Shame a lot of that doesn't exist today.
Mikhail Gorbachev, former Soviet leader, dies
- Thread starter [FnG]magnolia
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Shame a lot of that doesn't exist today.
He seemed like a sincere person and wanted to move beyond the Soviet Union vs the West. This also initiated the fall of the Berlin wall that was the divider between NATO and the Warsaw Pact.
But sadly when the Soviet Union went down a lot of corruption quickly took over, and not much (if anything) improved inside Russia.
It didn't help that Boris Yeltsin was the first President of Russia. He was a drunkard literally dancing around. A couple of years after he was President he had tanks sat outside the Russian Parliament. Putin was Yeltsin ally back then. Putin was Yeltsins final Prime Minister, and then become President himself.
But sadly when the Soviet Union went down a lot of corruption quickly took over, and not much (if anything) improved inside Russia.
It didn't help that Boris Yeltsin was the first President of Russia. He was a drunkard literally dancing around. A couple of years after he was President he had tanks sat outside the Russian Parliament. Putin was Yeltsin ally back then. Putin was Yeltsins final Prime Minister, and then become President himself.
Good riddance, shame a certain other Russian leader hasn't died yet though tbh...
I mean those are good things but it's kinda like congratulating Gerry Adams and Martin McGuinness for the NI peace process, good that they had some sense to agree to it but they were key players in perpetuating the problem in the first place.
I mean those are good things but it's kinda like congratulating Gerry Adams and Martin McGuinness for the NI peace process, good that they had some sense to agree to it but they were key players in perpetuating the problem in the first place.
RIP
Alone I set out on the road;
The flinty path is sparkling in the mist;
The night is still. The desert harks to God,
And star with star converses.
The vault is overwhelmed with solemn wonder
The earth in cobalt aura sleeps. . .
Why do I feel so pained and troubled?
What do I harbor: hope, regrets?
I see no hope in years to come,
Have no regrets for things gone by.
All that I seek is peace and freedom!
To lose myself and sleep!
But not the frozen slumber of the grave…
I’d like eternal sleep to leave
My life force dozing in my breast
Gently with my breath to rise and fall;
By night and day, my hearing would be soothed
By voices sweet, singing to me of love.
And over me, forever green,
A dark oak tree would bend and rustle.
Mikhail Yuryevich Lermontov (1841)
Alone I set out on the road;
The flinty path is sparkling in the mist;
The night is still. The desert harks to God,
And star with star converses.
The vault is overwhelmed with solemn wonder
The earth in cobalt aura sleeps. . .
Why do I feel so pained and troubled?
What do I harbor: hope, regrets?
I see no hope in years to come,
Have no regrets for things gone by.
All that I seek is peace and freedom!
To lose myself and sleep!
But not the frozen slumber of the grave…
I’d like eternal sleep to leave
My life force dozing in my breast
Gently with my breath to rise and fall;
By night and day, my hearing would be soothed
By voices sweet, singing to me of love.
And over me, forever green,
A dark oak tree would bend and rustle.
Mikhail Yuryevich Lermontov (1841)
до свидания
Once found very drunk, outside the Clinton White House on Pennsylvania Avenue by the Secret Service, wanting a pizza and trying trying to hail a cab while in only his underwear. And yet somehow, he doesn't seem that bad now....
Soldato
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Given all the other Soviet leaders that came before him I can't understand how anyone doesn't recognise Gorbachev for the brave man who changed the direction of the Cold War in a positive way. Rising to the top of the Communist Party in the USSR would be high wire act like rising to the top of a drug cartel, no one with perfectly clean hands would ever make it, and waiting for a pure hero in such a circumstance is a fools errand.
I for one will mourn his loss, the World seemed a far less dangerous place for his efforts than it did before them.
I for one will mourn his loss, the World seemed a far less dangerous place for his efforts than it did before them.
It was an amazing time back then to see the USSR dismantled. The West had been pushing them financially throughout the Cold War. Gorbachev could see they wouldn't win and couldn't keep up.
