MK1 Focus - Long time to start

BoozerDawg

BoozerDawg

BoozerDawg

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My sisters car, since she bought it, has always required quite a long time of cranking before the engine finally fires into action, with some assistance of pumping the throttle. Once up and running it seems absolutely fine, even better than my old Ghia I had which would stall now and then with air con on (doesn't in this one).

We (Me) have tried a few things to see if it would fix it, I have replaced all serviceable parts, cleaned the IAC and put a new gasket in, only ran with BP fuel and have put it through about 3 tank fills with Redex included. All pipes and hoses inspected and securely attached, but nothing seems to help the problem.

It happens pretty much any time you start the car, except for immediately after stopping the engine and firing it back up. With the hot weather recently, its been considerably worse, left out in the heat for 8 or so hours, the car takes about 6-7 seconds before it fires up (the starter seems good, always going fast), with the engine "grumbling" quite a bit which is sorted by again pushing the throttle. When it has these long cranks after the car has been sitting for a while, a big cloud of white smoke comes out the exhaust, but stops immediately after and no further smoke seen while driving.

Not quite sure where to go with it next, I'm thinking possibly fuel pump related or something to do with the fuel, but don't have anything to go on. (I believe the previous owner actually had the fuel pump replaced about a year or 2 ago). No CEL either.

Any ideas where to look next ? I was considering new HT leads or coil-pack, but I don't want to throw money at it without somehow verifying they are bad first, which I don't know how to do :p
 
Crank sensor? Don't know if it has one, but I had this problem with an old Astra and that solved it!
 
It does have one, looks easy to get at too and a cheap part to replace, so that was one idea I had (I changed the valve cover gasket recently too and had to disconnect it to allow an easy removal). I guess with it being a cheap part I could replace it and not worry if it doesn't fix the problem as barely any money has been spent, so I might give that a try.
 
BoozerDawg said:
It does have one, looks easy to get at too and a cheap part to replace, so that was one idea I had (I changed the valve cover gasket recently too and had to disconnect it to allow an easy removal). I guess with it being a cheap part I could replace it and not worry if it doesn't fix the problem as barely any money has been spent, so I might give that a try.
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May just be worth taking it out and giving it a clean. I had to change the seal on mine as it was a bit leaky and that sorted it!
 
Plugs and leads if you haven't already. My Focus started up a lot quicker with new plugs, the service interval on them is a bit optimistic. Could be a crappy ignition coil too.
 
The plugs, leads and ignition coil would cause running issues/misfire under load if they were faulty. I assume it runs OK once started?

It could be an iffy signal from the crankshaft position sensor.

Ideally you need to see if any fault codes have been generated.
 
If you've replaced the air filter etc, the first port of call for me would be to inspect the throttle body to see how the plate sits when closed and check if any carbon deposits are stuck to it. Then move onto things like the coolant temperature sender (for the ecu) and fuel trim, but you'll need an OBD tool for this.
 
An OBD reader can be had for about 6 quid from amazon or ebay
Ten just get the torque app for iphone/android :)
If its an iphone I believe you need a wireless OBD rather than the usual BT one
 
Torque will show what the ECU is seeing for coolant temperature, however it is rather limited. It doesn't display essential "pids" for more indepth diagnosis such as desired idle speed, desired throttle angle (for fly-by-wire throttles) or idle speed control valve position.
 
mushtafa said:
The plugs, leads and ignition coil would cause running issues/misfire under load if they were faulty. I assume it runs OK once started?

It could be an iffy signal from the crankshaft position sensor.

Ideally you need to see if any fault codes have been generated.
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Yeah, runs fine to me once its up and running, responsive as it should be.

Worth noting I did check the the throttle valve, didn't seem too bad but gave it a clean anyway (throttle cleaner + toothbrush), didn't make any difference sadly.

I was wrong about the crank sensor, the one I have easy access too is the cam sensor :p Trying to figure out where the crank sensor is exactly, I assume I would need to get the car up and have a look from underneath to find it and have easy access.

I do have the Torque app and a BT dongle which I used, and about 2 months ago it did have a code (reading the mixture as being too high), but after performing the service and resetting the code, it hasn't come back (air filter was a bit grubby). Annoyingly I can only use my brothers Nexus 5 for this as I ended up getting an iPhone 6 so would need a new dongle :p

A new coil pack and leads would be an easy thing to swap out, but its £45 from ECP for it all, and my sister wouldn't be happy if that didn't actually fix it :p Think I may need to take the crank sensor out when I can find it, clean it, see if it makes a difference.
 
I don't think pumping the throttle makes any difference in a car with fuel injection?
 
You said the fuel pump was possibly replaced a couple of years ago, does it make a decent, consistent brrrrrrrr sound as it primes? (when you first turn the ignition on, the pump should run for a few seconds and then stop).

She could try turning the key on/off say perhaps three times to prime the pump before she engages the starter motor - see if that makes any difference?
You could also try lightly crimping the fuel return pipe on the end of the fuel rail and see if that makes a difference, if it does then you'll need a new regulator.
 
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MatteH Oxford said:
You said the fuel pump was possibly replaced a couple of years ago, does it make a decent, consistent brrrrrrrr sound as it primes? (when you first turn the ignition on, the pump should run for a few seconds and then stop).

She could try turning the key on/off say perhaps three times to prime the pump before she engages the starter motor - see if that makes any difference?
You could also try lightly crimping the fuel return pipe on the end of the fuel rail and see if that makes a difference, if it does then you'll need a new regulator.
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Tried this, sounds normal while priming, sounds the same every time, nice and consistant, tried the 3 times then start trick, same grumbly start sadly :p Will have to try the crimp fuel line trick at some point.

Had a trip to scrappy today, thanks to a few front end done in Focus' I could easily see where the crank sensor is, so grabbed a couple, although it looks like a pain to get at while everything else is in place (starter, manifolds etc), will need to get under the car to see if access is easier at some point. Haynes manual doesn't really say much about access to it, just to jack up the front of the car. 1 tiny torx head bolt holding it in place. Will report back when I get around to it :)
 
Supposedly, but I have experienced incorrect gaps numerous times. From the odd one that has been physically altered whilst still in it's packaging, perhaps due to a drop or bash from another object, to all of them being incorrect.
Personally I always check plugs before fitting them.

Ford used to specify a 1.3mm gap on the early zetecs which was changed to 1.0mm, this was after cars suffering premature lead & coil failures.

I set them to 1.1mm on my own vehicles without experiencing any issues of note, it seems to be the best compromise.
 
Bit of an update on this. My sister ended up taking it to a local garage (one I trust), asked them only to diagnose the problem, no changing parts without asking her first.

They ended up replacing the coolant temperature sensor and all 4 spark plugs, stating that the car had been over fuelling due to the faulty temp sensor (I think she told me they said it was reporting a far higher temperature than the readings from some laser they had set on the sensor), so that they had to swap them out with the new sensor to make sure it was running correctly.

After that, they said the car starts quickly when starting and with a little tap on the throttle to fire it up. She reports it started up OK'ish when she left, but over the weekend when its been in use ...... nothing has really changed, it exactly the same. £98 down the drain it feels like.

Im going to ring them tomorrow and explain, she's obviously a bit miffed at being £98 with the car performing exactly the same, but does what they did above sound about right ? Would they really need to swap the spark plugs to go with the temp sensor (even though a fresh service was done with plugs from ford) ?
 
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