Minibus Driving Test

Participant · 8 Nov 2010 at 14:58

Peerzy said:
Say I borrowed a minibus from work for a night out and got pulled - does this little certificate, my work insurance and my DL cover me?

Your work insurance probably specifies activities under employment only. No one here can possibly answer that unless someone here is responsible for administering your minibuses.

Peerzy said:
No one here knows anything about it

Well someone must know. Is there not a bursar or a secretary you can speak to?

It sounds like (guessing): DVLA licence change not needed as your normal driving licence just allows you to drive it anyway, the certificate is just a third party test to make sure you're not a spastic at minibus driving, and your work insurance you would not cover you for a night out unless it was part of an employee-arranged night out.

Dangerous Dave · 8 Nov 2010 at 14:58

Peerzy said:
So even though we have 20-30 people here who have passed this test none of them should be driving at all as it is 'for reward'?

If they all have a licence post January 1997 yes they are driving without a licence and insurance.

The other issue you will probaly have is a minibus with 16-23 seats is more than likely going to have a gross kerb weight over 3.5tons (a 15 seater transit is 3.7 tons) also unless you have the D1 entitlement you can't drive a minibus bus with more than 16 passanger seats even if it isn't for reward.

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/DriverLicensing/WhatCanYouDriveAndYourObligations/DG_4022619

DM · 8 Nov 2010 at 15:05

Surely there is a distinction between being a mini bus driver and sometimes driving a mini bus as part of a bigger job?

Peerzy · 8 Nov 2010 at 15:10

Robbie G said:
Your work insurance probably specifies activities under employment only. No one here can possibly answer that unless someone here is responsible for administering your minibuses.

Well someone must know. Is there not a bursar or a secretary you can speak to?

It sounds like (guessing): DVLA licence change not needed as your normal driving licence just allows you to drive it anyway, the certificate is just a third party test to make sure you're not a spastic at minibus driving, and your work insurance you would not cover you for a night out unless it was part of an employee-arranged night out.

I've emailed someone but I'm waiting for a reply.

Dangerous Dave said:
If they all have a licence post January 1997 yes they are driving without a licence and insurance.

The other issue you will probaly have is a minibus with 16-23 seats is more than likely going to have a gross kerb weight over 3.5tons (a 15 seater transit is 3.7 tons) also unless you have the D1 entitlement you can't drive a minibus bus with more than 16 passanger seats even if it isn't for reward.

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/DriverLicensing/WhatCanYouDriveAndYourObligations/DG_4022619

Think ours might be 16 seaters then, not sure about the weight though.

Peerzy · 8 Nov 2010 at 15:13

Think this covers me, minibus permit for education?

Dangerous Dave · 8 Nov 2010 at 15:16

DiamondMark said:
Surely there is a distinction between being a mini bus driver and sometimes driving a mini bus as part of a bigger job?

As soon as the employer asks you to drive the minibus and is paying you for your time it is classed as driving for reward. I do the odd driving for charity and they don't allow any paid workers to drive a minibus unless they have the D1 entitlement.

DM · 8 Nov 2010 at 15:17

Dangerous Dave said:
As soon as the employer asks you to drive the minibus and is paying you for your time it is classed as driving for reward. I do the odd driving for charity and they don't allow any paid workers to drive a minibus unless they have the D1 entitlement.

Didnt know that, i stand corrected

Fr0dders · 8 Nov 2010 at 15:22

Peerzy said:
Think this covers me, minibus permit for education?

that sounds like what you've got

This bit worries me though:

New drivers who passed their car test on or after 1 January 1997 may also drive a permit minibus provided the driver licensing conditions for those who do not have minibus entitlement are met.

Sounds like you need to take a DVLA D1 test as well as your minibus permit.

kefkef · 8 Nov 2010 at 15:28

Probably. Oh and the 'Hire or Reward' is also covered in DVLA leaflet INF28, Hire or reward encompasses any payment in cash or kind by (or on behalf of) passengers which gives them a right to be carried. As you are not receiving payment by (or on behalf of) the passengers i dont see a problem with that side of things.

Defcon5 · 8 Nov 2010 at 16:04

All this talk of being paid or being a bus driver is irrelevant - he is not allowed to drive a mini bus of this size, it doesnt matter why he is driving it.

No entitlement on license = not allowed to drive it

Fr0dders · 8 Nov 2010 at 16:05

Defcon5 said:
All this talk of being paid or being a bus driver is irrelevant - he is not allowed to drive a mini bus of this size, it doesnt matter why he is driving it.

