Murco fuel

[Rainmaker]

I don't want to start (yet another?) fuel war in here, but I do have a question. I can't find anything using Google so Motors it is.

I live sandwiched between a Shell, a Total and a Murco fuel station. I've always driven diesels and on my last car (HDi) I found that Murco offered the best 'experience'. The car always seemed to deliver better MPG and had a more willing throttle (more 'pull' if you will). Switching back to Shell didn't affect economy too badly but power delivery was definitely down. I've avoided Total out of principle for years, so I can't really comment on those.

However, Murco isn't really a big brand per se and you don't see many of them. My question is, how good exactly is it? I don't mean "Which is the best fuel to use?", but rather "Where does Murco sit in the scale of supply?".

Are they a 'premium'/branded fuel comparable to Shell, BP etc or are they more your budget supermarket bare minimum type? Their derv certainly seems denser and richer than the smoky Tesco pap, in fact it smells rather suspiciously like BP Ultimate. In other words, it 'feels' like a premium fuel and the car does well on it - but is it something I should be using long term or am I better off sticking to Shell so my injectors don't foul up and die inside two years?

I know this is somewhat of an abstract question, but hopefully you can get what I'm trying to ask. TIA.

 

[Rainmaker]

Thanks guys, that's pretty much what I was asking for. I know that BP, Shell et al aren't magically somehow wonderful; but as you said MrLOL the supermarket stuff can be quite 'bare minimum'. Less or no additives to the base fuel for example (which I know is shared between brands depending on the nearest refinery outlet).

Meeting bare bones EN spec, and being well developed and full of detergents, cetane improvers and so on are two entirely different things. I just wanted to know whether Murco was one of the 'supermarket types' or whether they use a decent stock and additive package.

 

[Rainmaker]

Just to answer some of my own question; according to their website they do indeed now own 100% of Milford Haven where they refine and distribute their own fuel from scratch. I suppose that alone answers my question in that they're producing their own goods rather than reselling from the communal terminal, and my experience of the fuel itself is good.

Regardless of the debate surrounding 'branded' and 'premium' fuels, I suspect we can safely say Murco at least aren't "supermarket" type fuels. I'll fire them an email to see if they have any bumph they can send my way about their fuel etc. I couldn't help but notice they don't offer a 'premium' fuel - just 'normal' stuff. My experience is that Murco's diesel is better than Shell, and certainly supermarket, stuff anyway - so the facts do seem to support my experiences.

Thanks all.

 

[Rainmaker]

I said myself that I know supermarkets generally buy from the same shared terminal, and that the additives are the difference. However, in defence of MrLOL and taking Tesco as an example; they do indeed own shares (25%?) of their fuel supplier and it's not beyond the realms of possibility that they keep the budget down by doing the bare minimum possible?...

 

[Rainmaker]

From the Alpina Owners Forum:

In my past life, I used to work for the company that ran the fuel pipeline system around the country. This is the network that moves refined fuels to distribution centres from where road tankers fill up and service the petrol stations. One example of such a distribution centre was Buncefield which recently went up in flames.

In the early days, supermarket petrol - whilst using the same base fuel - had its own mix of detergents and additives put into it. These differed in blend and ingredients with Shell and BP additives for example. In order to achieve a lower price per gallon, the supermarkets put in lower quality, or less quantities of, additives.

Since then, BP and Shell (for example) have started refining specific fuels which differ enormously from the base fuel that supermarkets still use. So even where the supermarkets have improved the quality of the additives, the big boys have changed the overall specification of the fuel.

Add into that that tanker drivers confirm that supermarkets use little to no additives, and aren't exactly scrupulous with storage and cleanliness practices, and I think I'm safe staying with branded fuel. Especially when it costs no more than the supermarket stuff.

 

[Rainmaker]

I suspect from that he's referring to fuels like Shell VPower and BP Ultimate - so yes, its entirely true that the oil majors refine specific fuels. And yes, Shell VPower is a different fuel to Sainsburys 95.

But Shell 95 to Sainsburys 95 to Total 95 et al? Minor additive differences, your car is hardly going to explode if you use it. If your car only requires 95 RON fuel I honestly think it makes little difference where you fill up.

I know this is going to confuse you Fox, but if I put anything-RON fuel in my car my wallet would be a very sad panda. Nobody's saying the car is going to explode, but over the life of the engine a good additive package is going to pay dividends. Not to mention the increased MPG and lack of smoke. It's a no brainer for me. Petrol may be different, I don't touch the stuff. It's horrible.

Based on what, a SINGLE incident? And no oil major in the world has ever once had a similar incident? I think you really need to be careful before you start accusing large organisations of being unscrupulous!

Well to be fair it was hardly a single incident as has been demonstrated previously. I don't have to be careful at all, I'm simply relaying other sources of information. You pay your money and you take your chances. Since it costs me no more (actually, less) to fill up with Murco or Shell than it does to fill up at the supermarket I think it's silly not to.

 

[Rainmaker]

Certainly didn't stop me buying Tesco fuel as it wasn't exactly their fault - rather their suppliers.

