More teacher strikes

Nitefly

Nitefly

Nitefly

Man of Honour
Joined
24 Sep 2005
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Just saw this on the Beeb.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-27100733

The bit that caught my attention was this:

TEACHERS' WORKING HOURS

The Department for Education gathers an annual survey of teachers' term-time working hours
  • Primary classroom teachers: 59.3 hours per week
  • Secondary heads: 63.3 hours per week
  • Secondary classroom teachers: 55.7 hours per week
  • Much of this work was out of school, either before 8am, after 6pm or at weekends
  • Primary classroom teachers worked 23.8 hours per week out of school
  • Secondary heads worked 21.5 hours per week out of school
Click to expand...

Like everyone else from the private sector universe, I can't help but be slightly skeptical over these claims... those are, relatively, pretty long hours. I assure you though, they could be a lot worse *cries*.

Three parts to this thread then:

1. Do teachers really work that hard during term time? Input from all experiences welcome!

2. Do teachers get a bad deal overall? I'd say they get a fair deal. I can imagine it being quite a tricky job at times. The pay isn't too modest and they get an astonishing amount of holiday. Even then, whilst their pension contribution does cut substantially into their paycheck, they get a much better contribution from the government than most private employers. So overall, not great, not bad. Fair. Do it if you have a passion for it.

3. Is striking the best way to go about it? I haven't put much thought into this one so I'll reserve judgement for now.

Post your thoughts!
 
1) yes. They do insane amounts of work at home, the ones that don't are generally the ones who have given up and don't care, they should be fired anyway.
2) yes they get a bad deal, isn't helped by the common perception it's a walk in the park, short work hours and long holidays, which couldn't be further from the truth. a lot don't realise what they've signed up for.

3) striking is rarely a good way to deal with anything.

What they heed is new ways to do lesson plans, implement new guidelines, dedicated markers etc. It's all the other things other than teaching. That take so much time. Or more teachers and so teachers have more "free periods" to do lesson plans, marking etc.
Marking takes so bloody long it's unbelievable.
 
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Three of my friends are teachers, one primary and two secondary.

Do they work those hours? Yes, but bear in mind those are average, they can be a lot higher.

Do they get a fair deal? I don't know, I haven't done the maths, but you also need to remember that to be a qualified teacher you need a degree and a post graduate qualification. That needs to be factored into the pay analysis.

Like Glaucus says, striking rarely solves anything.
 
I don't think anyone can judge how hard or easy a job is till that person actually do some work on the said job sector for some time.

My wife is a Primary classroom teacher, works harder than any one I know. Gets stressed over things that seem trivial to me, but they are important to her.
 
Avathar77 said:
I don't think anyone can judge how hard or easy a job is till that person actually do some work on the said job sector for some time.
Click to expand...

I disagree on that one. You can know enough about a job to make an opinion on it without actually having done it. You just need to do a bit of research.
 
My next door neighbor is a teacher and she takes every opportunity possible to go on holiday even in term time. She does work on a night and some weekends when she has marking to do but thats it really. I think the fact that she gets 12 weeks holiday a year more than makes up for it. Lets not forget if you are a teacher and have kids you don't have child care issues to sort out in the hols.
 
None of the teachers I know (more than a dozen) do anywhere near those kind of hours...My wife's cousin who is a deputy head left the NUT because of the constant striking and joined the AFT instead...she says that some teachers put in loads of hours, but normally that is at the beginning of their careers and as soon as they have a few years under their belt they have enough material and their time management is such that they are back to working under 40 hours a week on average.

She works an average 45 hour week and earns £55k a year as a deputy head of a mid sized comprehensive and says she wouldn't swap it for the world.
 
Burnsy2023 said:
Do they get a fair deal? I don't know, I haven't done the maths, but you also need to remember that to be a qualified teacher you need a degree and a post graduate qualification. That needs to be factored into the pay analysis.
Click to expand...

What do you mean by that? I don't think going to university should necessarily give you any pay boost.
 
Easter Monday, and I know 3 people who are working in our school (and we only have ~20 staff), and I'm many of those who aren't in school will be doing plenty of work today. I'm not even a teacher, and I've been working for much of these holidays (of which it's meant to be a holiday).

As for Ofsted, our head is head of 2 schools. She had 2 inspections within a month. ****ing harsh.
 
