Mortgage Rate Rises

[kona786]

The product fee covers the legal/valuation etc. Conveyancing is still done, sometimes a proper valuation too.

It's still significant. Usually 1k?
It was 1k for me.

That's a lot when interest otherwise is 1-2 pounds a day.

I'm pretty sure your getting your wires crossed.

There's no need for all that on a simple remortgage without extra borrowing. Maybe a conveyancing cost if you don't agree with their standard book valuation.

And with extra borrowing then you just get reassessed by the bank with income proof.

No legal fees unless you move property.

I did my remortgage with nationwide with zero extra costs and no product fee at all.

 

[grudas]

we've just started 3 year fixed on 1.99 so hoping it'll be better by the end of that.

 

[Sheff]

Exactly.
Most people, the vast majority, probably 99% have to make sacrifices on what they get.
I mean location, size, rooms, outside space, garages, driveways, distance to neighbours, gas/electric, other services, crime, job opportunities, road access

So many factors people are taking into account. Pretty much all of which fall under wants not needs.

Otherwise I will take a central london mansion with a couple of acres for £100k please (This doesn't even exist outside buckingham palace)

My first house was a 2 up 2 down, literally. It had been extended (2 storey) at some point to add a kitchen and bathroom, but until that point it was 4 rooms with fireplaces and that was it.
I suspect early on it had more than 1 family living there, it was attached to a pretty large house and we believe the house we had was for people who worked for the main house. It was pretty old 1890s

Oh it had a nasty cellar as well. We believe this was where the coal for the main house was delivered as that didnt have a cellar

A 2 up 2 down where I'm located is about 200k (I think there's one or two advertised for around 165k but they need major work), I work in the public sector so the sensible thing to do is move to a different location where costs are lower but the pay is the same.

The problem with this is that the public sector in the South West is seeing a decrease in 25-30s entering the workforce (at the same time those born in the 60s are retiring) in addition to people moving to other parts of the country after completing their training or qualifications so recruitment and retention is becoming very difficult. The diaspora also means that children aren't able to support parents in their old age, further increasing dependence on social care for a region that is at the front of the aging population curve.

We're also starting to see prices rise in the country elsewhere due to the exodus of people who are priced out of the South, making it more difficult for people in those communities to get on the housing ladder - causing a ripple effect.

 

[Concrete]

I've just started year 3 of a 30 year fixed at 2.1%, don't understand why banks in the UK don't offer lifetime mortgages?

Flip side is the 10% property sales tax you pay on property each and every time you move :|

 

[413x]

I'm pretty sure your getting your wires crossed.

There's no need for all that on a simple remortgage without extra borrowing. Maybe a conveyancing cost if you don't agree with their standard book valuation.

And with extra borrowing then you just get reassessed by the bank with income proof.

No legal fees unless you move property.

I did my remortgage with nationwide with zero extra costs and no product fee at all.

Did you stay with the same lender? There are no fees for that.

ReMortgage with another lender is why I have the fees.

 

[fez]

It is, but mainly because of landlordism. Homes here are seen as investments. The more expensive they are, the better for landlords because it stops other people getting on the ladder, stops people being able to buy - so they are forced to rent. Which means they can command whatever rent they want. So not-only can they charge extortionate rents, but their assets increase in price as well over time. It's pretty disgusting if you think about it. A roof over your head is a basic human right, yet here it is seen as something to make money out of.

You make landlords sound like some organised cartel. They are just greedy people who can make easy money from it. There isn't much thought put into it other than the fact that its an amazing investment for what is a tiny outlay.

Imagine putting a 10% deposit down on a house worth £300k. You sit on that for 25 years and you would probably have an asset worth over a million quid that is also completely paid off and you are still getting enough every month in rent to live off. £30k -> £1m + an income.

I personally think there should be far stricter controls on rental properties to avoid them be so lucrative and attractive to people who see them only as an investment. Thats another discussion though.

 

[fez]

I've just started year 3 of a 30 year fixed at 2.1%, don't understand why banks in the UK don't offer lifetime mortgages?

They sound like a pretty poor idea that would just lead to even more inflated house prices. How do early repayment fees work, how does it work when you want to move houses 3 times over your lifetime etc?

 

[Concrete]

They sound like a pretty poor idea that would just lead to even more inflated house prices. How do early repayment fees work, how does it work when you want to move houses 3 times over your lifetime etc?

You can repay up to X% on top of your fees without penalty, over that they make it uneconomical to do so.
When you move house here, its a little bit different (and chaotic). All the parties meet up in a neutral (paid) office location and an official transfers money to pay off outstanding mortgage from the sale of the property before the deeds are handed over.

 

[kona786]

Did you stay with the same lender? There are no fees for that.

ReMortgage with another lender is why I have the fees.

Same lender, different lender makes no difference.

A mortgage renawal is in general 'zero fee' as the lender takes on the cost of transfer (if changing lenders. same lender is free regardless) I've just spoken to my sister who is a mortgage advisor to confirm.