Who is the majority shareholder in the supplier, again? Oh yeah. Tesco...

 

[Rainmaker]

Sorry but this is also wrong.

Of which supplier?

The tongue and wink may have been a clue...

Tesco own a 25% stake in Greenergy iirc.

 

[Rainmaker]

All fuel meets EN standards (EN590 in the case of diesel), yes. But that standard isn't very new, and doesn't take into account things like detergents, cetane improvers etc and so base EN fuel will 'go' but it might not let your engine live to be half a million miles old.

That wasn't my question anyway. As I said I didn't want to spark another "which is best" debate, I just wanted to know a bit more about Murco.

 

[Rainmaker]

In my eyes if there was a massive difference between BP/SHELL 95 ron fuels to supermarket fuel they would have given them some cheesy marketing name... Like they do on their super fuels, as it's their own unique recipe... But seeing as they don't do this i can't see there being much, if any, difference between their 95 fuels and use pretty much the same recipe of addatives...

Or maybe this theory of mine is highly flawed?

You mean they might use names like "Diesel Extra" and "FuelSave" on their standard range? ...

 

[Rainmaker]

Well from a marketing point of view branding creates a "difference" between competition's fuel, and in theory should earn you more moneys... But clearly they don't. I don't necessarily mean calling their standard fuels something "ultimate" as they aren't... But I'm pretty sure if they could they would want to separate their standard fuels from supermarket fuels, especially if their standard fuels were superior.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you missed my point entirely. Shell (for example) already DO market their standard fuels with cheesy names to differentiate them from 'inferior' supermarket fuels. For example, Shell Diesel Extra and Shell FuelSave. They are Shell's "standard" fuel but are trumped up as being something better than the standard pap in supermarket pumps...

 

[Rainmaker]

To be fair they've only just started using FuelSave in the last 3 months or so.

Isn't diesel extra to signify its low sulphur diesel? Like 'Citydiesel' at Sainsburys? Not sure.

No, Diesel Extra (now called Shell FuelSave Diesel) was [is] touted as being cleaner, better burning and longer lasting than 'inferior' supermarket fuels. The fuel was already ultra-low sulphur by law, the 'Extra' branding was nothing to do with this.

They are packed with extra detergents and enhancers, and as such are marketed to last longer, keep your engine cleaner, and give more bang for buck - whilst costing no more than 'standard' fuel...

 

[Rainmaker]

Well my theory still hold's some water if it's only recently they've done this.. Personally there isn't a shell anywhere near where i live... Just supermarkets/BP/TEXACO, and none of them brand their standard fuels.

No they recently changed the name to FuelSave. It's been marketed as Diesel EXTRA for years now with the same "better than the other pap" spiel.

To be fair I bet most of its snake oil. I honestly doubt your HDI engine performs any different regardless of fuel.

Actually I get significantly better performance and economy on Murco fuel, hence my OP. Shell is decent too but I prefer the extra 'grunt' on Murco stuff. We're not talking petrol here remember; a bit higher cetane and denser stock really can make a big difference to performance.

 

[Rainmaker]

WhiteCobra; an example of how Shell pushed Diesel Extra as being superior to other (especially supermarket fuels):

Shell Diesel Extra is designed to maintain the long-term operating efficiency of your vehicles, helping you get the most out of your business investment.

This improved diesel fuel contains advanced cleaning agents designed to support more effective combustion in your engine. This helps to increase fuel efficiency by up to 3%* in commercial vehicles by keeping fuel injectors free of carbon deposits.

Shell Diesel with fuel economy formula is now available in more than 10 countries in Europe. We sell this product under different names in different markets including New Shell Diesel and Shell Diesel Extra.

Shell Diesel Extra can help:
• Avoid rising fuel consumption
• Prevent increased emissions and smoke
• Reduce fall-off in performance
• Lower fuel system corrosion
• Reduce foaming when refueling
• Reduce maintenance costs

Source.

 

[Rainmaker]

Significantly?

To my mind, yes. I struggled to hit 40mpg a lot of the time on Tesco stuff, it really was poor and smoked like buggery. Murco stuff returned no less than 45mpg and often 50mpg over the same driving week on week. A return to Tesco fuel always dropped MPG to the high 30s or early 40s tops.

I realise this doesn't mean it applies to every car, and all fuels, UK-wide. But that's my experience. Since Shell and Murco cost me LESS than Tesco fuel I saw no need to go near them with my bargepole again.

all fuel in this country has to meet the British standard
so there is no sub standard fuel

yes the car may run better on a certain blend of fuel from a well known name, but its not going to get damaged running on a supermarket fuel

Nobody said it would (certainly not I). My point was that when you can get a better "built" fuel (extra additives to keep the engine clean, lubricated and such) for less money than supermarket "bare minimum EN spec" stuff - well, why not?

 

[Rainmaker]

taken from your quote

"Shell Diesel with fuel economy formula"

They've added their special recipe to make the fuel better. So this in my eyes isn't standard fuel. Good on them for making a better fuel at a competitive price. No other company seems to do it, that i know of, so I'm going to assume their selling pretty much the same as the supermarkets...

