More diving equipment advice...

cleanbluesky

cleanbluesky

cleanbluesky

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Following on from my last thread I have decided to purchase a Buddy Commando TD at the weekend... which will do me fine unless I get to a point where I want to do dual tank dives or whatever (if I want to do this I will just get a wing) but I am now confused about which regulator to get...

I have been recommended Apeks by two people so I am going to go with them... here is a set I might go for... I know that I need an a-Clamp because that is what we use but what are the DINs used for? Also, what is the difference between air ready and nitrox ready? If I get a nitrox one (in case I ever want to dive nitrox) would it be possible to also use it with air?
 
Buddy Commando Td is supposidly a good BCD, although i didnt find it confortable when in the water. i have a Mares Vector 1000. love it to bits.

Apeks is a good make, fairly basic so very little to go wrong. again however i dont like them. they are too big and heavy. i have oceanic regs, Delta 3 to be precise - deciding factor was the lifetime warrenty.

see here for DIN information. its basically just another fitting.

the nitrox ready ones will just be O2 cleaned, some makes/models may be slightly different in terms of what materials are used for O-rings etc. if you get a nitrox ready one then it will be fine for air.

ohh i suggest the first thing you buy at the dive show is a dive bag. that way you have something to carry all your stuff around in.
 
Nitrox ready (or nitrox clean) just means it's got o-rings that won't disintegrate with the additional oxygen content found in nitrox. Nitrox can slowly eat through non-nitrox o-rings in regs.

Haven't looked at your link for an apeks setup, but as stated in the other thread, I'm a long-term aprex user, and definately prefer them to other regs I have used whilst on hols etc. Nice, good, solid regs, cheap to service too (worth checking that out as you should get them serviced once a year).

Oh, incase I didn't directly answer the question, nitrolx-compat regs are absolutely fine with air. Most places also will supply either a-clamp or DIN tanks, DIN is used in high-pressure cylcinders typically, and require an o-ring on the first stage side, a-clamps rely on the o-ring as being part of the cylinder. I always have a couple of spare o-rings on the strap of my Stinger/dive watch.
 
Apex user here

Air is nitrox 21 (AKA EAN21) BTW, so Oxygen clean/serviced cylinders can contain it. However filling a O2 clean cylinder from a normal air compressor will invalidate the O2 cleaning of the tank and will require it to be recleaned which costs £ and takes time. so if you do by a clean tank you'll need to fill it from compatible air banks only, which is not much of a problem nowadays but its something you'll need to be aware of and would be covered in a Nitrox course.

DIN fittings are better than A clamps and most cylinder values are DIN with an screw in insert to enable them to take a clamp. Buy a DIN regs and if its going to be a proble buy an A clamp adaptor.

DIN is better cos it captures the O ring, so even if it extrudes it is still held around he seal minimising gas loss. DIN is better cos its smaller, less chance of catching on something whether on the boat or in the sea. DIN is better cos it is less damaging to the O ring, you'll rarely have to fumble for a spare on a freezing cold rocking boat minutes before slack.

Edit: Just looked at the reg you linked. The venturi adjustment is fairly pointless for nitrox use. As this gas is pretty dense and you'll just set it to max then forget about it. The breathing adjusment knob controls the flow of gas you breathe once you've 'cracked' the reg open. The only use I've ever made is to adjust between nitrox where its open all the way and Trimix where its closed all the way. Trimix is much less dense than nitrox so is very, very easy to breathe.

Buy the 300 Bar DIN. It is compatable with both 300 and 232 bar cylinders.
 
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Sleepy said:
Apex user here

Air is nitrox 21 (AKA EAN21) BTW, so Oxygen clean/serviced cylinders can contain it. However filling a O2 clean cylinder from a normal air compressor will invalidate the O2 cleaning of the tank and will require it to be recleaned which costs £ and takes time. so if you do by a clean tank you'll need to fill it from compatible air banks only, which is not much of a problem nowadays but its something you'll need to be aware of and would be covered in a Nitrox course.
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Good post BTW - but doesn't this apply to cylinders only and not regs - is there any disadvantage to getting nitrox regs...

DIN fittings are better than A clamps and most cylinder values are DIN with an screw in insert to enable them to take a clamp. Buy a DIN regs and if its going to be a proble buy an A clamp adaptor.

