Most efficient way to use weight machines?

kwerk said:
McGill says himself that back strength has no bearing on injury prevention. The only thing that matters is static strength from doing planks and the like.
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I know very well what McGill says, thank you very much.

You seem to have read a few things here and there and applied what you learned to really broken framework of understanding.

a.k.a you have no idea what you're talking about, and somehow you've managed to feel smug about it :o
 
kwerk said:
Realistically if you're not on drugs you're not going to get spectacular results anyway so free weights is pretty much a waste of effort IMO, unless it's sport performance specific. The most you could hope for is perhaps one of the lesser doped up olympic sprinters or gymnast physiques. If you plan on doing drugs later then free weights would be more important for building a solid base.
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LOL!!! What a trolltastic post! Haven't read this much BS in a while.

Please ignore this post Magnolia.
 
icecold said:
I know very well what McGill says, thank you very much.

You seem to have read a few things here and there and applied what you learned to really broken framework of understanding.

a.k.a you have no idea what you're talking about, and somehow you've managed to feel smug about it :o
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Well why don't you add something useful then instead of just slinging insults?

My purposes are to look good to WOMEN not men.

Women don't care how much you can deadlift. Most of them don't even care about big muscles. They care how good you look and I can get as good, if not better return-on-investment from machines as free weights. Although I'll admit I have access to some high-end machines with multiple planes of motion, etc.

So really who are we trying to impress? Other dudes? Or women? Cause women certainly don't give a crap about some fat guy confused as to whether he's a pretend powerlifter or pretend bodybuilder, posting on the internet about his squat/deadlift/BP stats :rolleyes:

Bottom line: don't buy into dogmas.

Not trying to troll, just giving the other side of the argument away from the reflex "do free weights" meme.
 
Freefaller said:
LOL!!! What a trolltastic post! Haven't read this much BS in a while.

Please ignore this post Magnolia.
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Well then show me what can be achieved without drugs? I mean let's see an idea of what you think the OP is going to achieve with deadlifts and the like?

Realistically this is probably the best anyone could hope to achieve and I'm being extremely generous. Simply an athletic physique. And I'm pretty sure he's been on something just from the size of his delts, which is one of the best giveaways since delts have a much higher number of androgen receptors than lower muscles so respond to drugs really well.

yuri2007dtb41thumb4.jpg
 
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wedgie said:
As was I :p.

Without disagreeing with your comments, I stand by what I said. Of course machines and isolation exercises have their own uses/advantages, but that's lesson 4 or 5 there, lesson 1 will almost always detail how greater importance is placed on compound over isolation, and same for free weights over machines.

It's the basic fundamentals of weight training, then you adjust accordingly to suit your own needs. From the looks of things kwerk has gone straight to the point of adjusting his routine without having the core principles down in the first place.
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From age 15 to 22 I did free weights, because that's what everyone said to do and I didn't have access to decent machines anyway. Now I'm older and pretty much dropped the ego don't give a crap about trying to impress other GUYS in the gym, I'm perfectly happy with girly machine workouts. It works fine, in fact it feels better. For example on machine bench press I can squeeze together towards the end and it feels awesome, but on dumbell presses there is less tension towards the end. I can only really feel a good tension in a partial amount of the movement, even down at 5-6 rep weight.

I like machines, haterz gon hate.
 
kwerk said:
Realistically if you're not on drugs you're not going to get spectacular results anyway so free weights is pretty much a waste of effort IMO, unless it's sport performance specific. The most you could hope for is perhaps one of the lesser doped up olympic sprinters or gymnast physiques. If you plan on doing drugs later then free weights would be more important for building a solid base.

haterz gon hate
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Hating on that because of the divvel about drugs and poor results.

kwerk said:
I like machines, haterz gon hate.
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Couldn't care less about that.
 
kwerk said:
From age 15 to 22 I did free weights
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Did you spend 7 years giving them dirty looks? Afraid it's not their fault you had not the first clue what you were doing and thus wasted your time.

I am now convinced this a poor attempt at trolling.

Drugs have no place in this argument, do you even realise that the only time drugs will yield 'unnatural' results is once you've already reached your genetic potential? Until that point they will only give results that could be achieved through the correct training and diet, albeit faster. Without knowing how long someone has been weight training, no way would I jump to assuming they're on drugs simply because they have obvious results. I'd imagine someone who has intentionally stayed natural to achieve results would find that pretty insulting.

If you like machines, then you keep doing your thing. But it's not hating to point out your talking crap, it's pointing out an absolute fact.
 
wedgie said:
Did you spend 7 years giving them dirty looks? Afraid it's not their fault you had not the first clue what you were doing and thus wasted your time.

