MW2 Cheat Detected WTF?

[Overslop]

LoL @ QuoteWars™ flibby!

But to use that example with macros, it applies very much to RTS games too. Those who use macros have a major advantage against those who don't. I never use them but I know respected players who do that would condemn any form of "official" cheating like kiddie rape, but defend using macros as it isn't bannable...

 

[James J]

Of course there are exceptions. But if you can get banned for things where the lines are vague and then lose access to all the games that engine uses...then Steam goes way too far IMO. Not to mention being blacklisted for having a bad VAC rep.

I just think that bans should only be enabled for the games that cheat has been alledged in. People make mistakes, and for people like me who have invested huge amounts of money into our Steam accounts, this element of the system is a little concerning. It's a low risk of it effecting me personally. But that doesn't mean that it shouldn't perhaps be changed.

Dont use mods or hacks on VAC based games then? Simple really...

 

[Tefal]

Of course there are exceptions. But if you can get banned for things where the lines are vague

Again vac won't ban you for vague things it will only ban you for using a program that directly interferes with the games mechanics (ie using bright pink skins or 10ft models wouldn't get you vaced, but they made commands like sv_pure 1, which when servers use mean it forces everyone to use the default skins sounds and models)

I just think that bans should only be enabled for the games that cheat has been alledged in. People make mistakes, and for people like me who have invested huge amounts of money into our Steam accounts, this element of the system is a little concerning. It's a low risk of it effecting me personally. But that doesn't mean that it shouldn't perhaps be changed.

Unless you play source games it won't affect more than one game.

But really do dl something that gets you banned fro ma vac game it's going to be an aimbot wallhack esp etc.

Ui mods are fine (but again removed from pure servers) so long as they don't affect memory to say mark all players on the radar regardless of if you or a team mate can see them or not.

But to dl a mod that did that you'd have to know what you where doing.

People make mistakes, and for people like me who have invested huge amounts of money into our Steam accounts

If you where playing against someone in Aoe3 who had previously been banned from AOe2 would you want to know?

 

[Tefal]

LoL @ QuoteWars™ flibby!

But to use that example with macros, it applies very much to RTS games too. Those who use macros have a major advantage against those who don't. I never use them but I know respected players who do that would condemn any form of "official" cheating like kiddie rape, but defend using macros as it isn't bannable...

yeah that's like scripts in vac games they aren't bannable but you're generally considered a script kiddie for using them.

Also i think a lot of leagues have ways of restricting them but honestly can't remember.

Does AoE have anything like Xray anti cheat? (3rd party program that takes random screen shots through matches and puts them on the site)

 

[aproctor]

Just to clarify,

I installed MW2 on release day, i not done anything to the game other than install it and play.

No mods, hacks, cheats etc, SP or MP.

The only thing i had was strict NAT, i then used UPNP or something on my router and it the NAT was open.

That was yesterday, today...no play.

 

[Overslop]

No if vac bans you it's certainly not perceived it's full on altering active memory etc something no ui, texture or model mod will do.

But aren't people grumbling about the opening of some console that they thought was OK to do? And are now getting banned for it? Or is that wrong? (not being facetious, I don't actually know for sure)

But they aren't banned?

Nope, they only ban resign hackers now as it isn't worth their money investing in people to look at more time-consuming claims.

It's not to do with steam though it's to do with the game.

Ie if Ae used the same anti cheat system on AE3 and AE3 (like vac on css and tf2) being banned i none would most likley result in you being banned in both, that's what vac does.

it won't ban you from css for hacking in mw2 as they use different engines (so slightly different versions of vac)

I realise this but how about a popular engine like Source? You could "mod/cheat" in one game and get banned in 10.

iirc punkbuster can go much much further than vac and ban Ip's and even hardware in extreme cases which would mean no punk buster games untill you buy a new pc.

I've also read many stories about false positives from Punkbuster and that it's software to avoid using if you can.


On a side-note...I do wonder how much of the aim of these systems is to protect honest gamers, and how much is to force cheaters into buying multiple copies of their games. If their's a strong leaning towards the latter then there's an incentive to ban more people in the grey areas, which again could be very problematic. I don't have enough faith in these systems to want to give them the power to ban me in a plethora of games if they decide they want to.

 

[Overslop]

Dont use mods or hacks on VAC based games then? Simple really...

That's missing the point though James. I don't want to be forced into avoiding using mods just because Steam can threaten me with sweeping bans across my account. It's a matter of principle more than anything else.

Anyways, this all sounds like I'm on a massive crusade against Steam. I have only posted more thanb once due to told I should be banned. Can't leave that sort of comment lying around without defending myself!

 

[Overslop]

(Skipping the rest as it's already been addressed in previous posts)

If you where playing against someone in Aoe3 who had previously been banned from AOe2 would you want to know?

