Midi Controllers vs Keyboards

Masterdog

Masterdog

Masterdog

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Hi all,

So I'm thinking about getting a new keyboard. It's been a while since I've looked into what features keyboards have (my current keyboard proudly boasts its floppy disk drive). Having browsed this forum and music sites, I notice that midi controllers seem to be very popular.
As I understand them, midi controllers are essentially dumb terminals that plug into a PC and are simply a method of playing notes which are played through the PC's midi. What I don't understand is why they're so popular - MIDI usually sounds terrible, and there's no advice with it about buying a specialised MIDI card, high-end audio card or something similar.
I've probably got the wrong end of the stick somewhere, but can anyone explain to me why someone might want a midi controller as opposed to a traditional keyboard?

Cheers,

MD
 
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I have an m-Audio Oxygen8v2 midi controller for Reason on my mac. It's a basic 2 octave controller with additional knobs and buttons that can be mapped through MIDI to the dials on Reason. This allows you to twiddle the dials in realtime (important for analogue synths) and Reason will record the changes too. The Oxygen8 has velocity sensing on the keys too which is also passed through MIDI too.
These points complete change the experience compared to the basic computer keyboard input.

The controller has MIDI connection (you'll need additional power if you use this) however the better option is just to use the standard USB connector on the back as it will also take it's power from it. With the Mac there's no additional drivers required (but m-Audio have updated the OS driver set so in reality just do the update for it).

Straight MIDI controllers (like the Oxygen8) are usually just referred to as "Control Surfaces" because they don't have any sound generating capability.

A straight keyboard may be missing the MIDI mappable dials but you will have addition sound generating capability..

It's worth noting if you get a keyboard - MIDI out means it will provide output to a sequencer but you'll be stuck with the sound from the sequencer samples (not the keyboard's sounds). If there's MIDI in then the keyboard can be triggered by the sequencer to generate it's own sound (which may not be straight samples) rather than the samples.

So if you're just planning to use it for a sequence - go the MIDI controller route. If your thinking of using by itself or using the keyboard's output triggered by sequenced tracks then go with the keyboard.
 
Masterdog said:
What I don't understand is why they're so popular - MIDI usually sounds terrible,
I've probably got the wrong end of the stick somewhere,
Click to expand...

You're thinking about the old days where you linked the controller up to the soundcard and used the sounds that were built into the soundcard which were usually FM sounds.
The soundblaster AWE32 changed it by using sound from an EMU Proteus.
Nowadays there are 100s and 1000s of software synths that plug into sequencing software as VST (or DXi) plugins.
Virtually every major keyboard and sound has been emulated within these software synths.
There are loads of free software synths out there.
 
So MIDI controllers are used with synth software which plays the notes using its own synthesised sounds? How good do these sound?
(Sorry, this is quite alien to me - I only use MIDI for getting my keyboard to play things, rather than the other way round)
 
Masterdog said:
So MIDI controllers are used with synth software which plays the notes using its own synthesised sounds? How good do these sound?
(Sorry, this is quite alien to me - I only use MIDI for getting my keyboard to play things, rather than the other way round)
Click to expand...

They can sound superb, if you think about it all modern analogue "style" synths are emulating synth sounds so there is no reason why a PC can't sound as good or better than a hardware synth (apart from real analogue ones)
 
Actually here is an mp3 (which uses lossy compression - noticable on this example) of a few keystokes from my Oxygen8 with Reason 3. Also noting that the signal meters also hit the red too - thus some artifacts occur too.

Reason allows synths and effects to be combined in a multitude of ways thus all the odd effects going on in this mp3 are generated in addition to the main tune (I'm only using two fingers at any one time)..

http://www.adrenalin-junkie.net/tunes/untitled 2.mp3
 
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If you want a full uncompressed version I can upload a short snippit of the mp3 above so you can hear the full range - the problem is the full thing is 150MB!
 
