Microsoft Expression Web

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Well, downloaded this from MSDN to have a play and to be honest its not bad.

Must admit I haven't used an editor for a while, trying to play with the writing of pages in Editplus but I think I like it better than Dreamweaver when I used to use it.

Does anyone else use it / had a play and what do you think?

M.
 
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I had a brief play, but promptly went back to visual studio. I'll give it another shot though when I don't have so much on... I'm keen to hear other people's view on it though.
 
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malef!c said:
Well, downloaded this from MSDN to have a play and to be honest its not bad.

Must admit I haven't used an editor for a while, trying to play with the writing of pages in Editplus but I think I like it better than Dreamweaver when I used to use it.

Does anyone else use it / had a play and what do you think?

M.

Yup - I really like it, however I was also a fan of FrontPage.
You won't get a great response on Expression here I don't think.
There are a hardcore bunch of people (as there are in every forum) who will tell you to write the code yourself.

I don't want to know how to code every single piece of a webpage.
I value my time and my time says that it is a lot easier and quicker to move things around and design my pages via a GUI and let somebody else worry about the main part of my code and I'll just do the minimal tidy-up required and still have a site which looks professional and works just fine in browsers.

I knew that FrontPage was being discontinued so I started playing with Expression in December when the first beta appeared.
I then took some time away from it as I had other things to get done, but just recently I grabbed a copy from our MSDN account and then subsequently purchased the FrontPage to Expression Web upgrade package.

It's as easy to use as FrontPage was (well it can be, it can also be a lot more complicated) however it is a lot more powerful.
I'm still getting used to what it can do and so far I've been more than impressed with it - and this is just version 1.
 
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Yeah, I think it's silly to write every little bit of HTML yourself, and I think its even more silly to dislike a program just because it has a WYISWYG section. IMHO there is really no sense in writing in a text-only program. Why not use a program that helps you and speeds up the development progress? I know that's what I'd much rather do :)

I think Dreamweaver is an awesome tool - but admittedly, I use the code section 99% of the time and the WYSIWYG section either for previewing code or making forms.

BUT... I disagree with you here :p
I don't want to know how to code every single piece of a webpage.
I value my time and my time says that it is a lot easier and quicker to move things around and design my pages via a GUI and let somebody else worry about the main part of my code and I'll just do the minimal tidy-up required and still have a site which looks professional and works just fine in browsers.
First off I think you SHOULD want to know how to code every single piece of a webpage! A good web developer should be able to make the exact same website without the help of a WYSIWYG editor, and only use the editor for the sake of convenience - not for the sake of not knowing how else to do it ;)

Also I think you should worry about the code in your web browser... make sure it keeps to standards, and re-write some of the bad code the WYSIWYG editor makes. It is much easier and faster to move things around a GUI, and yeah there's no problem doing that - but you always have to watch your code and keep it un-borked... Like dreamweaver might do this;
Code:
<div style="text-align: center;"><strong>Hello!<br>
<img src="blah.jpg"><br>
<br>
<br>
</strong><u>This is some random
text</u>
</div>
But it would look much better like this;
Code:
<div style="text-align: center;">
   <strong>Hello!</strong><br>
   <img src="blah.jpg"><br>
   <br><br>
   <u>This is some random text</u>
</div>

And then dreamweaver just has some ways of doing things that are, simply, bad and bloated... so I'd say you should always look through your code and give it a real good look over and keep to standards as much as humanly possible - rather than just saying "It works in browsers so it'll do" :p

Just my two cents ;)
 
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furnace said:
Yeah, I think it's silly to write every little bit of HTML yourself, and I think its even more silly to dislike a program just because it has a WYISWYG section. IMHO there is really no sense in writing in a text-only program. Why not use a program that helps you and speeds up the development progress? I know that's what I'd much rather do :)
Depends on the developer - certainly using a WYSIWYG program would be a much slower development process for me than writing it in a text-editor. I would think it's the same for many.

Personally, the main reason is that I can do quality control on a site while I'm writing it in a text-editor, while a WYSIWYG requires jumping back-and-forth after each revision. Just as your example shows, you have to revise the code generated by a WYSIWYG, when you could simply write it the one time in a text-editor. A WYSIWYG effectively doubles the workload for people who have a high level of code quality they're expected to meet. No automated tool can check the quality of a site's code as well as a human - it can do a simple syntax/validation check, but valid syntax does not automatically mean it's good quality code.
 
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Yeah I agree - each to their own, really. But with me, it's forms - I find it much quicker in Dreamweaver to use the WYSIWYG to make the basic form code. The styling of the form is done 'manually' though.

The rest of the site though, is also done by hand.

Like you say, WYSIWYG can't be trusted :p Good quality code is made by people not programs, but I find that using Dreamweavers tools for forms, then tidying it, is easier than filling out each <option value="blah">blah</option> for each <select>, for example :cool:
 

~J~

~J~

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Been using expression since the beta and not once has it failed me.

Does everything I want, although like stoofa, I was a die-hard frontpage fan. To me, expression is like VS2005 with a web add-on now. loved it.
 
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