Mutable

starscream · 31 Jan 2007 at 17:33

VIRII said:
To suddenly come out with the post he came out with after 9 pages of discussion it does make it pretentious.

Pretentious? il?

VIRII · 31 Jan 2007 at 21:15

starscream said:
Pretentious? il?

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Vonhelmet · 31 Jan 2007 at 21:20

I've used immutable, and I'd guess I've probably used mutable, but I couldn't say for sure.

I've definitely used obfuscate.

VIRII · 31 Jan 2007 at 21:26

vonhelmet said:
I've used immutable, and I'd guess I've probably used mutable, but I couldn't say for sure.

I've definitely used obfuscate.

In general conversation or in more technical discussions?

Vonhelmet · 31 Jan 2007 at 21:37

VIRII said:
In general conversation or in more technical discussions?

I'd say moderately technical, but not like programming or the stuff you mentioned earlier. Just times when I needed to say "unchangeable" or "hide/muddy/render unclear".

They're good words in the right context. Sure, they're a bit fancy, but sometimes the fancy words fit right.

My dad used "hubris" the other day. I had to look that one up. He was saying the Millenium Dome was a monument of Blair's hubris. I agreed, once I knew what it meant.

NathanE · 31 Jan 2007 at 21:40

Rob is a nice guy. I think it's a bit sad to have started this thread. If anything you've invalidated your argument simply by starting this thread IMO (as you're now effectively trying to "one up" him like you say he was). Maybe you should add Rob to MSN and settle your differences that way...

MrWhippy · 31 Jan 2007 at 21:57

i've used obfuscate plenty, but i am a software engineer so...

VIRII · 31 Jan 2007 at 22:01

NathanE said:
Rob is a nice guy. I think it's a bit sad to have started this thread. If anything you've invalidated your argument simply by starting this thread IMO (as you're now effectively trying to "one up" him like you say he was). Maybe you should add Rob to MSN and settle your differences that way...

It was not my intention to make this thread about him hence I obfuscated his name

The thread is about the words themselves.

VIRII · 31 Jan 2007 at 22:02

MrWhippy said:
i've used obfuscate plenty, but i am a software engineer so...

Where would you use that in software/programming. I know nothing about programming but it seems a common word within programming and amongst programmers.

MrWhippy · 31 Jan 2007 at 22:12

VIRII said:
Where would you use that in software/programming. I know nothing about programming but it seems a common word within programming and amongst programmers.

several situations.

it's not uncommon in the software engineering industry to over-engineer a solution. it happens all the time, and in the worst cases, the design and/or code can become a mess, to the point of obfuscation. kind of the opposite of the ideal, "elegant" solution.

then some engineers just take delight in producing terse code, kinda keeps lesser mortals away from meddling.

etc.

VIRII · 31 Jan 2007 at 22:13

MrWhippy said:
several situations.

it's not uncommon in the software engineering industry to over-engineer a solution. it happens all the time, and in the worst cases, the design and/or code can become a mess, to the point of obfuscation. kind of the opposite of the ideal, "elegant" solution.

then some engineers just take delight in producing terse code, kinda keeps lesser mortals away from meddling.

etc.

Ahh right I thought it was some sort of industry standard speak or term.

NathanE · 31 Jan 2007 at 22:14

OK in that case... I use the words now and then, but only in my day job.

'Mutable' in programming is used to describe any object instance that can change. An Integer object in Java for instance is NOT mutable.

'Obfuscation' is a procedure to make it difficult to reverse engineer a compiled program.

If I'm feeling really geeky I might use them in normal speech but I'd probably apologise straight after

Arcade Fire · 31 Jan 2007 at 22:18

VIRII said:
Where would you use that in software/programming. I know nothing about programming but it seems a common word within programming and amongst programmers.

You may or may not know that Rob is a freelance programmer in his spare time. Hence it's not inconceivable that 'obfuscate' and 'mutable' are not obscure words to him, and certainly not inconceivable that they would slip into his day-to-day language from time to time.

As I said earlier, I frequently find myself using words or phrases in non-mathematical conversations which aren't so common outside of mathematics. You get into the habit.

VIRII · 31 Jan 2007 at 23:00

Arcade Fire said:
You may or may not know that Rob is a freelance programmer in his spare time. Hence it's not inconceivable that 'obfuscate' and 'mutable' are not obscure words to him, and certainly not inconceivable that they would slip into his day-to-day language from time to time.

As I said earlier, I frequently find myself using words or phrases in non-mathematical conversations which aren't so common outside of mathematics. You get into the habit.

That is highly possible, the point of the thread was to examine how common these words actually are in conversational useage.

Perhaps we should ask how many people also use autodidactically in the same breath

VIRII · 31 Jan 2007 at 23:02

NathanE said:
OK in that case... I use the words now and then, but only in my day job.

'Mutable' in programming is used to describe any object instance that can change. An Integer object in Java for instance is NOT mutable.

'Obfuscation' is a procedure to make it difficult to reverse engineer a compiled program.

If I'm feeling really geeky I might use them in normal speech but I'd probably apologise straight after

Ahh right so they are fairly industry standard terms then within programming.

phykell · 31 Jan 2007 at 23:15

The question is Virii, are you going to start using these words now?

phykell · 31 Jan 2007 at 23:21

NathanE said:
'Mutable' in programming is used to describe any object instance that can change. An Integer object in Java for instance is NOT mutable.

'Obfuscation' is a procedure to make it difficult to reverse engineer a compiled program.

If I'm feeling really geeky I might use them in normal speech but I'd probably apologise straight after

I agree with your point about "mutable" but I honestly think "obfuscate" is a great word to use and *is* preferable in many cases, to its various synonyms such as the previously mentioned, "confused". Even if one doesn't use the word in spoken language, written language is a different matter and I'm sure most people would tend to make more of an effort to write correctly than they would to talk, apart from "txtspeak" of course

That's why I will happily use it when writing posts in various fora.

VIRII · 1 Feb 2007 at 08:40

phykell said:
The question is Virii, are you going to start using these words now?

Well my language is mutable depending on alcohol content but that might obfuscate the issue...

Nah, I have never liked "obfuscate". I don't like the form of the word, not sure why it is just one of those words I dislike, unlike "galoshes" which has a lovely form.