I'm not going to go into to much detail as don't particularly want to get to embroiled in the discussion, but here we go.

I'm currently in my first year of teaching in a Primary school class, this is the NQT year which granted, is usually seen as being hard work. But even so...

I get into work at 7:20 am and from walking through the door don't really stop until 12:50 when I get 20 mins for lunch to 1:10. Obviously the teaching day ends at 3:30, but I'm usually in school until at least 6:15, Wed and Thurs this is often later as school is open late.

I go home and have 40 mins for dinner and then start work again at either 7.00 or 7.30, usually working through to 9.30pm.

I then stop although I could easily go on, watch TV for an hour and go to bed, ready to start again the next day.

I do that 5 days a week. I then work Saturday, at the moment that is about 10.00am to 5.30pm, planning, marking and paper work ready for the next week.

I try to have Sunday off.

I consistently have a list of jobs as long as my arm that I cannot possibly, physically get done within the hours of the day, let alone between 8-6 working day.

It is ridiculous. I do all that and it is not as though I am finding the job enjoyable. It is SO pressurized. Children are just number on a spread sheet and I am accountable for making sure each and every 1 of my 32 children make progress. If they do not I am 100% responsible for this lack of progress.

When not teaching in the classroom or wading through the above described work then life in school feels pretty bleak. Countless Staff Meetings which are ALL centered on making our teaching 'outstanding' according to Ofsted, not merely 'good'. Day in day out we are told that we need to do more, do x, do y, do z in order to make our teaching outstanding. This is on top of the workload.

I can work every hour of the day and night, but at the end of the day even that means diddly-squat, if my teaching is not 'outstanding' and my children and not making sufficient 'progress'.

Not going to go into much more detail as I don't feel I need to justify my position. I know the hours I work and the energy, commitment and effort I put into my job. I also feel like I'm being treated like a lifeless automaton by the Gov, Ofsted and school management and that working conditions currently for teachers is... pants.
 
I'm a new NQT just finishing my first year, nothing has prepared me for the truth of what teaching actually is - even though my Mum and Sister are both teachers and both tried to talk me out of it.

The time in the classroom is not even a quarter of the time I spend working from my experience, I teach a 80% timetable (due to increase to 90% next year) which means I am teaching over 350 students every two weeks, 38 hours of teaching contact time every two weeks. Now this is far from the whole story as I am also expected to plan those lessons in my own time, now at a rate of about 30 minutes per lesson that's an additional 19 hours of planning time per every two weeks. On top of that I have to mark all of my students work three times every half term (so lets average that at about 5 sets per week where a set will be at least 2-3 hours depending on the year group). On top of that there are the mandatory meetings, which is at least 3 hours per week, and then parents evenings. Now I haven't even got to the additional work in helping students on a one to one basis - I do two lunchtimes, and one evening session of 2 hours, then on top of that I do a science club to try to encourage the younger years to want to continue. I haven't included the time required to produce truly excellent lessons where you want to pull out all the stops, nor have I counted the time required to write reports or do parents evenings.

On a basic determination:

19 hours of teaching
10 hours of preparation
5 hours of science preparation before school
15 hours of marking
4 hours of meetings
4 hours of interventions
2 hours of A-Level revision

At a basic of 59 hours per week, now on my salary this works out to be less than £10 per hour for me to look after students, teach up to A-Level physics with my own qualifications of a first class masters and phd in quantum physics.

Teaching has its great moments, but for every one of those most people find an additional 20 rubbish ones.

Now I don't actually support the strike, and I am always in school on the strike days to get additional work done (my union is a non striking union - the reason I chose them), but I do feel that teachers do get somewhat of a raw deal. Not to mention that because every single adult has been through a school of some kind they feel it gives them adequate qualification to talk about 'how easy' teachers have it, until you do it yourself people have no idea!
 