My mortgage for example was zero cost @ 1.19% for 5 Yr. If I wanted the 0.98% the I'd have had to pay a £1k product fee. That's all, no extra fees.

 

[Semple]

I would say most first time buyers aren't, that's my point. You're probably right when considering home movers. Im focussed on FTB because they are the ones likely to be most stretched and vulnerable to having massive recent mortgages.

Its unreasonable to set the bar on need at a 1 bed flat and everything else is indulgence. Like was said above, where do you stop. Cars are important, parking is important. That is not me just saying so, it is quantifiably objectively important. Problem is many houses don't have it, that is a problem with the housing stock quality not the needs/wants of people.


Ok. I still argue that at the lower end of FTB range there is a rather stark quality boundary that you cross through if you drop budget too low and so it is unreasonable to suggest those people should have bought cheaper.

Plenty of people have had this debate with you on this forum in the past. Wants and needs are very black and white.

Parking may be important, but there's millions of houses up and down the country that don't have driveways and they make do with parking their car(s) nearby.
- The need is parking somewhere within walking distance from your home.
- The want is being able to park on a driveway right outside your front door

You're not going to find many people who will say they'd prefer to park on a nearby road versus parking on a driveway. Both satisfy the requirement of being able to park near your home, but the parking on a driveway is simply a luxury, and luxuries will cost more.

 

[413x]

Same lender, different lender makes no difference.

A mortgage renawal is in general 'zero fee' as the lender takes on the cost of transfer (if changing lenders. same lender is free regardless) I've just spoken to my sister who is a mortgage advisor to confirm.

My mortgage for example was zero cost @ 1.19% for 5 Yr. If I wanted the 0.98% the I'd have had to pay a £1k product fee. That's all, no extra fees.

But you are paying those fees. The conveyancing has to be paid for. I was under the impression the fees were either rolled into the rate (no fee higher rate) or paid outright (fee lower rate)

Same way free postage isn't really free postage?


A separate company is doing my conveyancing. So they have to paid by my lender to do that work?


With same lender this fee isn't there at all. No valuation is done. No legal work needed. No credit searches etc etc. Thus the fee is absent.

 

[Sheff]

Plenty of people have had this debate with you on this forum in the past. Wants and needs are very black and white.

Parking may be important, but there's millions of houses up and down the country that don't have driveways and they make do with parking their car(s) nearby.
- The need is parking somewhere within walking distance from your home.
- The want is being able to park on a driveway right outside your front door

You're not going to find many people who will say they'd prefer to park on a nearby road versus parking on a driveway. Both satisfy the requirement of being able to park near your home, but the parking on a driveway is simply a luxury, and luxuries will cost more.

It'll soon be a need once the switch from ICE to EV is complete - which many are factoring in now. Perhaps it'll switch back to a want once households can no longer afford to buy and run more than one vehicle again, allowing more people to park outside their house (it'll still need to be a house in a lot of cases).

 

[kona786]

But you are paying those fees. The conveyancing has to be paid for. I was under the impression the fees were either rolled into the rate (no fee higher rate) or paid outright (fee lower rate)

Same way free postage isn't really free postage?


A separate company is doing my conveyancing. So they have to paid by my lender to do that work?


With same lender this fee isn't there at all. No valuation is done. No legal work needed. No credit searches etc etc. Thus the fee is absent.

Nope.

If say NatWest had the exact same deal I got with Nationwide (current/previous lender) they'd both cost me the same to do. I'd have to pay nothing extra to go with NatWest. Does that make it any clearer for you?

 

[touch]

Nope.

If say NatWest had the exact same deal I got with Nationwide (current/previous lender) they'd both cost me the same to do. I'd have to pay nothing extra to go with NatWest. Does that make it any clearer for you?

You need to follow a legal process to remove the charge on your property from your previous mortgage lender to a new mortgage lender. This is usually done by a solicitor who will charge a fee for doing so. Some mortgage providers will pay the legal fees for you when you remortgage with them.

How much will remortgaging cost?

How much will it cost you to move to a new mortgage deal? This Money Saving Expert guide lists the costs you face - remortgage fees, solicitor costs & more

www.moneysavingexpert.com

 

[danlightbulb]

They sound like a pretty poor idea that would just lead to even more inflated house prices. How do early repayment fees work, how does it work when you want to move houses 3 times over your lifetime etc?

It could be done but would require rework of the current mortgage system. Imagine a mortgage tied to an individual based on your income, and the house its assigned to being the variable element. The security is still the house but the mortgage term and rate is tied to yourself and your personal income and risk level.

parking on a driveway is simply a luxury, and luxuries will cost more.

Its not a luxury. Having a driveway, in this day and age, is the baseline. Not having one makes a house substandard, and having a triple large one becomes the luxury. Times change and minimum expectations change (and should improve). Would you argue that someone who had less money should buy a non-insulated house because it was cheaper, or would you argue that the baseline has changed and the minimum expectation now should be a well insulated house. Just because a driveway is not part of building regs does not mean it can be ignored within standards setting. Your argument can be extended to everything - a house is a luxury if we can all live in tents just fine. Standards go up.

