest of everything no matter how good or bad it is, or how marginally faster it is than what they already have, will carry on doing Microsofts job for them - flaming anyone who dares to comment about their new beloved Vista.

Fr0dders · 6 Feb 2007 at 12:22

so far all of the problems you have described are driver related issues

and nothing to do with microsoft.

hardly a valid criticism

i can think of lots of valid criticisms of Vista, but none of those are.

Six6siX · 6 Feb 2007 at 12:23

You seem to be hung up on the visual aspect of Vista, which while important because its what you see and use, is not as important as what has gone on under the hood.

The changes between Vista and XP from a low level design point of view are vast.

Certainly, there is no reason to change, but it WILL be the future.

the-void · 6 Feb 2007 at 12:31

Durzel said:
As the saying goes, "anyone who buys a mobile phone to say something about their personality hasn't got a personality."

I have never once heard that saying. I imagine your flat looks something from the soviet area in 1980's and you drive a tractor. And everything you own is purely functional, without any reference to your personality and contains no design traits of any artistic value.

Durzel said:
the irony of course is that those who buy into Vista wholesale because they believe it makes them "special" or "unique" are exactly the same as the other fools who just buy into any bit of hardware tech going without a second thought because some faceless corporate tells them its good

Please. Having Vista doesn't make me feel unique. I am certainly no fool. Where is your basis for all this, or are you so against any form of progress you would rather mankind still be living in the stone age.

Burnsy2023 · 6 Feb 2007 at 12:33

TBH, to the average user, there isn't much difference, but for most people there isn't much difference between 2000 and XP, yet how many people still use 2k?

Burnsy

Durzel · 6 Feb 2007 at 12:38

Six6siX said:
The changes between Vista and XP from a low level design point of view are vast.

Are you personally familiar with these "vast low-level changes" and how they actually affect the end-user experience or are you just parroting the vague marketing blurb? I don't mean offence by that comment - but I have seen a lot of people talking in a vernacular that suggests they are just reading bulletpoints from a marketing press-pack.

My point is whilst Vista is "the next step" more out of circumstance (Microsofts dominant market share) than science - I don't really understand why people who are usually quite level-headed suddenly become so intoxicated by something which isn't really that radical.

As I mentioned I did use Vista and obviously the GUI is the first thing that strikes you as different, but the other things - as far as an end-user experience goes - just weren't that revolutionary as I expected. People say things load faster, but I would debate that (placebo effect, new install effect, etc) plus a number of other vague plus-points that don't really stack up to scrutiny.

It's the same scenario for me as the whole 8800 vs 7950 situation. When the 8800s cards came out suddenly, overnight, the 7950 was "old tech" and "useless" - even the people who had shelled out a load of money on 7950s were alluding to the fact that they didn't know how they coped on such ancient technology.

I can't see Vista delivering anything new to me that I don't already get from XP. I can't think of a single thing that I am currently missing out on.

the-void · 6 Feb 2007 at 12:40

Durzel said:
I can't see Vista delivering anything new to me that I don't already get from XP. I can't think of a single thing that I am currently missing out on.

Open your eyes. Stop thinking in XP.

Durzel · 6 Feb 2007 at 12:40

the-void said:
I have never once heard that saying. I imagine your flat looks something from the soviet area in 1980's and you drive a tractor. And everything you own is purely functional, without any reference to your personality and contains no design traits of any artistic value.

Thanks for proving my point. Here's a little fact for you: it's not a fashion statement when everyone else is wearing the same thing.

Durzel · 6 Feb 2007 at 12:41

the-void said:
Open your eyes. Stop thinking in XP.

Shouldn't that be "Open Your Eyes™" ? Can you actually tell me what is so radically better about it, other than the facts you can glean from reading the back of the box? Please bear in mind as I said before I beta-tested Vista for the better part of a year.

Six6siX · 6 Feb 2007 at 12:49

Durzel said:
Are you personally familiar with these "vast low-level changes" and how they actually affect the end-user experience or are you just parroting the vague marketing blurb? I don't mean offence by that comment - but I have seen a lot of people talking in a vernacular that suggests they are just reading bulletpoints from a marketing press-pack.

No, I'm not personally familiar with them - I don't work for MS.

However, I have read a lot into Vista and like yourself, I have decided not to upgrade just yet but for a different reason: I'm waiting for better driver support from manufacturers.

To pick on your example of UAC, you need to remember that the majority of people using computers are not that competent and its really a good thing if it stops silly mistakes. What would be the sense in leaving something like that out of a new OS? At least we have the option of turning it off!

To mention another, Vista has far better memory management in my experience. It makes much more efficient use of the memory you have available. That's definitely a huge plus point but doesn't manifest itself in the GUI. Its behind the scenes.

There are many more I'm sure, but to reiterate, no I'm not personally familiar with them - I don't know how they work or how they are implemented, but they are there and make a difference.

Durzel · 6 Feb 2007 at 12:49

The funny thing is, from reading the-voids post history - he's exactly the kind of guy I'm talking about. Someone who hasn't actually personally got any technical knowledge of what is going on under the hood, but talks about it using pseudo-Microsoft-PR speak as if he does.

He even copied and pasted Microsofts awesome "100 reasons" list in another thread, the one in which the #1 reason to switch to Vista was - and I quote - "It makes using your PC a breeze".

