Moving into Management
- Thread starter LiE
- Start date
Staying with same games company or moving internally?
Soldato
“Engineering Lead” in finance is about 100k. There is one per team. Yes base pay so you can add 25 to 50k with benefits. That’s just normal developers not quants which can be 2x that. You need to know your stuff though! Ace developer plus Black Scholes plus Brownian Motion plus Montecarlo plus in depth securities knowledge. Sorted.
In the team I run, "Engineers" start on around 65, Seniors start at around 90. Staff up to about 140. Principal 140+. Package is around 40-50% on top of that. That's regardless of any line management responsibilities (the team is pretty much flat one level below me). I have 1 Principal, 3 Staff, 8 Senior and 3 engineers - split across two teams.
I spent a couple of years working with some quants/researchers doing a bit of portfolio construction and tail dependence - beefing up the t-copula modelling performance with a bit of Spark shenanigans. Didn't get any particularly large salary bump for doing that though.
Soldato
Grads can do Spark and it all seems to be Snow-flake (damn the filter) now anyway
go with the trend. I’m not a pure techie anymore. My experience is currently 3 teams with 25. 3 leads, 10 principles and the rest boggo devs. My first job was 8k p/a how times change!Grads can do Spark and it all seems to be Snow-flake (damn the filter) now anyway
Where do the "leads" sit? We don't have a separate job description for "leads", they're just whatever level they're at plus some line management duties.
But, back more on point, we don't force people into management type roles to advance both career and package-wise. You can be a Senior, running a team, doing some architecture and project management, or a Principal, just bashing out code.
And that is becoming more and more common, as people work out that - generally - coders make for fairly poor managers, especially if they don't actually want to be doing it.
What is the difference between those roles? What does each one involve over the other? Is this in London? Are your seniors "team leads" with anyone reporting to them?
Oh I'm moving to another company. Current job has turned out to be a bit of a disaster, partly my fault tbh, I shouldn't have accepted it in the first place, but the international relocation package was convenient at the time.
Back to a more appropriate level now though, starting new role as Principal Programmer in a few weeks. Although I'm pretty sure that will evolve into management soon enough, it'll be good to have another stint of code-crunching.
Man of Honour
I wish I had done more software stuff 20+ years ago when I was studying... Seems to be a really sought after skill now.
In my field of engineering (civil, infrastructure, megaprojects) engineering managers start at around 50ish depending on the size of the company (though 60+ is not uncommon), with senior engineer managers heading towards 70-80k with heads of departments or project lead roles 90k+. But for that you need at least 10-12 years minimum of experience and be chartered. The 6 figure salaries start at director level more often than not though many heads of in specialised roles and technical expertise roles do get 110k-ish again depending on the size of the company. However profit margins in this field are pretty slim so bonuses etc... aren't that common.
Is it too late to become a software guru in your 40s?!
In my field of engineering (civil, infrastructure, megaprojects) engineering managers start at around 50ish depending on the size of the company (though 60+ is not uncommon), with senior engineer managers heading towards 70-80k with heads of departments or project lead roles 90k+. But for that you need at least 10-12 years minimum of experience and be chartered. The 6 figure salaries start at director level more often than not though many heads of in specialised roles and technical expertise roles do get 110k-ish again depending on the size of the company. However profit margins in this field are pretty slim so bonuses etc... aren't that common.
Is it too late to become a software guru in your 40s?!
Ah, ok. Always thought working for that company would be good due it its history.
Is it too late to become a software guru in your 40s?!
Definitely not.
I was into programming when I was in my teens as I always wanted to work in the games industry. But I realised it wasn't for me and left it behind 20 odd years ago. But now I am learning Python in my late 30's. As its a skill people are asking for when working in Cloud automating stuff. So it should become useful when I start my new role next week along with Powershell.
Never too late to learn a new skill.
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I see a lot of people mention technical based manager roles, this one I've been offered isn't technical. The team I work in at the moment is support, we do traditional break/fix work but also dev work. I do mini projects for our support customers, the more technical and challenging work. I am essentially a consultant within the support practice. The manager of support, his job is to allocate work, meetings with our many customers, bid reviews, escalations, etc. There is no technical aspect to the role. I don't think it's a good fit for me, I certainly don't want to give up all my technical/consultancy work to do noddy power points for senior managers and customers.
The software I work in is in high demand, all the big consultancy firms are always recruiting. Doesn't make sense to go into a generic manager role when I have no ambitious to do so.
I have spoken to my manager and explained my thoughts and he totally gets it. He will be speaking to the head of delivery about my desire to move at some point in the next 12-18 months. Does mean I'll have to pull my finger out and get this 4 month long training for Technical Architect done though
The software I work in is in high demand, all the big consultancy firms are always recruiting. Doesn't make sense to go into a generic manager role when I have no ambitious to do so.