No entitlement on license = not allowed to drive it

well strictly speaking

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/DriverLicensing/WhatCanYouDriveAndYourObligations/DG_4022619

If he's driving it on a voluntary basis you are exempt from needing a D1

But as already discussed, he is driving for reward, as he's being paid to do it by his employer. Unless he drives the kids outside of his normal work during unpaid hours (eg on a weekend or after school) then its for reward.

Participant · 8 Nov 2010 at 16:06

Defcon5 said:
he is not allowed to drive a mini bus of this size

Of what size? I can't see where he's said what size his minibus is? He doesn't seem to know himself.

Fr0dders · 8 Nov 2010 at 16:08

He's young so will only have Cat B + Cat B1 like me.

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/DriverLicensing/WhatCanYouDriveAndYourObligations/DG_4022547

Cat B entitles him to drive

Motor vehicles with a MAM of up to 3,500 kg, no more than eight passenger seats, with or without a trailer - weighing no more than 750 kg

He's already said that his minibus has a large number of seats and guessed 20 + first time round then said

Peerzy said:
Think ours might be 16 seaters then, not sure about the weight though.

whicih seems more likely.

But it isnt 8, so he needs a Cat D1 license as well.

Defcon5 · 8 Nov 2010 at 16:09

Robbie G said:
Of what size? I can't see where he's said what size his minibus is? He doesn't seem to know himself.

he said they are 17-23 seats

Fr0dders · 8 Nov 2010 at 16:12

he guessed. Its not a minibus with more than 16 seats its a Bus which requires a Cat D PCV license, the same you need for a proper bus.

Its for that reason that most Transit / Sprinter Minibus' are usually 16 seat. It wont be 23 seats.

Participant · 8 Nov 2010 at 16:26

Defcon5 said:
he said they are 17-23 seats

He also said:

Peerzy said:
Think ours might be 16 seaters then

Hence me saying he doesn't actually know.

Defcon5 · 8 Nov 2010 at 16:29

Ahh sorry mate, didnt see that.

Fr0dders · 8 Nov 2010 at 16:29

he doesnt, he's guessing. But who can blame him, i bet most wouldnt get in a minibus and start counting all 16 seats

But it will be 16 seats, as any more than that is classed the same way as a single decker bus as driven by Arriva / First etc.. and the school wont purchase one of them as nobody will be allowed to drive it.

Nor is there any point sending employees on a minibus driving scheme, as its not a minibus if its has more than 16 seats

Participant · 8 Nov 2010 at 16:36

You're right it's 90% going to be 16 seats.

But I disagree with the people saying he's driving for reward in this context, because he won't be receiving 'payment in cash or kind made by or on behalf of passengers that gives them right to be carried in a vehicle'.

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/DriverLicensing/WhatCanYouDriveAndYourObligations/DG_4022498.

I seriously doubt normal salary counts as remuneration for driving. It's surely got to be specific to the journey and end up in Peerzy's pockets.

Edit - 'If you passed your driving test on or after 1st January 1997 or if you regained a licence after this date you will have been awarded a B licence (car licence) you may only drive a minibus as a volunteer if you meet all of the following conditions:

•The minibus must weigh no more than 3.5 tonnes when fully laden (or 4.25 tonnes if it has accessible equipment such as a passenger lift)
•You are over 21 years of age
•You have held a full driving license for 2 years
•You must NOT tow a trailer
•You must NOT be in receipt of any payment (salary) or time off in lieu for the period you a driving the minibus.'

Arguably he wouldn't be in receipt of salary for the period he was driving, as it's out of office hours. I assume the school is not-for-profit.

InvaderGIR · 8 Nov 2010 at 16:36

MrLOL said:
But it isnt 8, so he needs a Cat D1 license as well.

D1 is just a certificate (that he now holds) so long as he is only using the work's bus for any work related use, be that socials, trips off site etc. so long as his passengers aren't paying him for driving the bus he is not being paid to use it, despite what Fox seems to think about being paid by work.

Quite a few friends are allowed to drive the university minibuses, but only the uni ones. Sounds like Peerzy is in the same situation, he has done his test for where he works and is allowed to drive the works minibuses, but nobody else's.

Robbie G said:
You're right it's 90% going to be 16 seats.

But I disagree with the people saying he's driving for reward in this context, because he won't be receiving 'payment in cash or kind made by or on behalf of passengers that gives them right to be carried in a vehicle'.

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/DriverLicensing/WhatCanYouDriveAndYourObligations/DG_4022498.

I seriously doubt normal salary counts as remuneration for driving. It's surely got to be specific to the journey and end up in Peerzy's pockets.

It doesn't, that's a load of cow poo.