Well damn, I know when I boot up XP I get that crushing feeling of despair knowing that I'm not going to be able to get anything done because of the counter-intuitive GUI, slow application loading, etc. Hold on a sec, that's not actually true!..... :rolleyes:

For the record I'm not saying Vista is crap. I liked using it, and if I'm honest I am reasonably amused by flashy OSX-like interfaces. There's just not enough there to upgrade, and certainly not enough to justify writing XP off as obsolete.

the-void · 6 Feb 2007 at 12:49

Durzel said:
Shouldn't that be "Open Your Eyes™" ? Can you actually tell me what is so radically better about it, other than the facts you can glean from reading the back of the box? Please bear in mind as I said before I beta-tested Vista for the better part of a year.

Why don't you buy a couple of manual's and discover for yourself why Vista is different than XP rather than expect it to be spoonfed to you be me. You don't learn to ride a bike by watching someone else.

Besides, as if me explaining for the thousandth time what has changed between XP and Vista is going to change your mind anyway. Stay with XP if you don't like Vista.

The biggest irony is that you posted "Microsoft doesn't need the publicity".
Classic.

Slinwagh · 6 Feb 2007 at 12:49

MrLOL said:
so far all of the problems you have described are driver related issues

and nothing to do with microsoft.

hardly a valid criticism

I concur.

bfar · 6 Feb 2007 at 12:50

Six6siX said:
You seem to be hung up on the visual aspect of Vista, which while important because its what you see and use, is not as important as what has gone on under the hood.

The changes between Vista and XP from a low level design point of view are vast.

Certainly, there is no reason to change, but it WILL be the future.

Damn right, I'm hung up on its looks! Appearance is one of the most important things. Espesially if you have to look at it all day. Which would you buy, Kate Moss or Judie Dench?

I got a new mobo so I needed a new licance. I would have been out of my mind to buy XP.

NathanE · 6 Feb 2007 at 12:51

I bet you a million quid Durzel that you will be one of the first to be complaining (again) when Windows 7 ("Vienna") doesn't have a taskbar or have any visual appearance common with what Explorer has been like since Windows 95.

Oh and you obviously weren't properly beta testing it if you don't have any idea of the under hood changes. Any "real" beta tester was salivating at the mouth to start writing code for these new frameworks about a year ago.

HEADRAT · 6 Feb 2007 at 12:55

Exactly, the similarity in Vista to XP is by design not by accident, why on earth would you throw away a perfect good HCI and start again!

If they had radically changed the UI there would have been an outcry!

HEADRAT

the-void · 6 Feb 2007 at 12:57

Durzel said:
The funny thing is, from reading the-voids post history - he's exactly the kind of guy I'm talking about. Someone who hasn't actually personally got any technical knowledge of what is going on under the hood, but talks about it using pseudo-Microsoft-PR speak as if he does.

He even copied and pasted Microsofts awesome "100 reasons" list in another thread, the one in which the #1 reason to switch to Vista was - and I quote - "It makes using your PC a breeze".

That last post was tongue in cheek. In using it to suggest I have no technical knowledge just highlights your laziness. You really don't delve too deeply before you make your assumptions do you. No wonder you cannot figure out what's different between Vista and XP, you haven't got past the task bar yet.

Durzel · 6 Feb 2007 at 12:57

the-void said:
Why don't you buy a couple of manual's and discover for yourself why Vista is different than XP rather than expect it to be spoonfed to you be me. You don't learn to ride a bike by watching someone else.

Besides, as if me explaining for the thousandth time what has changed between XP and Vista is going to change your mind anyway. Stay with XP if you don't like Vista.

The biggest irony is that you posted "Microsoft doesn't need the publicity".
Classic.

Why would a manual tell me what was different? Are you totally clueless? Did you miss the part where I said I have personally beta-tested Vista for the better part of a year?

I think I can safely say I am considerably more authoritative on it than someone who saw it being advertised and thought "coo! bright lights! shiny interface make me cool!".

You haven't explained once what has changed, let alone "a thousandth".. all Ive seen you do from reading the post history is just parrot MS "100 reasons" list (which is laughable by the way). Indulge me, what is so radically different please the-void?

Durzel · 6 Feb 2007 at 12:59

NathanE said:
I bet you a million quid Durzel that you will be one of the first to be complaining (again) when Windows 7 ("Vienna") doesn't have a taskbar or have any visual appearance common with what Explorer has been like since Windows 95.

Oh and you obviously weren't properly beta testing it if you don't have any idea of the under hood changes. Any "real" beta tester was salivating at the mouth to start writing code for these new frameworks about a year ago.

So only programmers were "real" beta testers?

I could give a crap about the taskbar being there or not - I use plenty of different operating systems with and without GUIs day in, day out. And don't lecture me on .NET Framework please - it's what I do for a living

the-void · 6 Feb 2007 at 12:59

Wurzel said:
Why would a manual tell me what was different? Are you totally clueless? Did you miss the part where I said I have personally beta-tested Vista for the better part of a year?
[/qoute]

Groan. Durzel, do you think you are the only one who Beta Tested Vista. I was testing Longhorn whilst you was having your nappy changed.

[/quote=Wurzel]
I think I can safely say I am considerably more authoritative on it than someone who saw it being advertised and thought "coo! bright lights! shiny interface make me cool!".

Isn't that Cartman from Southpark's line. "Repsek my Authority".

Wurzel said:
You haven't explained once what has changed, let alone "a thousandth".. all Ive seen you do from reading the post history is just parrot MS "100 reasons" list (which is laughable by the way). Indulge me, what is so radically different please the-void?

Groan. Go and find out for yourself you horrid troll.