Certainly looked like it was going in that direction. He thinks he pays more than his fair share for services he doesn't use and shouldn't be charged more tax for them. If you follow that argument, people who have more than him also pay more than their fair share and shouldn't be charged more tax for them. So who should be paying these taxes? (hence my question to him).
Mortgage Rate Rises
- Thread starter glenimp617
- Start date
And this is where you started making stuff up. He never said that at all
I guess this is down to perception / interpretation but to me it doesn't look like a 'mess', or at least not a particularly bad one yet. Rates are slowly being adjusted in line with the economy just as has often happened in the past, it's largely predictable in small steady steps and not a chaotic scenario like leaving the ERM, 2008 banking crisis, Brexit vote, Truss/Kwasi budget fallout etc.
Basically we've had a long sustained period of low interest rates but are now in a period of high inflation which means monetary policy is coming more to the fore, the fact rates were at such a low base as given scope to raise them back towards normal levels. There's a generation (almost) of people who have grown up in a world of low rates so it feels strange to them to see them rising but that's just a by-product of the fact the past 15 years have been weird
Basically what we see here is that:
a) Since 2009 rates have been very low by historical standards.
b) Volatility of rates is normal. The flatline scenario we've had recently is unprecedented.
c) Current rates are still low compared to the post war period in general, especially considering the ratio of inflation to interest rates. I think people have their heads in the sand if they are thinking it implausible for rates to go over 5%.
Of course the economy in general is different these days, different external factors etc so one can't rely solely on historical trends (I hadn't expected rates to remain so low for so long, for example), but equally I don't think people should just dismiss it out of hand.
Admittedly because house prices are high these days, interest rates have more impact on affordability but people can't have it both ways, we can't moan about housing being too expensive but then when there are downward pressures on house prices (via reduced lending) we complain about that too. Something has to give, you can't have super cheap credit for buying houses and then expect houses to be sold at bargain-basement prices.
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He sure did, although not all in the same post.
Show me
I really cba especially when he has not even denied it. You carry on being his hero.
Soldato
It could be inferred that, from these posts, he believes that he pays more than he thinks is fair in taxes particularly when he doesn't use some of the services they pay for such as Public Healthcare (he uses private) and education as he has no kids.
As I say - depending on how you read it, he believes he's getting a raw deal.
Raw deal =! Asking to pay less tax. Posters have invented their own outrage.
Soldato
tbh this thread is just a wall of ignored posts for me at this point, enough is enough.
what originally got misunderstood was this:
"I'm a higher tax payer and that does not mean I'm rich, it means I'm paying more than my fair share for public services already."
which I said because people assume that paying higher tax means you're rich.
It doesn't mean I'm rich, after living costs and tax I'm not better off than an average household. I live in an average house and drive an average car and don't take holidays. That's what a higher rate tax payer looks like.
but what the quote actually does mean is exactly what it says "a higher rate tax payer" = I'm paying a lot more tax.
So you can rage at me on the internet and I can't stop you, but maybe it should be a "thank you" instead.
"Thanks throwaway for paying way more than us for the services we use equally, such a nice guy, much appreciate."
witch hunt over, you can go back to whining about mortgages.
what originally got misunderstood was this:
"I'm a higher tax payer and that does not mean I'm rich, it means I'm paying more than my fair share for public services already."
which I said because people assume that paying higher tax means you're rich.
It doesn't mean I'm rich, after living costs and tax I'm not better off than an average household. I live in an average house and drive an average car and don't take holidays. That's what a higher rate tax payer looks like.
but what the quote actually does mean is exactly what it says "a higher rate tax payer" = I'm paying a lot more tax.
So you can rage at me on the internet and I can't stop you, but maybe it should be a "thank you" instead.
"Thanks throwaway for paying way more than us for the services we use equally, such a nice guy, much appreciate."
witch hunt over, you can go back to whining about mortgages.
I literally asked who should pay the tax instead of him and he answered.
Not outraged though, particularly as he didn't answer with the response I'd suspected he would.
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Unfortunately your hero isn't ready for that yet.
Yup youve been misunderstood by some. Thanks for clearing up how you feel so succinctly
Soldato
Watch out, dlockers will require you to provide the exact quote of the thing that never actually happened...
Maybe he's taking note of your word use. You claim to be paying more than your fair share despite providing no evidence that is the case. But like you say back to moaning about mortgages...
Soldato
Fairness is subjective, but we've already talked about fiscal drag, the tax burden on higher rate taxpayers is higher than it was designed to be.
Soldato
True - you don't think it's fair, lots of people disagree, that's life.
Fiscal drag doesn't only affect higher rate tax payers. It also affects people in a worse financial position than yourself as well but we can't moan about public services and then moan about paying more to fund them regardless if you choose to use them or not (that's a choice).
You mentioned above that just because you earn enough to be a higher rate tax payer you're not actually rich but, in the very same post, you admit to living like a student to pay your mortgage off early - that was your choice to live like that and, you'll reap the fruits of that when others are still having to pay their mortgage and you don't whilst still earning a pretty good amount of money.
Some people have to "live like a student" for their entire life just to get by
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You absolutely can moan about public services (that's a choice).
Soldato
The effect of fiscal drag on higher rate taxpayers is massive. If there's an effect on standard rate taxpayers it's not comparable.
You can whine about public services as much as you like. You can whine about tax as much as you like. Everyone complains about not seeing a GP etc, we're all in the same boat with regards to mis-management.
I might be missing your point on this one I think.
I made what turned out to be a smart choice to overpay hard, I had no idea rates would rise as much as they have done ofc.
I get the sense you want to punish/blame me for it, but I don't see why.
Maybe you're trying to say I must be rich because I had that choice - maybe the word 'rich' is the problem because that's subjective/relative - maybe ppl get hung up on income and not how far that income actually goes - maybe it's just resentment/jealousy because not everyone ends up in a well paid career. I don't think people imagine a 'rich' person in a small house driving an astra though, I think they're assuming because I pay higher tax I must have a mansion and a porche or something, but that's just not how it is. To actually get a 'rich person house' around here I'd need to find about 500k down the back of the sofa, it just isn't in the realm of possibility.
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Not in percentage terms, the only terms we care about.
High earners to pay nearly £2000 more in tax due to fiscal drag | MoneyWeek
The government froze tax thresholds, which will drag employees into higher tax bands as wages rise with inflation. We explain what fiscal drag is, and how to avoid it.
moneyweek.com
Nobody thinks you are rich but I'm pretty sure I've seen you mention making use of all the tax incentives e.g pensions. What is unfair is people earning millions paying tax rates of 23% e.g Rishi.
Man of Honour
How bout dem mortgage rates doe.