Its impossible to discuss this without knowing the salaries.

http://media.education.gov.uk/assets/files/pdf/s/130806 2013 stpcd master final.pdf

Basic
England Min: £21,804
England Max: £31,868
London Min: £25,369
London Max: £36,751
Unqualified is about £6k less

Upper pay scale
England Min: £34,523
England Max: £37,124
London Min: £37,975
London Max: £45,450

Leading Practitioners
England Min: £37,836
England Max: £57,520
London Min: £40,838
London Max: £64,677

Additional Responsibilities:
1) +£7,397 to +£12517
2) +£2,561 to +£6,259
3) +£505 to £2,525
Special Needs specialist: +£2,022 to £3,944

Head Teachers:
England Min: £42,803
England Max: £106,148
London Min: £45,805
London Max: £113,303


Also, you get the standard private sector style pay motivators for doing extra work, and recruitment bonus':
40.1 Subject to paragraph 40.2, the relevant body may make such payments as they
see fit to a teacher, including a head teacher, in respect of:

(a) continuing professional development undertaken outside the school day;

(b) activities relating to the provision of initial teacher training as part of the
ordinary conduct of the school;

(c) participation in out-of-school hours learning activity agreed between the
teacher and the headteacher or, in the case of the head teacher, between
the headteacher and the relevant body;

(d) additional responsibilities and activities due to, or in respect of, the provision
of services by the headteacher relating to the raising of educational
standards to one or more additional schools.

40.2 Paragraph 40.1(d) does not apply to the provision of services by a headteacher to
a school in relation to which such headteacher has been appointed either on a
permanent basis in accordance with paragraph 11.5 or on a temporary basis.
Recruitment and retention incentives and benefits
41.1 Subject to paragraph 41.2, the relevant body or, where it is the unattached
teacher’s employer, the authority, may make such payments or provide such other
financial assistance, support or benefits to a teacher as it considers to be
necessary as an incentive for the recruitment of new teachers and the retention in
their service of existing teachers.

41.2 Where the relevant body or, where it is the unattached teacher’s employer, the
authority, is making one or more such payments, or providing such financial
assistance, support or benefits in one or more cases, the relevant body or authority
must conduct a regular formal review of all such awards. The relevant body or
authority should make clear at the outset the expected duration of any such
incentives and benefits, and the review date after which they may be withdrawn

Average UK graduate salary: £29,900
Average teaching salary: £32,500

Add in their extra holiday, and teachers are hardly poorly paid for their effort.
 
GJM said:
I'm not going to go into to much detail as don't particularly want to get to embroiled in the discussion, but here we go.

I'm currently in my first year of teaching in a Primary school class, this is the NQT year which granted, is usually seen as being hard work. But even so...

I get into work at 7:20 am and from walking through the door don't really stop until 12:50 when I get 20 mins for lunch to 1:10. Obviously the teaching day ends at 3:30, but I'm usually in school until at least 6:15, Wed and Thurs this is often later as school is open late.

I go home and have 40 mins for dinner and then start work again at either 7.00 or 7.30, usually working through to 9.30pm.

I then stop although I could easily go on, watch TV for an hour and go to bed, ready to start again the next day.

I do that 5 days a week. I then work Saturday, at the moment that is about 10.00am to 5.30pm, planning, marking and paper work ready for the next week.

I try to have Sunday off.

I consistently have a list of jobs as long as my arm that I cannot possibly, physically get done within the hours of the day, let alone between 8-6 working day.

It is ridiculous. I do all that and it is not as though I am finding the job enjoyable. It is SO pressurized. Children are just number on a spread sheet and I am accountable for making sure each and every 1 of my 32 children make progress. If they do not I am 100% responsible for this lack of progress.

When not teaching in the classroom or wading through the above described work then life in school feels pretty bleak. Countless Staff Meetings which are ALL centered on making our teaching 'outstanding' according to Ofsted, not merely 'good'. Day in day out we are told that we need to do more, do x, do y, do z in order to make our teaching outstanding. This is on top of the workload.

I can work every hour of the day and night, but at the end of the day even that means diddly-squat, if my teaching is not 'outstanding' and my children and not making sufficient 'progress'.

Not going to go into much more detail as I don't feel I need to justify my position. I know the hours I work and the energy, commitment and effort I put into my job. I also feel like I'm being treated like a lifeless automaton by the Gov, Ofsted and school management and that working conditions currently for teachers is... pants.
Click to expand...

So true, it reads like my life at the moment!
 
I just don't understand why they go on strike every year. We go through the same argument every year. Then they settle and they strike again.

Do they want more money? Is it about money? Is it about the hours?

As for pressure, that's not a reason, every job has it's own pressure.
 
Our classroom teachers should be the best of us. I'd happily have their wages tripled if it meant attracting and keeping creative, intelligent and passionate individuals into a job that is supposed to be nurturing our children.

Also, Gove is a perfect idiot.
 
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