Moral dilema

Gavstar · 10 Apr 2006 at 23:26

OCdt Stringy said:
He means the people that were killed at the memorial lost nothing.

Apart from the opportunity to say farewell to a friend in what they thought a fitting way. Is it so different to a a group of yobs bursting into a funeral
and running amok (obviously not killing the attendees)?. I know that it can't be considered quite the same, but it is not inconcievable that a decent number of people there had got quite close to the deceased, and could be quite upset by it.

I don't think I'd ever feel inclined to participate in an online funeral, not really that much a fan of online gaming but I think this is pretty low - but also just what I'd expect given the size and diversity of the online community. I think that the people organising and attending this event should have known better, but its still pretty sad that someone did this.

Rich_L · 10 Apr 2006 at 23:30

I don't see it being any different to the memorial threads on OcUK to members who have sadly died, and I doubt it would be looked on too kindly if someone decided to start spamming the memorial threads.

Just because people meet over the internet doesn't mean they can't develop friendships and want to do something nice to remember them by.

I think it's pretty sad and disrespectful to do something like in the OP, why not just respect what other people are doing without getting your kicks out of ruining someone's day :confused:

Ah well.

Jumpingmedic · 10 Apr 2006 at 23:32

Tru said:
I realise a guy died in real life, and I hope his family and friends gave him a good send off. If these people who played the computer games with him wanted to show their respect, they could have gone to his funeral.

I'd be acutely embarrassed if some people decided to stage a twee memorial in some computer game for me, I'd actually be happy if some other people got a kick out of wrecking it.

These very forums had a considerable outpouring of compassion for Zoltan, a guy who died of cancer about a year or so back, as i expect you remember. I doubt many of the people on these forums attended his funeral, but many left their condolences on the forum. If i'd shown up and started spamming abuse do you think I should have been allowed to get away with that kind of outrageously insensitive behaviour?

I see no difference between that analogy and this WOW situation. Just because you consider MMORPGs to be lame does not give you the right to dictate the level of emotion some people have involved in them and the friends they make there. If that memorial was real to them then the gate crashers are no more than evil scum, deriving sick plasure from other people's misery.

The online world can be every bit as real as the real world when it comes to serious situations such as death. A death of one of my online friends would hit me as hard as an offline one, and if I thought that person would appreciate an online memorial then I would do all i could to ensure such a memorial.

You say you'd be embarrased..... i'm sorry, were you the guy who died? do you speak on his behalf? because if not who the hell gave you the right to say what he would or would not have wanted?

Gavstar · 10 Apr 2006 at 23:35

Rich_L said:
I don't see it being any different to the memorial threads on OcUK to members who have sadly died, and I doubt it would be looked on too kindly if someone decided to start spamming the memorial threads.

Good point, we have lost a few characters from these boards, Silverpaw and Zoltan springing to mind. While it is not a direct comparison, with the boards being a far better medium for a few kindly words to send the departed on their way, it wouldn't be quite as funny then would it? Whether it were it against the rules or not.

Stringy · 10 Apr 2006 at 23:36

Jumpingmedic said:
I see no difference between that analogy and this WOW situation

I see a massive difference between WoW and the forum. It is acceptable, under the rules, the eye of the law, and whatever, to kill whoever you feel like, whenever you feel like, on a PvP server. On this forum you are subject to the ever changing will of the Dons, and the rules stating spam etc is not allowed.

If I held a memorial on a PvP WoW server I would half expect it to be crashed, given the type of people on the internet. While I wouldn't say it was right, who is anyone to say it is wrong?

Jumpingmedic · 10 Apr 2006 at 23:38

OCdt Stringy said:
Computer Games don't = real life.

Gate crash a funeral and you're going to mentally scar people for life. Gate crash a MMORPG memorial and people will say "OMG llama!", be hacked off for a while, and then going back to being "l33t lvl 57 Orc Shaman" or whatever the hell the game has, and forget all about it.
The people forgot that it is a game, not a place to have a memorial, and subject to the rules, T&Cs, EULA or whatever of the software it is fully allowed and correct to gatecrash whatever the hell you feel like, screaming "LEEEEROOYYY JENNNNKINNNS" and kill everyone in sight.