Erm, isn't that the whole point? You've just said it yourself. Shell sell their 'standard' fuel at 'standard' (supermarket) prices but it's higher spec, more 'enhanced' stuff that is better for your engine in the long run. Murco fuel seems much the same, and I find it hard to believe big brand fuel is as basic as most supermarket stuff.

Put it this way, nothing smokes in a diesel like Tesco stuff...

 

[Rainmaker]

Wait so you are reporting an MPG range of between 50mpg and high 30mpg's on the same car simply through a change in the brand of diesel?

What car is this?

****roen Berlingo. I'm not saying the Murco fuel was magical and made a huge MPG increase. I'm saying Tesco fuel is so bad I may as well have peed in the tank. The "increase" on Murco fuel was actually only hitting advertised MPG ranges anyway... The Tesco fuel simply massacred economy while smoking so badly you could hardly see out of the back.

Maybe our local Tesco just has a really bad, water filled storage tank? LOL

EDIT: Please remember that the Murco and Shell close to me are actually cheaper than Tesco on average, as due to their locations they compete heavily with one another whereas Tesco is further out. In other words, I'm not trying to self-justify spending 6ppl extra on "Ultimate" fuel when I said the above... I was actually saving money by using what was, for my vehicle, the better fuel.

 

[Rainmaker]

I don't normally do this, I'm usually quite a rational guy who always forms his posts properly and engages in constructive debate. But on this occasion I am going to break from the norm.

You think that the diesel used in a Citroen Berlingo can vary fuel economy from late 30mpg's to over 50mpg?

LOLOLOLOLOL

I don't think, I know. And I didn't say "over" 50mpg I said on Tesco fuel I regularly got late 30s to early 40s, and on proper stuff (i.e. not Tesco) I got mid 40s TO 50mpg over a week of the same driving. That's a difference of around 5mpg, not at all infeasible in a diesel.

The fact is visually evident. Tesco fuel leaves plumes of grey smoke trailing behind whereas other fuels don't. The car also felt incredibly underpowered and economy was demonstrably down. Why is this so hard to believe? For all you know my local Tesco just happens to have a tank full of all kinds of crud and water and the fuel is not up to scratch or something. Or maybe Tesco fuel just really is rank. *shrug*

 

[Rainmaker]

So why doesn't every diesel leaving a Tesco forecourt leave plumes of smoke?

Actually I know several people in this area (diesel owners) who refuse to use Tesco for this very reason (smoke and low economy). I don't assert it to be a national phenomena, nor even an absolute local one - I'm simply saying my car - and apparently those of some others I know - absolutely hated Tesco fuel and ran like a dog on it.

In fact a quick Google search shows up much the same thing. "It's only Tesco diesel I avoid"... "Tesco fuel is very smoky"... "I wouldn't use Tesco unless I really had to."...

This Mondeo thread demonstrates my point nicely:

http://www.fordmondeo.org/forum/printpost.php?tid/795791/

 

[Rainmaker]

How on Earth is it so difficult to believe that one brand of fuel can cause a diesel to smoke more than another, or perform differently? This isn't petrol where you get your 95 RON regardless of the pump.

For example, let's say Tesco's diesel meets bare minimum EN 590 spec. That's a minimum cetane index of 46 and a minimum cetane number of 51. BP and Shell on the other hand, have a minimum of 55 and often much more (60 ish). That's going off their own figures. So how in hell do you find it so amusing that one could burn more cleanly and efficiently than the other? This is not petrol. It'd be like you filling up on 70 RON and 95 RON and saying there's nothing in it (cetane is NOT RON, I'm just making a loose analogy).

What's so comical about that? Fox you keep laughing at me and saying Tesco diesel is 'fine' - but how many diesels have you driven, how many diesels do you own, and how much do you know about diesel as a fuel? To say that a fuel with a cetane of 46 is not going to burn any differently from one with a cetane of 55 to 60 is laughable. You can laugh all you like, but tbh it just shows your ignorance of diesel fuel in general.

The fact the net is literally heaving with people who happened to have found the same as me (Tesco diesel - NOT just 'supermarket diesel' but TESCO diesel) smokes where no other does, and burns less efficiently, might 'just be a coincidence' but I don't think so.

But if it makes you feel any better, I am wrong - along with everyone else who has owned diesels for years and found that Tesco diesel smokes more, and gives less power/economy than Shell/BP. You are right; diesel is just like petrol, it's the same 95 RON no matter where you buy it.



EDIT: Oh and regarding why ALL cars filling up at Tesco don't smoke... Most diesels these days (actually pretty much all) are obliged to be fitted with a diesel particulate filter (DPF) by law. This is to meet Euro V emissions regulations. As such the fuel can smoke its **** off but the exhaust will be as clean as a whistle. You won't know the difference until you're faced with an £800+ bill for a new DPF. My last car didn't have a DPF and I can assure you Tesco diesel smokes like a bitch.