motoGP boys show the F1 guys the way

F1 cars can race in extreme wet weather. We have seen this time and time again. Even in the last race we had, it was pretty wet - so much so that the race was started behind a safety car.

If it is very wet, you drive slower. Simple. If you want to take risks and drive faster then power to you, but you will run the risk of going off.

One mistake in an F1 car and (if you end up going off) you will probably walk away unscathed (as we saw Webber doing in the last race). On a motorbike though, in extreme wet conditions, if you go off, you could quite possibly break a bone.

You seem to be suggesting that in extreme weather you much rather ride a motorbike than an F1 car. As a motorcyclist, I would strongly disagree with that and would much rather drive a 4 wheeled vehicle than a 2 wheeled vehicle.
 
sunama said:
You seem to be suggesting that in extreme weather you much rather ride a motorbike than an F1 car. As a motorcyclist, I would strongly disagree with that and would much rather drive in a 4 wheeled vehicle than a 2 wheeled vehicle.
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In extreme wet an f1 car will simply not turn, which is why no racing under extreme wet, there is a difference between full wet and extreme wet tracks.
Yes you will survive a crash in f1 unhurt, but that doesn't mean the cars can be raced in any sense of the word.

Motorbikes have the ground clearance, don't have the aero and can be raced in much wetter conditions.

Are you really saying you would want to watch an f1 race with an average speed of 20mph, any faster and you are off as nothing is designed to be used at that speed, or to cope with the water. It does not take much standing or flowing water to bottom an F1 car out.

You seem to be suggesting that in extreme weather you much rather ride a motorbike than an F1 car. As a motorcyclist, I would strongly disagree with that and would much rather drive a 4 wheeled vehicle than a 2 wheeled vehicle.
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Not suggesting anything of the sort, simply pointing out f1 cars are designed in such a way that racing in extreme wet is literally not possible, unlike on bikes or most other car formulas and that any "racing" that is possible is not racing at all.
 
sunama said:
I think we shall have to agree to disagree on this, Acid. ;)
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Quite simply, how much clearance does a bike have?
how much clearance does an f1 car have?

a bike although more dangerous can be raced in many more conditions, for the simple fact it is designed different to an f1 car,
Just like most other car forumals do not struggle as again they are not designed like an f1 car. Every aspect of an F! car is optimised in every way for a dry race.

We've had races before sc/black flag, where we have seen one car after the other all not make the corner, that is not racing, they haven't even been pushing it. Not even a spin, simply no grip to turn in. That is not racing.

They could quite easily change the rules to say if the start of the race is on extreme wet tyres, then parc ferme no longer applies and they can alter wing angles, ride heights etc. That would substantially increase the conditions they could race in.
 
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deleted said:
... fact is clearance will only allow so much water to travel under, once the car is aquaplaning it might as well be a boat. End of.
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In order for the car to aqua plane, the bottom of the tub of the car has be almost completely immersed in water (ie. like a boat). For this to happen, the track would have to be so water logged, that the issue wouldn't be of whether to race or not, but whether to even allow the public into the race track.

What you are describing here is verging on flooding, where either water is falling onto the track, faster than the track can displace the water off it or the track itself has become waterlogged with puddles so deep that the cars are aqua planing (and the monocoque is becoming a boat). Weather this extreme, hardly ever happens. I think the last time this happened was in Japan, which was the reason why the practise and qualifying sessions were compromised. Before this, I can't remember the last time we saw a complete wash out...so it is rare.

More typically, heavy rain fall would be similar to what we saw in the last race - ie. the cars were drivable, but only the most courageous would dare push the car to the limit. This is a fact, because all cars started behind the safety car and they were able to follow it without issue.

In flood like conditions, racing on 2 or 4 wheels will be nigh on impossible. And this is fact, not opinion. I for one would not want to take hairpin bends on a wet track that is waterlogged, on a motorbike. Flood like conditions are extremely rare.

Furthermore, F1 drivers fear aqua planing, they are perfectly within their rights to ask their engineers to set their car up with a high ride height.

I stand by original opinion that in heavy rain (similar to what we saw in Korea (not flood like conditions)), I would much rather be on 4 wheels than 2.

...oh and trying to dress up this discussion as a FACT is complete nonsense. Until you get a driver to physically drive an F1 car and a motorcyclist to ride his bike in identical (wet) conditions (preferably at the same time, on the same track) and then have both people report back with their results, this discussion is all conjecture and opinion, not fact.
 
sunama said:
n order for the car to aqua plane, the bottom of the tub of the car has be almost completely immersed in water
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What are you on about, that would be to float, not aqua plane. Water at the skid plank, will reduce grip and cause aquaplaning especially in areas of compression. In fact you don't even need the water to beach the car, it's when the tyre tread can not remove the water fast enough as well.

Furthermore, F1 drivers fear aqua planing, they are perfectly within their rights to ask their engineers to set their car up with a high ride height.
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No they can't parc ferme. Unless you sacrifice the weekend in a hope of a wet race, which is not going to happen. Just like f1 cars will not be designed to cope with water, as you would sacrifice the other 16+ races a a year.
 
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sunama said:
In flood like conditions, racing on 2 or 4 wheels will be nigh on impossible
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Clicked on earlier today to watch the 125 (first up) qualifying from Estoril...they had sent the safety car out to drive the track and there were floods everywhere, the uphill esses which i think are the second to last corner literally had a river running down them, the car had a bow wave for gods sake!.
:D
 
The argument is just such carp - F1 cars and motoGP bikes are different - F1 cars and Ford mondeos are different - motoGP bikes and Land rovers are different - 10mm of water and 100mm of water are different - tracks have different drainage - you just cannot compare drivers balls based on what you think the drivability is from your sofa.
 
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