Mutli GPU solutions Worthless?

[eyetrip]

Really, who cares?

If people are willing to spend the money and are happy with the results, then thats all that matters

Personally find there are enough issues with single cards to be bothered with any extra hassle a multi-gpu setup brings to the table, but thats just me.

 

[Final8y]

Talk to final8y - he has it working

Yep & installed D3DOverrider this morning because BF2142 does not have a Vsync option & forcing from CCC does not work on vista 64, but D3DOverrider saved the day even tho i was getting 100fps before hand but 60fps smoothness is more important.

 

[Dr_Fartypants]

Really, who cares?

If people are willing to spend the money and are happy with the results, then thats all that matters

I don't want to propagate the idea that multi GPU solutions are "worthless", but people have the right to be well informed on what they are buying. It's misleading to assume that you will see the same real-world improvements as average-FPS benchmarks suggest, when using multi-GPU solutions, and people should at least be aware of this fact before they buy. If they still feel it is worthwhile, then great

 

[BubbySoup]

I suggest you actually game on one rather than stare at graphs all day to see how they perform.

 

[Final8y]

With vsync enabled, over the maximum refresh rate of the monitor, the entire issue of 'microstutter' dissapears. It is only an issue for framerates *below* the monitor refresh rate. In this instance, vsync can exaggerate the effect, as the differing frame-render times can cause a rapid switching between the different regimes (30fps / 60fps etc).

...thinking about it though, using triple buffer vsync (as I know you do) should provide a 'damping effect' to the microstutter. There will be more times when you will skip the output of a frame, but the inherent microstutter will disappear somewhat.

Im way above the 60fps threshold for that not to be a problem
I would rather turn candy down than lose my 60fps but im hoping 2x4870X2 will address the candy.

 

[Dr_Fartypants]

I suggest you actually game on one rather than stare at graphs all day to see how they perform.

Unfortunately, until you get out your wallet, stats and benchmarks are all you have to go on.

For me, it came the other way around. I bought a 6800GT SLI setup when SLI was new, and noticed that in AFR mode a given framerate did not appear nearly as smooth as with a single card. It was from here that I searched for a scientific explanation for the observed phenomena

Yes, SLI and x-fire have improved since then, but they have also moved more towards AFR mode (which still has the same inherent issues), since it performsn better in average-FPS benchmarks.

 

[Darkwave]

I used a 3870X2 for quite a while and I'd call Crossfire/X2 cards a success despite microstuttering.

 

[[ui]ICEMAN]

From all my time using multi GPU setups, even back to my old Voodoo 2 12mb SLI setup I've never encountered micro stutter. I used to work as a hardware reviewer as many of you know and even then, with pre release tech never had an issue.

I've been running a 30" 2560x1600 screen for the last 3/4 years now which pretty much means I have to rely on multi GPU setups to give me the performance I require.

Recently, before my 3 GTX280's I owned 2 9800gx2's and I had no end of issues with these cards, the micro stutter rendered quad SLI unusable for me on my system and even with the one card in, I still suffered from it a little. Many others got away with it just fine, no micro stutter but it does exist, it's not a myth.

However, out of the 10+ SLI/Xfire setups I own and the hundreds I have tested/reviewed, I've only experienced this problem on one set of cards, it is not as common as some people will say and generally is not a reason for people to be scared of going multi GPU. The chances of experiencing it are greater with the more cards you add but my 3 GTX280's don't suffer from it at all. Be aware that it *can* happen but also don't be put off by such a small number of people that suffer from it on 2 card configurations.

 

[Final8y]

I have noticed allot of 30 Inches coming out of the closet lately.

 

[eyetrip]

I don't want to propagate the idea that multi GPU solutions are "worthless", but people have the right to be well informed on what they are buying. It's misleading to assume that you will see the same real-world improvements as average-FPS benchmarks suggest, when using multi-GPU solutions, and people should at least be aware of this fact before they buy. If they still feel it is worthwhile, then great

Exactly the same could be said for single card solutions. Even though some reviews will point out min, avg, max fps, it is not always an accurate indicator of how well a card will actually run a game.