I have spoken to my manager and explained my thoughts and he totally gets it. He will be speaking to the head of delivery about my desire to move at some point in the next 12-18 months. Does mean I'll have to pull my finger out and get this 4 month long training for Technical Architect done though
Man of Honour
I see a lot of people mention technical based manager roles, this one I've been offered isn't technical. The team I work in at the moment is support, we do traditional break/fix work but also dev work. I do mini projects for our support customers, the more technical and challenging work. I am essentially a consultant within the support practice. The manager of support, his job is to allocate work, meetings with our many customers, bid reviews, escalations, etc. There is no technical aspect to the role. I don't think it's a good fit for me, I certainly don't want to give up all my technical/consultancy work to do noddy power points for senior managers and customers.
The software I work in is in high demand, all the big consultancy firms are always recruiting. Doesn't make sense to go into a generic manager role when I have no ambitious to do so.
I have spoken to my manager and explained my thoughts and he totally gets it. He will be speaking to the head of delivery about my desire to move at some point in the next 12-18 months. Does mean I'll have to pull my finger out and get this 4 month long training for Technical Architect done though
Sounds like you've made the right call
Would you ever consider leaving to another place for a more technical management / consultancy role?
Man of Honour
I had a dabble with Python, seems really fun / powerful, but I can't deny it feels overwhelming for me! I'd find it hard to commit to really learn it (2 kids, busy weekends, busy job).
I've made a bit of niche for my skills/capability/expertise in my sector and I think I'd struggle back in on an entry level salary!
Sounds like you've made the right call
Would you ever consider leaving to another place for a more technical management / consultancy role?
Work/life balance is extremely important to me, which is one of the reasons I moved from consultancy into support many years ago. My current employer is really good with work/life balance and I've never had any issues with them. For me moving doesn't really make sense unless I was motivated by money. Quite a few people have become contractors on £550-600 day rate, but I've never been interested.
Been with this employer for 14 years now which says a lot.
To be honest mate, if changing roles is off the cards (I was going to suggest moving into a dedicated consultancy role to get the best of both worlds) and you’ve been there 14 years, we’re not going to convince you of anything here. You’re on good money money for a support role (astounding tbh but those increases over 14 years add up), I think you already know in your head what you want to do.
Man of Honour
Yeah that's totally fair. I still have a bit of fight left in me so I'm still pushing for larger Salaries but I do want to wind down to a better work/life balance (hard when you're used to a certain amount of income). You know what it's like as a family man it's nice to spend time with the kids which is why weekends are so precious.
I will likely be moving into consultancy (the delivery team) in the next 12-18 months. I'm already doing the job but from within support, which is a bit unique but one of the reasons why I'm paid well. I am working exclusively for 1 customer at the moment who only wants to work with me but as soon as that comes to an end I've got to move anyway as I'm no longer a fit for the role of support.
Yea I love having flexibility and support from my current employer with work/life balance. It may take a small hit when I move into projects but still very manageable. With the Mrs having her own business that should also remove even more need for me to push for bigger salaries.
Man of Honour
That's true - once the kids are a bit more independent my wife will definitely want to get her career back on track hence my push for somewhat excessive salary... when she's earning a bit more again (she does p/t work at the moment) then I'll happily take a bit of a hit. But we want to maintain our lifestyle and still do 2-3 foreign travels a year (mainly to see family).
What is the difference between those roles?
- The difference between the roles is about a persons expertise, contribution and influence, and leadership. Expertise, for example, ranges from "Proficient at consistently applying expertise to complex problems" to "Industry leading expertise. Uses expertise to shape our future organisation"
What does each one involve over the other?
- they involve broadly the same technical work at a fundamental level - it's just the degree to which they meet the criteria above which is the difference.
Is this in London?
- Yes, but we have offices all over the place, and a new remote-working hub in Manchester. All of my team are based in London though.
Are your seniors "team leads" with anyone reporting to them?
- No, Seniors are seniors - team leads are team leads.
Soldato
I did it a few years ago. Went from that specialist to then suddenly a manager. I work in a big London tech company. Hated it at first. Suddenly having to do things like managing budgets and other people was not rewarding at all. I felt like I was wasting my skills and it was a constant never ending task. It made me really appreciate in the past that when you got something done you had that sense of accomplishment and achievement. With management that was all gone. I was left wondering how on Earth do people enjoy this and is what I’m experiencing normal. Then I read a book called Simply Managing by Henry Mintzberg. It made me completely comfortable with being a manager.
I’m still a manager (now senior and the next level is director) and have days when I miss the technical stuff but now I feel like I have more influence and can leverage teams to do more than I ever could in the past. I appreciate some truly staggering technical people that I work with who are so passionate and that drives me also. Plus getting paid more is also a bonus.
I’m still a manager (now senior and the next level is director) and have days when I miss the technical stuff but now I feel like I have more influence and can leverage teams to do more than I ever could in the past. I appreciate some truly staggering technical people that I work with who are so passionate and that drives me also. Plus getting paid more is also a bonus.