Sure. But I definitely wouldn't want them instantly banned in AoE3. I think the punishment needs to fit the crime.

 

[Tefal]

But aren't people grumbling about the opening of some console that they thought was OK to do? And are now getting banned for it? Or is that wrong? (not being facetious, I don't actually know for sure)

We don;t know the reason for the bans yet afaik.


VAc banns are often very delayed by weeks to months from when they are detected and added to the system, they like to let as many people buy and download the hacks as possible then ban them all at once insted of trying to update every week with every new hack.


Odds are the people being banned now are the ones using the wall hacks and aimbots people have been complaining about so much in the last few weeks. (one of the disadvantages of vacs approach is that it means there is a longer period from a new type of hack coming out to it being banned than if they did it immediately, but it does mean it catches more people)

I realise this but how about a popular engine like Source? You could "mod/cheat" in one game and get banned in 10.

To get banned from source fps's you would have to be full on hacking and tbh it could be no mistake on your part, as an fps gamer knowing that people get banned from an engine is comforting, give s a bit of a threat and tbh hackers often hack in more than one game.

I've also read many stories about false positives from Punkbuster and that it's software to avoid using if you can.

You read lost of "false positives" about most anti cheat programs from peopel trying to explain the "bans on record" tag on thier accounts to thier comunites

But PB has been around a long time so no doubt has issues in the past but now is considered very robust as admins can request screen shots and other tests from players (well players games the player doesn't know about it) and them sent to pb it's self for inspection and a ban if something is a miss rather than relying soley on softare detection.


But in reality if you play big fps there's no way to avoid punkbuster.

On a side-note...I do wonder how much of the aim of these systems is to protect honest gamers, and how much is to force cheaters into buying multiple copies of their games.

Cheaters generally buy scammed/hijacked steam accounts tbh or key codes from different regions they don't but the second or third copy at full price.

Also with games that doesn't have the ad budget of mw2 accusations of rampant hacking can mean the death of them so they need it to work.

If their's a strong leaning towards the latter then there's an incentive to ban more people in the grey areas,

Again vac bans arn't grey areas they deal with modifying things that no reasonable mod would.

 

[Tefal]

Sure. But I definitely wouldn't want them instantly banned in AoE3. I think the punishment needs to fit the crime.

so why say

Not to mention being blacklisted for having a bad VAC rep.

That implies the "bans on record" tag on peoples profile page is something you'd want removed?

 

[Overslop]

Just to clarify,

I installed MW2 on release day, i not done anything to the game other than install it and play.

No mods, hacks, cheats etc, SP or MP.

The only thing i had was strict NAT, i then used UPNP or something on my router and it the NAT was open.

That was yesterday, today...no play.

And I'm inclined to give you the benefit of the doubt. I think if everybody just accepts that VAC banning is perfect then when innocent people get banned, they've got no chance of a reprieve.

(Disclaimer: I don't know this fella and he could well be a cheater! )

(Disclaimer 2: No offense approctor! )

(Disclaimer 3: I'm tired and got a very busy day ahead tomorrow so it's off to bed now. )

 

[Overslop]

so why say




That implies the "bans on record" tag on peoples profile page is something you'd want removed?

Because if works both ways. I would want to know why they were banned and what the offense was. If in theory I was banned for the use of a debatable mod, I wouldn't want to be tarnished as a "proven cheater" for all eternity in all the games I own. I'm not in any way expecting this to happen but if we are to believe that innocents are sometimes punished then the sentencing needs to be moderated accordingly.

An extreme analogy perhaps, but it's the same logic as to why we don't have the death sentence in this country. The accused might have been innocent after all.

Good night Tefal.

 

[Tefal]

just have a read up on what vac bans for mate, it;s never going to be a debatable mod, as it;s an fps game it is more simple than an rts (not having to deal with new buttons taht say build a set pattern of buildings in a set order), it is only for things which read/modify memory while it;s active and things like basicly stuff that is hacking and can not be for anything else.

Vac bans on a database, so everything it detects and bans for has been inspected by the developers and deemed a hack it's not sort of finding things on it's own (ie say you are using a brand new paid for hack out that week the vac system may detect it fiddling with the game but if it's not doing it in a way that is in it's database it will leave it you lone untill it;s updated.)

 

[Amnesia]

i thought opening the console in mw2 was a bannable offence ......also didnt some hack mw2 so you could play on dedicated servers and then those people got banned aswell.
i think they made it clear that if you make any adjustments to the game then you get banned, made it more like an xbox 360 experience where they have total control and no fiddling allowed.