Take the 4870 I just got - its a faster card than the G80's and G90's I have played with, but some things just don't work very well with it. And these are performance problems that don't show up in benches.

I am not saying that people shouldn't be well informed, or that your argument is invalid. Its just that people will never know how well anything will truly run until they try for themselves, whether it be single card or sli/crossfire.

Do whether or not they are getting the performance gains they think they are, its how they perceive things to be running that matters.

I am awfully tired from weeks of bad sleep, so hope I am making sense here. If not, just tell me and I will be quiet

 

[queamin]

I don't know what the fuss is,they are trying to help,it is better to know about those things even if you lucky and never have it happen to you,it would be a lot worst not knowing and having the problems.

 

[tdream]

From all my time using multi GPU setups, even back to my old Voodoo 2 12mb SLI setup I've never encountered micro stutter. I used to work as a hardware reviewer as many of you know and even then, with pre release tech never had an issue.

I've been running a 30" 2560x1600 screen for the last 3/4 years now which pretty much means I have to rely on multi GPU setups to give me the performance I require.

Recently, before my 3 GTX280's I owned 2 9800gx2's and I had no end of issues with these cards, the micro stutter rendered quad SLI unusable for me on my system and even with the one card in, I still suffered from it a little. Many others got away with it just fine, no micro stutter but it does exist, it's not a myth.

However, out of the 10+ SLI/Xfire setups I own and the hundreds I have tested/reviewed, I've only experienced this problem on one set of cards, it is not as common as some people will say and generally is not a reason for people to be scared of going multi GPU. The chances of experiencing it are greater with the more cards you add but my 3 GTX280's don't suffer from it at all. Be aware that it *can* happen but also don't be put off by such a small number of people that suffer from it on 2 card configurations.

You never encountered microstutter? Then you contradict yourself?!

Microstutter is a problem and it is out there. Personally speaking SLi/CF not worthless, but and it's a big but, the cons outweigh the merits and if it was as good as everyone says it is. I would have already jumped on that boat.

I've had a 30" monitor for over 2 years so saying you need multigpu solutions is frankly ridiculous, I've used the x1800xt, x1900xt, then 8800gtx, 8800gt, 8800gts and soon the 4870. While potentially underpowered these cards ran 90% of the games I played no problem. Only one that's having issues is Crysis, and AOC to a lesser extent (but I uninstalled that so no worries )

The people who are proponents of SLi either have it already or have invested too much in it not to work out. When I had SLi I wanted it to work properly so bad, but it just didn't deliver and when it did, it was stuttery.

 

[marscay]

well i can tell you right now that AMD have done something different with the architecture for crossfire on the 48x0 series because i don't see any stuttering anymore, i used to see it quite a bit of micro stuttering with crossfire on the 3870.

testing COD4 @ 1920x1200 4xAA the difference between single card and crossfire is like night and day.

- single card is ok for the most part but it has dips which are very apparent

- crossfire is smooth in any situation, it almost feels like it's dropped in res down to 1280x1024 it's so smooth.

 

[[ui]ICEMAN]

I'm not contradicting myself at all. If you read my post you'll see that I was talking about my other cards *PRIOR* to the 9800GX2's.

I'm sorry but to you an x1800xt might cut it, for me, until this latest generation of GPU's, I have not had acceptable performance at 2560x1600 in many of the latest titles.

I have no need to justify my dual GPU purchases due to money invested, for me it is necessary to enjoy what I do to the fullest. There is no denying SLI/Xfire offers more performance *most* of the time, however it is not cost efficient for most people so perhaps it is you who feels the need to justify why you won't spend that much money on a dual or multi GPU solution.

Also before you start writing anything, there's nothing wrong with not wanting to spend that much money on cards at all, its entirely your own choice and I would agree with you ; multi GPU solutions are most definitely not cost effective! However it's also my choice that I decide to spend $2100 on graphics cards, not yours and to me, it *is* worth it.