Masterdog said:
So MIDI controllers are used with synth software which plays the notes using its own synthesised sounds? How good do these sound?
(Sorry, this is quite alien to me - I only use MIDI for getting my keyboard to play things, rather than the other way round)
Click to expand...
Oh boy - are you in for a treat once you discover what the latest softsynths are capable of! :)
 
Yup - it should be worth noting that the software synths nowdays actually create the waveforms and apply the maths of the effects etc to the wave forms in realtime rather than playing mere samples (although they are also capable of playing those too).
 
As above, keyboards (and the software they control) have come on a long way in 20 years :D

I came from using Logic Notator on the Atari ST back in the early 90s. I was just as confused as you about MIDI controllers - how can they not make any noise? But once you connect it up, load up your composition package, load your instrument and start playing the keyboard it all makes sense :) You can get extremely high quality piano synth instruments that will sound exactly like a grand piano, that will probably blow you away.

Now I use FL Studio on the PC, and have an Axiom 25 MIDI keyboard/controller connected via USB - no MIDI cables in my setup! I write music for a hobby, and have also made a few quid by composing music for games and exhibition events.

I wouldn't really recommend the Axiom 25 - it has a nice weighted keyboard but I'm fairly sure there's better models on the market. M-Audio stuff is solid. Go to a shop and have a feel of some keys. If you have space for a large keyboard, go for it.

Check out www.kvraudio.com which has VSTi (virtual instruments you can plug into Reason / FL Studio / Cubase etc.) searchable by price and type. I think getting good instruments is important - you must understand how they work, and of course like the sound they produce.

One thing to note is latency - this is the time between when you press down a keyboard key, and the synth actually playing out the speakers. It's not compulsory, but it helps to have a low latency soundcard to play or compose with a keyboard. With most soundcards (e.g. motherboard audio, older soundblaster cards etc.) the latency is quite high. I recommend an M-Audio Audiophile 2496, or an E-mu 0404, both of which can be acquired pretty cheaply.
 
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here is where i plug ableton

i love that program like a brother

even allot of the free synth vst plug ins etc are very very good these days.

most the boards you can just plug them into your pc with USB , i think the midi parts is if your linking it into an exsisting midi setup
 
Hmm still awaiting my free upgrade to Reason 4 (UK distrib are dragging their heals for everyone). One of the big updates is a complete rewrite of the sequencer..
 
dmpoole said:
I'm having real problems recording guitar/vocal tracks.
If you've got any tips then please pass them on.
Click to expand...

I don't record much audio, in fact I think I've only ever tried with a mic. Can you record any input? And what soundcard do you have?
 
caff said:
I don't record much audio, in fact I think I've only ever tried with a mic. Can you record any input? And what soundcard do you have?
Click to expand...

You are supposed to be able to record any input but sometimes it works and other times it doesn't.
I've been trying with an Audigy 2 and the top class Focusrite Saffire with no luck.
I've just had a Toneport KB37 but I haven't tried it yet.
 
Thanks for all the advice guys. I'd like to give this a try - are there any demo versions of this kind of software, and are there any decent tutorials? If not, what's the best software to learn on? Hopefully these'll be the last questions :)
 
MIDI Software
The mac is the home of many music programs. Here are some useful

1. Midikeys - free, turns your keyboard into a MIDI keyboard. Perfect if your on the move.

2. Propellerhead Software Reason & Recycle - software music rack (synths, drum machine, effects, sequencer). Free time limited trial - use midikeys if you don't have a control surface.
This actually creates the frequencies and applies effects based on triggers or sequencing - can also play samples.

3. Demo versions of Reaktor 5 etc

4. Demo versions of Ableton Live

5. The grandaddy - Cubase No free demo of this full on professional software but everyone will moan if I miss this out.

You forgot to mention ProTools.

Not that it's cheap, but there are versions (LE) that enable some first-time users to experience the program

... without shelling out thousands on hardware and software

http://www.digidesign.com



.. cut'n'pasted from the OSX software sticky.
 
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