DIN is better cos it captures the O ring, so even if it extrudes it is still held around he seal minimising gas loss. DIN is better cos its smaller, less chance of catching on something whether on the boat or in the sea. DIN is better cos it is less damaging to the O ring, you'll rarely have to fumble for a spare on a freezing cold rocking boat minutes before slack.
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Okay, we use A-Clamps where I am diving but from what I have read it is better to get DIN...

Are there different types of DIN or would I be covered for almost everything if I get a DIN nitrox regs with adapter?

I have read that DINS are used for higher-pressure cylinders and that using an A-Clamp reg with adapter isn't recommended - I assume that since A-Clamp is lower pressure that using a DIN to a-clamp adapter would be fine...
 
cleanbluesky said:
but doesn't this apply to cylinders only and not regs - is there any disadvantage to getting nitrox regs...
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Technically it applies to both regs, cylinders, contents gauges, stabs etc. In reality the main issue is cylinder fires which do happen and as its the filler who takes the risk it is only fair to give them clean cylinders which are goiing to be filled with pure O2 under pressure.

As to regs apart from a few titanium regs most are perfectly happy being used to breathe pure O2. Some manufacturs moan about Oring replacement but thats mainly gouging more dosh from you. None of my apex regs have ever been O2 cleaned/serviced and they all have been used by me breathing pure O2 under pressure for long periods of time.
Okay, we use A-Clamps where I am diving but from what I have read it is better to get DIN...
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Dark ages
Are there different types of DIN or would I be covered for almost everything if I get a DIN nitrox regs with adapter?

I have read that DINS are used for higher-pressure cylinders and that using an A-Clamp reg with adapter isn't recommended - I assume that since A-Clamp is lower pressure that using a DIN to a-clamp adapter would be fine...
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Briefly covered in my post above but there are two types of DIN commonly used 232 bar and 300 bar. The threads are compatible but a 232 rated reg doesn't have a thread long enough to seal against a 300 bar cylinder so you cannot make a dangerous mistake. Conversely a 300 bar reg will screw into a 232 bar cylinder. A clamps are only rated to 232 bar (or less) so they don't manufacture 300 bar a clamp compatable cylinder values.
 
Sleepy said:
Technically it applies to both regs, cylinders, contents gauges, stabs etc. In reality the main issue is cylinder fires which do happen and as its the filler who takes the risk it is only fair to give them clean cylinders which are goiing to be filled with pure O2 under pressure.

As to regs apart from a few titanium regs most are perfectly happy being used to breathe pure O2. Some manufacturs moan about Oring replacement but thats mainly gouging more dosh from you. None of my apex regs have ever been O2 cleaned/serviced and they all have been used by me breathing pure O2 under pressure for long periods of time.
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Okay, it seems you've answered the rest of my questions - but I still dont understand the issue with cleaning -

should a person have seperate sets of equipment for either air or nitrox - or just seperate cylinders using the same regs, jacket etc.... I think you've understand the rationale behind this but I don't quite understand...
 
apeks here as well, ATX50 2nd stage and atx40 octo.

Couldn't see the point of going higher up the range, just more things to go wrong ;)

Top BCD by the way, very nice in the water.
 
The_blue said:
apeks here as well, ATX50 2nd stage and atx40 octo.

Couldn't see the point of going higher up the range, just more things to go wrong ;)
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I don't really understand what the extra features are - if someone can explain them I would be grateful...

I just figured that the top of the range would be best for something that would last throughout my diving career...
 
cleanbluesky said:
Okay, it seems you've answered the rest of my questions - but I still dont understand the issue with cleaning -

should a person have seperate sets of equipment for either air or nitrox - or just seperate cylinders using the same regs, jacket etc.... I think you've understand the rationale behind this but I don't quite understand...
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For a piece of dive kit to be used with Nitrox it must be oxygen cleaned and oxygen serviced.

Oxygen cleaned means that it is clean enough to be exposed to high pressure O2. Oxygen serviced means parts such as o rings, seals, seats, filter, lubricants, greases etc are compatible with exposure to high pressure O2.

Obviously if an item isnot going to be exposed to high pressure O2 then it does not need the above. However certain items are exposed.

Cylinders - the main way of blending a mix is to first add the a certain amount of oxygen, this is added at pressure so therefore the cylinder and cylinder valvue must be both O2 cleaned and serviced. (As an aside certain methds of blending do not use high pressure O2 so they can fill standard cylinders safely) Once done a cylinder becomes unclean if filled from a single filtered compressor ie a normal compressor, fill nitrox cylinders from 'clean' compressors.