I am now convinced this a poor attempt at trolling.

Drugs have no place in this argument, do you even realise that the only time drugs will yield 'unnatural' results is once you've already reached your genetic potential? Until that point they will only give results that could be achieved through the correct training and diet, albeit faster. Without knowing how long someone has been weight training, no way would I jump to assuming they're on drugs simply because they have obvious results. I'd imagine someone who has intentionally stayed natural to achieve results would find that pretty insulting.

If you like machines, then you keep doing your thing. But it's not hating to point out your talking crap, it's pointing out an absolute fact.
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I'm yet to see any facts. All I see is group think and insults.

If you bother reading what I actually post, I said I had great results before and I still have left over muscle 7 years later eating cheeseburgers, drinking beer almost daily (I know it shows) and never even touching weights.

http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showpost.php?p=20213952&postcount=362

On the drugs question, most people's natural potential is rubbish though so what's the point in killing yourself? I mean half of the people in the "post your pics" thread are obviously meant to be distance runners or something. Even that gymnast I posted isn't amazing, it's just an athletic physique. I doubt he even does deadlifts or bench presses. Half of these dogmas and protocols are just a waste of time/effort unless you can exploit it fully with drugs. I'm 100% pro drugs BTW. I'm just being realistic, the OP is never going to look like a "bodybuilder" no matter how much free weights he does. In my opinion the whole bodybuilding thing is a big misdirection for the purpose of selling stuff. Just call it what it is: recreational weight lifting.

So if you can achieve that physique with machines with less time/effort, or even just gymnastic rings, why bother with the dogmatic quasi-powerlifter routines?

OK to specifically answer the OPs question and stop hijacking:

It really doesn't matter. Do 4x8 for a couple months and keep adding a bit of weight. Then do 3x12 for a couple months. Then do 3x20 for a month. Take 10 days off if you feel like it. It doesn't matter as long as you keep overloading and adapting in the long run. You can stop a rep or 2 short of failure. The goal is to stimulate not destroy.
 
LMFAO at that gymnast being an athletic physique, dude is jacked plain and simple. yeah maybe athletic compared to a complete 300lb lard ass but come on try using your eyes to observe reality for once. Walk around the street and see what the average guy looks like. Either zero muscle skinny-fat or looking big in a shirt but actually being quite fat regardless of muscle mass.

I'm not a big guy by any means, i know this, but i have a fair whack more muscle(or at least a similar amount while being a lot leaner) than your average guy after a year and a half of training.



Wake the **** up and stop making retarded posts.
 
kwerk said:
Well why don't you add something useful then instead of just slinging insults?

My purposes are to look good to WOMEN not men.

Women don't care how much you can deadlift. Most of them don't even care about big muscles. They care how good you look and I can get as good, if not better return-on-investment from machines as free weights. Although I'll admit I have access to some high-end machines with multiple planes of motion, etc.

So really who are we trying to impress? Other dudes? Or women? Cause women certainly don't give a crap about some fat guy confused as to whether he's a pretend powerlifter or pretend bodybuilder, posting on the internet about his squat/deadlift/BP stats :rolleyes:

Bottom line: don't buy into dogmas.

Not trying to troll, just giving the other side of the argument away from the reflex "do free weights" meme.
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Add something useful? Hilarious :D

Keep deluding yourself sweetheart.

I'm an actual powerlifter (I'm also in the process of getting certified by the UKSCA), Steedie (also posts here) is an actual bodybuilder, and Freefaller is an actual bear. The "post your pictures" thread has plenty of examples of what can be achieved drug free, and it also has a lot of guys who are new to this. That aside, people on here know a lot about this topic. You, on the other hand, do not.

The approach only seems dogmatic because it's what works, simple as that. The human body responds best when worked as a system. All you are doing is totally making stuff up and proclaiming it to be the better way, but maybe that's how you get your kicks.

Your picture is nothing remarkable, I'd call that a very average physique that was carrying ~20% bodyfat (if not more, need better lighting and no sucking in of the belly).
 
kwerk said:
..So if you can achieve that physique with machines with less time/effort..
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You can't. Big muscles require big weights. Big weights require functional strength. Functional strength comes from compound lifting. Machines turn a compound movement into a quasi-isolation exercise, limiting their use for beginners. Beginners need functional strength in order to lift the bigger weights. Functional strength comes from free weights.

Machines have their place. They can be used to supplement a solid existing routine. For a beginner to maximise their potential, whatever that may be, free weights offer the only sensible option.

But then many people here have tried telling you this but you simply will not listen. This makes you dangerous to listen to for a beginner. You have cherry-picked what you believe makes you look clever from a few online articles. The danger is someone will listen to you.
 
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