Credit to the combination of Gorbachev, Thatcher and Reagan for bringing about the dismantling of the USSR. It was Thatcher who first saw that the new leader, Gorbachev, was someone the West could "do business with". She managed to persuade Reagan and Gorbachev to meet but also persuaded Reagan that the US Star Wars Initiative was considered by the USSR to be a direct threat to them and had to be part of the arms reduction deal. Without the warming of relations coming from the summit, and the joint nuclear arm's reductions, I don't think any Soviet leader could have allowed the end of the USSR. It would probably have fallen eventually but the end that Gorbachev brought was at least peaceful and probably much sooner than it could have been otherwise.
Apparently Reykjavic was chosen by Reagan for the summit to cut Thatcher out of discussions. She was furious about it. The UK would have been the natural location for it. She blasted Reagan down the phone for cutting her out.
I have tried to explain the importance of that period to my kids. They kind of get it. Watching the Berlin Wall come down on TV was amazing. After the period of Cold War everything seemed like it had a bright future. I guess we were wrong about that. I also wonder what Russia would be like now if Yeltsin had not been their first leader.
No, Gorbachev wasn't perfect. As others have mentioned, he wouldn't have been able to become the leader of the USSR if he had been. But he definitely deserves a lot of respect for ending the USSR and, at least at the time, warming relations with the West.
RIP to Gorbachev and the final end to three very remarkable leaders, whatever people's personal opinions are of them.
Credit to the combination of Gorbachev, Thatcher and Reagan for bringing about the dismantling of the USSR. It was Thatcher who first saw that the new leader, Gorbachev, was someone the West could "do business with". She managed to persuade Reagan and Gorbachev to meet but also persuaded Reagan that the US Star Wars Initiative was considered by the USSR to be a direct threat to them and had to be part of the arms reduction deal. Without the warming of relations coming from the summit, and the joint nuclear arm's reductions, I don't think any Soviet leader could have allowed the end of the USSR. It would probably have fallen eventually but the end that Gorbachev brought was at least peaceful and probably much sooner than it could have been otherwise.
Apparently Reykjavic was chosen by Reagan for the summit to cut Thatcher out of discussions. She was furious about it. The UK would have been the natural location for it. She blasted Reagan down the phone for cutting her out.
I have tried to explain the importance of that period to my kids. They kind of get it. Watching the Berlin Wall come down on TV was amazing. After the period of Cold War everything seemed like it had a bright future. I guess we were wrong about that. I also wonder what Russia would be like now if Yeltsin had not been their first leader.
No, Gorbachev wasn't perfect. As others have mentioned, he wouldn't have been able to become the leader of the USSR if he had been. But he definitely deserves a lot of respect for ending the USSR and, at least at the time, warming relations with the West.
RIP to Gorbachev and the final end to three very remarkable leaders, whatever people's personal opinions are of them.
This.
In the late 1980's when the wall came down it was a time of freedom for the enslaved states of Europe under soviet rule since and before 1945. In retrospect he was unable to control the effects on Russia itself with Yeltsin and Putin succeeding him but the removal of the USSR's grip on the world was very significant.
Soldato
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I remember watching the TV that night, had just started studying for my professional exams and was at home with the TV on
(I am sure all my mates were hammered out of their heads lol)
Sitting there in shock at what was happening
(I am sure all my mates were hammered out of their heads lol)
Sitting there in shock at what was happening
Not only capturing the optimism of the time but so poignant with the twin towers in the background and the "twin towers" of Gorbachev and Reagan in the foreground. Only Bush Senior left now.I saw this picture - such a great photo, caputing the optimism. Sadly a lot has gone from that image now.
Soldato
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As someone born more or less as the Berlin wall came down, it's hard to understand how someone like Gorbachev or even Thatcher actually impacted the world. I only know about Thatcher because my father is such a fan, "she pulled the country up by its bootstraps."
You might want to sit down....
Soldato
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Ah, back when we had adults running the place who valued facts above feelings and believed in serving their countries instead of filling their pocket.
Oh man, the salt from Twitter tankies is absolutely glorious. I can't get enough! 
Well... that applies to Gorbachev. Not so much to Reagan and Thatcher, who privatised public assets for the benefit of their free market cronies.
Well... that applies to Gorbachev. Not so much to Reagan and Thatcher, who privatised public assets for the benefit of their free market cronies.
LOL, missed that one
He interviewed for it but they disliked his insistent usage of the Cyrillic Alphabet for the cheat codes, that and he just wasn't communist enough to work for channel four.