Regs are exposed to high pressure oxygen only if the diver is using a rich mix to deco from. So as a rec diver this is something you can ignore. Most regs donot require anything doing to them to safely use any mix upto 40% (and arguably higher) For regs exposed to deco mixes some divers will get have their regs O2 cleaned/serviced. Some will also ensure that the contents gauge is compatible with high pressure O2 cos unlike a reg which is only partially exposed to high pressures, a contents gauge is fully exposed to the pressure contained within the cylinder.

Likewise with stabs/suits/thinsulates you wont expose them in normal usage to high pressures of O2 so they wont need anything doing to them. Only in extremis would you fill your suit/stab from a deco bottle.

Edit: So to answer your question as a rec diver you'l only need one set of kit which you can use with any mix though with the cylinder fill caveat mentioned above.

If your diving becomes more technical you'll end up with more kit and you may well end up with deco only regs/cylinders but that isn't an issue for you yet.
 
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cleanbluesky said:
I don't really understand what the extra features are - if someone can explain them I would be grateful...
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I've described the breathing adjustment knob in post 5 though I've just realised I called it the wrong name . The venturi adjustment is a lever mounted where the hose enters the body of the 2nd stage. It basically rotates the hole through which the mix enters the chamber of the reg. Simply put it alters how much effort you need to start the reg flowing. Once you've cracked the reg open it does not effect the flow of gas that you breathe. Set it at a level which you find comfortable then forget about it. It's also used on regs to stop them freeflowing when they are under pressure but not being used by you to breathe from, such as a deco/stage reg. Or your octopuss reg (short hose reg etc)
I just figured that the top of the range would be best for something that would last throughout my diving career...
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Thats what I did when I switched from poseidons to apex, though the top of the range then was TX50's.
 
cleanbluesky said:
its best to use two cylinders, one for nitrox and one for air
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Not anymore, its generally pretty easy nowadays to get clean air so you wont need a dedicated cylinder. You just have to be aware of what you put into your nitrox tank.

Look at this page especially the images at the bottom for what can happen if a cylinder fails whilst being filled.
 
The answer to that depends on how much nitrox diving you intend to do!

I don't recall (without trolling back) what experience you have or what level of diving certification you currently have, but you are possibly talking about semi-technical things that frankly won't be of concern.

I'm guessing by the mere fact of your enquiry that you are relatively new to the sport? It's probably the sort of thing you should be discussing face to face with an instructor, although I applaud you for trying to find out reliable info from the interweb first :)
 
Sleepy said:
Buy a DIN regs and if its going to be a proble buy an A clamp adaptor.
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have to dissagre with that. if A-clamp is used most of the time then buy A-clamp regs. haveing the adaptor these is bulky and more things to go wrong.

it depends where you dive really. abroad a-clamp is mostly used and not all dive shops have the tanks with the removable section to make them DIN, and the ones that do arnt too pleased to have to remove them each time.
 
Luke284 said:
have to dissagre with that. if A-clamp is used most of the time then buy A-clamp regs. haveing the adaptor these is bulky and more things to go wrong.

it depends where you dive really. abroad a-clamp is mostly used and not all dive shops have the tanks with the removable section to make them DIN, and the ones that do arnt too pleased to have to remove them each time.
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The adaptor is no more bulky than having an a clamp fitting reg, as for things to go wrong its merely one extra captured oring which in the unlikely event its going to fail will most likely go on charging the system.

As to his club I doubt that many of their cylinders don'y use DIN valves with insert anyway. Abroad I've never had a problem with taking out the insert when required.
 
using a DIN to A-Clamp adaptor is very bulky. just enough to have issues with banging my head on the 1st stage.

i do agree that DIN is technically a better system, however i have A-clamp as i dive in areas where this is more common. if i dived mainly in the UK or any other DIN mainstream country then i would get my regs converted to DIN.

abroad things do run much more smoothly when everyone uses the same system. i have lead dives where ive seen people try and fit a A-clamp reg to a tank that has had the insert taken out for the DIN users. (these people should be banned from diving) even witnessed a guy trying to fit a DIN reg to an A-clamp tank. - going off topic a bit now though...

cleanbluesky - it may be useful to let us know where, how often you dive etc. and where you see your diving going in the future.
 
I realy should get back into scuba, did a padi advanced open water diver course back when I was at school (wanted to do BSAC but non in area at time).
bit cold down here atm for it, maybe I'll have to move to austrailia first!
 
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