 

[kona786]

You need to follow a legal process to remove the charge on your property from your previous mortgage lender to a new mortgage lender. This is usually done by a solicitor who will charge a fee for doing so. Some mortgage providers will pay the legal fees for you when you remortgage with them.

How much will remortgaging cost?

How much will it cost you to move to a new mortgage deal? This Money Saving Expert guide lists the costs you face - remortgage fees, solicitor costs & more

www.moneysavingexpert.com

Yes.. There is a fee but the customer doesn't pay it.

As I stated the new lender as long as they're not one of the niche lenders, but a high Street bank or the likes will absorb transfer fees and do it in house etc. A lender that charges is not the norm.


@413x sounds as though you paid a product fee and nothing more. Which was your choice to secure that rate.

 

[Scam]

You make landlords sound like some organised cartel. They are just greedy people who can make easy money from it. There isn't much thought put into it other than the fact that its an amazing investment for what is a tiny outlay.

(snip)

I personally think there should be far stricter controls on rental properties to avoid them be so lucrative and attractive to people who see them only as an investment. Thats another discussion though.

Well they kinda are. Genuine question, what other industries can (legitimately and legally) restrict access to their "product" to make it more expensive? Agreed on the controls, yes that is for another discussion but the point I was making is relevant here, and always will be when it comes to house prices.

Its not a luxury. Having a driveway, in this day and age, is the baseline. Not having one makes a house substandard, and having a triple large one becomes the luxury. Times change and minimum expectations change (and should improve). (snip) Standards go up.

Hardly. Sounds like you've never lived in a big city. Try looking for a house in zone 2-3 London on a limited budget and tell the estate agent it has to have a driveway and see how far you get. There are plenty of luxurious homes (terraced/semis/apartments) without driveways... It's dependant on location isn't it.

 

[413x]

Yes.. There is a fee but the customer doesn't pay it.

As I stated the new lender as long as they're not one of the niche lenders, but a high Street bank or the likes will absorb transfer fees and do it in house etc. A lender that charges is not the norm.


@413x sounds as though you paid a product fee and nothing more. Which was your choice to secure that rate.

I don't believe it.
Nothing is for free.

I asked what's included in this 'fee' My broker (direct) said the fees for remortgage are included in the rate or paid upfront.



Also. Regardless of what it is. It is a fee for remortgaging. It's a fee that may not be worth paying for someone with a small loan requirement.

 

[fez]

Its not a luxury. Having a driveway, in this day and age, is the baseline. Not having one makes a house substandard, and having a triple large one becomes the luxury. Times change and minimum expectations change (and should improve). Would you argue that someone who had less money should buy a non-insulated house because it was cheaper, or would you argue that the baseline has changed and the minimum expectation now should be a well insulated house. Just because a driveway is not part of building regs does not mean it can be ignored within standards setting. Your argument can be extended to everything - a house is a luxury if we can all live in tents just fine. Standards go up.

Stop calling my house sub-standard

We don't have a driveway or the right to park outside. Its an Edwardian house so the insulation is ****.

None of this stuff is standard or required. I would say that a huge amount of UK housing stock doesn't have reserved parking outside or a driveway. We have a house worth ~£550k and don't have proper parking and my partners cousin lives in Bath and has a flat worth a similar amount and the parking there is god awful. Loads of lovely huge houses that have almost all be turned into flats so suddenly a large house has potentially 6+ cars fighting for space outside.

Its all just an interplay of location, features and size that dictates a houses price. If I wanted to live in Scotland I could buy a proper mansion within our budget in the right area.

 

[danlightbulb]

Hardly. Sounds like you've never lived in a big city. Try looking for a house in zone 2-3 London on a limited budget and tell the estate agent it has to have a driveway and see how far you get. There are plenty of luxurious homes (terraced/semis/apartments) without driveways... It's dependant on location isn't it.

The fact that houses with driveways in a big city don't exist does not excuse the issue. Its a legacy problem and if you were designing it now, you would build better transport links and have driveways. The fact people accept houses without driveways these days is a circular consequence of many houses not having them and developers not building houses with them because they can get away with it. The fact that luxurious houses exist without driveways does not excuse not having it as a standard, it is still a compromise that significantly effects mobility and opportunity, even if youre paying over a million quid for a house.

People buying a million quid house don't really need double glazing either do they. Yet you would consider a house without it to be sub-standard.

Acceptance of poor standards and lack of consumer protections is part of the reason we have a housing crisis in the first place here. The whole EV argument about lack of access to charging points is an obvious reason why driveways should be standard these days.

You know in the early 1900's, they demolished poor quality sub standard housing and replaced it with something more suitable for modern living. Why don't we do that now, why do we accept 100+ year old standards as acceptable today?