 

[straxusii]

Great thread, very interesting observations.

 

[tdream]

I'm not contradicting myself at all. If you read my post you'll see that I was talking about my other cards *PRIOR* to the 9800GX2's.

I'm sorry but to you an x1800xt might cut it, for me, until this latest generation of GPU's, I have not had acceptable performance at 2560x1600 in many of the latest titles.

I have no need to justify my dual GPU purchases due to money invested, for me it is necessary to enjoy what I do to the fullest. There is no denying SLI/Xfire offers more performance *most* of the time, however it is not cost efficient for most people so perhaps it is you who feels the need to justify why you won't spend that much money on a dual or multi GPU solution.

Also before you start writing anything, there's nothing wrong with not wanting to spend that much money on cards at all, its entirely your own choice and I would agree with you ; multi GPU solutions are most definitely not cost effective! However it's also my choice that I decide to spend $2100 on graphics cards, not yours and to me, it *is* worth it.

I think if you read it again properly you'll find you do contradict yourself.
"From all my time using multi GPU setups, even back to my old Voodoo 2 12mb SLI setup I've never encountered micro stutter."

I didn't say an x1800xt would cut it for me now, but back then when games weren't so intensive and that was the best on the market it would cut it.

You have no need to justify you GPU purchases, that's fine and dandy. More money than sense some would say. I do feel the need to justify purchases as would the majority of people, if there's no discernable benefit then why bother right? I mean the fact that nvidia have driven up prices far too high haven't been because of people like you who buy tri sli 280 when the prices were sky high. Thanks goodness for ati

 

[Strife212]

Yeah, FPS shown by programmes etc is higher with SLI / X-Fire but the ingame smoothness always seems no better whenever I've used it.

It's not that its not efficient, it just doesnt work. FPS is higher but frametime is seriously messed up.

 

[Rroff]

One of the causes of microstutter with SLI setups is because the first card is OC'd and the second card isn't. Contrary to common belief - settings one card's clocks in SLI mode using rivatuner, etc. doesn't always result in the other card being OC'd to match. If the 2nd card is showing slower clocks in GPU-Z or everest theres a high chance it is infact running slower.

 

[[ui]ICEMAN]

I think if you read it again properly you'll find you do contradict yourself.
"From all my time using multi GPU setups, even back to my old Voodoo 2 12mb SLI setup I've never encountered micro stutter."

I didn't say an x1800xt would cut it for me now, but back then when games weren't so intensive and that was the best on the market it would cut it.

You have no need to justify you GPU purchases, that's fine and dandy. More money than sense some would say. I do feel the need to justify purchases as would the majority of people, if there's no discernable benefit then why bother right? I mean the fact that nvidia have driven up prices far too high haven't been because of people like you who buy tri sli 280 when the prices were sky high. Thanks goodness for ati

Not going to argue with you but I concede that it could be taken in this way, however it's pretty clear that I was making an addendum to my first point with my paragraph about the GX2's. Quite why my writing style is relevant to the point of this thread I do not know.

I was simply trying to reinforce that through all of my setups I've never experienced a single issue barring one occasion with the GX2's, that was my only point.

Also back when Oblivion was released, a single 8800GTX certainly couldn't cut it at 2560x1600 with everything to max, even the 2 I had would only just about maintain playable framerates with the early drivers!

 

[BubbySoup]

I've had a 30" monitor for over 2 years so saying you need multigpu solutions is frankly ridiculous, I've used the x1800xt, x1900xt, then 8800gtx, 8800gt, 8800gts and soon the 4870. While potentially underpowered these cards ran 90% of the games I played no problem. Only one that's having issues is Crysis, and AOC to a lesser extent (but I uninstalled that so no worries )

90% of games @ 2560x1600 with decent aa/af on a X1800XT? I find that very hard to believe unless fps dropping into the high teens is acceptable for you.