So your saying people who play MMORPGs don't have real emotions? That if an online friend dies then they don't mourn the loss of their friend?

These people tried to do something nice for a friend of theirs who died... they tried to give him a memorial in a game he loved, it was a kind and compassionate act. You assume that to them this memorial was merely a stage in a game to them, that it meant nothing other than a marked deletion of a character. If you think that then I'd be amazed if you have a single friend at all.. online or in real life.

Tru · 10 Apr 2006 at 23:39

Jumpingmedic said:
You say you'd be embarrased..... i'm sorry, were you the guy who died? do you speak on his behalf? because if not who the hell gave you the right to say what he would or would not have wanted?

I don't think I said what he would or wouldn't have wanted. I, quite clearly, was speaking for myself. Correct me if I'm wrong.

I just don't see games as being as personal or having the same community feel as a forum. Maybe it's because I missed the whole MMORPG boat but to me it really is just a game. There is a certain accountability on this forum, as in real life, online gaming is more of a free for all, from what I've seen.

I think Gavstar hit the nail when he said they should have known better, this type of thing was bound to happen, it's the nature of the internet.

Gavstar · 10 Apr 2006 at 23:40

Both online and in the real world, you are allowed to do an awful lot that could seriously upset or offend another individual, but without any motive why would you want to?

At the end of the day maybe you have to wonder about people this 'in' to a game and its community, but you also have to wonder about people ruining something that a group of people thought would be a nice thing to do for a fallen friend

Jumpingmedic · 10 Apr 2006 at 23:41

OCdt Stringy said:
While I wouldn't say it was right, who is anyone to say it is wrong?

Kind people. A resource this planet sadly seems to lack.

I give up. You people trivialise the emotions of human beings just because they held a memorial for someone online.

Makes me wonder if any of you deserve to live, you have so little compassion for others why should i have compassion for you.

Rich_L · 10 Apr 2006 at 23:45

OCdt Stringy said:
While I wouldn't say it was right, who is anyone to say it is wrong?

Empathy? Morality? Common decency?

I really dislike the idea that morality has to be somehow legislated for to lend it legitimacy..pet hate of mine..

Stringy · 10 Apr 2006 at 23:48

Playing devil's advocate is fun

(albeit annoying for others)

I have to say I wouldn't have gatecrashed such an event given the opportunity, and I would frown at those that would consider it fun. I also wonder if there was a better place to hold an online memorial, perhaps somewhere less 'lawless'.

PikeyPriest · 10 Apr 2006 at 23:56

Firstly WOW is a role-playing game - NOT a version of real life. People play the game to escape real life, not to have to make ethical calls on whether to attack a gathering of players.

Having a funeral in a PvP zone is pure stupidity. If you watch the vid you will also see that nearly half of the funeral attenders are *SO* touched by the ceremony that they are actually AFK and dont respond even after the raid has been on for 20s. This leads me to believe they arent even in the room, let alone AFK.

Personally i think having a raid at a funeral is about as WOW as you can get and a touching memorial to the guy who died. I`m sure he watched that and laughed at his `friends` getting 0wn3d.

reflex · 11 Apr 2006 at 00:10

Imagine holding a funeral in a public CS server. Obviously somebody would connect and kill everyone. Personally if i died i wouldnt want a online funeral, that would kind of make a mockery of my life

AthlonTom · 11 Apr 2006 at 00:14

I joined a BF2 server the other day and got 8 kills before an admin shouted at me for interupting a few mins of non-play for a memorial. Wierd in a way, but if those people only new him through the game theres not any other ways to show your grief I suppose.

cleanbluesky · 11 Apr 2006 at 09:15

Jumpingmedic said:
Ummm... a guy died in REAL LIFE... not in the game. His friends gave him a memorial in the game that this guy loved. A perfectly reasonable and kind thing for a group of grieving friends to do.

Either you misread the OP or we just have such radically different views on compassion that I have nothing more to say to you.

It could be said that there is no more appopriate tribute than being probably the only character whose death is publicised all over the internet through this video...