 

[Tefal]

And I'm inclined to give you the benefit of the doubt. I think if everybody just accepts that VAC banning is perfect then when innocent people get banned, they've got no chance of a reprieve.

oh no vac isn't perfect it's had false positives in the past, they've always been overturned and the ban and black mark removed but that was in it;s early days when they devs were finding their feet with it)


Nighty night

 

[iviv]

i thought opening the console in mw2 was a bannable offence.

It is.

To quote some stuff from the steam site:

The following will not trigger a VAC ban:

* Using chat programs like X-Fire
* Playing multi-player mods which do not modify core .EXE and .DLL files
* System hardware configurations
* Updated system drivers, such as video card drivers
* Using custom skins, sounds or maps

And the forum:

VAC Myths
There are some things people often blame or think is true about VAC. Most are false. Below are facts, not Myths ...

* Winamp or HLamp (a plugin for winamp) DO NOT get you banned.
* Using buy scripts, or any other cfg file script will NOT get you banned.
* Custom skins, sounds, etc. WILL NOT get you banned. However some custom skin packs also have cheats installed. Be VERY careful about what you are installing before you install it.
* Microsoft Windows Service Patch 2 won't get you banned.
* VAC does NOT scan your hard drive
* VAC does not exist to make Valve money, but rather because players said they wanted Valve to do something about cheaters.
* People on servers or server admins can't get you banned on all VAC enabled servers.
* Modified versions of maps (clear walls, etc.) do NOT get you banned. If you can connect to a server with a map, it's fine.
* The "AKS WARRIOR" friendslist phenomenon was not responsible for any "false bans" either, it was merely a DB problem.
* VAC does not ban for the ESEA client.

While that second list isn't posted by anyone from Valve, it has been stickied, implying its correctness.

Mod wise, there was one mod which did cause VAC bans, one called Paranoia. This caused a ban because it uses a different opengl32.dll file to allow for fancy new effects to be used in the mod. But this overwrites one of half life's dlls, and changing the core dlls gets you VAC'ed. So yes, mods can get you VACed.

Also, Valve staff can manually VAC people, as has been shown recently, albeit in rare circumstances.

 

[Rroff]

Banning because people used the console in MW2 is a bit silly IMO - the engine has a massive history connected to console being open to players - and most people would have only used it to tweak things like showing framerate, network settings or mouse settings which would give them absolutely no advantage over other players but make the game more suited to the players setup. If they were going to make it bannable they should have done more to remove it from the game instead of semi hiding it away (and opening up some of the more useful settings to the menus).

Any other hooks/file modifications to the game absolutely should be banned tho.

 

[Tefal]

Banning because people used the console in MW2 is a bit silly IMO - the engine has a massive history connected to console being open to players -

IW don't wan that history though, they're going for the mass frat boy xbox style market.

 

[Rroff]

That is at it may - the engine as I said has a long history of console access and I know plenty of 100% legit, long time fps players who have used the console unlocker in MW2 purely because they assumed the console was just overlooked/devs too lazy and not used it at any point to get an unfair advantage - for them to be banned for using it would be a bit off to say the least.

I've never used it myself because I could see the potential for it being bannable down the line but not everyone has the same imagination (paranoia) I do when it comes to these things.

Tho none of them have complained of being banned so far today and I've just been checking the steam IDs of some of these players on vacbans and none are banned atm.

 

[iviv]

That is at it may - the engine as I said has a long history of console access and I know plenty of 100% legit, long time fps players who have used the console unlocker in MW2 purely because they assumed the console was just overlooked/devs too lazy and not used it at any point to get an unfair advantage - for them to be banned for using it would be a bit off to say the least.

I've never used it myself because I could see the potential for it being bannable down the line but not everyone has the same imagination (paranoia) I do when it comes to these things.

Tho none of them have complained of being banned so far today and I've just been checking the steam IDs of some of these players on vacbans and none are banned atm.

Indeed, I agree that unlocking the console hardly seems a bannable offence, as I don't believe you can do anything with it to gain an unfair advantage, though I don't actually own the game, so don't know any exact details. However, this post has a response apparently from steam support from someone questioning what he got banned for:

Hello Matthew, Thank you for contacting Steam Support. Our system indicates that this account has been permanently banned by the Valve Anti-Cheat (VAC) from Modern Warfare 2 Multiplayer for use of cheats or other unauthorized modifications to the game (such as a console unlocker, etc.). We will not disclose the cheats which were detected, nor will we provide the date and time the infraction took place. We have confirmed that the ban on the account was applied legitimately and it cannot be removed. This ban does not affect other titles on the account. The account may still be used to play the single-player campaign and Spec Ops missions. We cannot move game subscriptions from accounts which have been banned by VAC. If you choose to purchase a new copy of this game, please create a new Steam account to register the game to."

(Emphasis mine)

Because VAC uses delayed bans, it may be possible that its just a matter of time for those friends?