MW2 Cheat Detected WTF?

Montegue said:
the mods and other players post their usual dribble
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Well they kinda have to, because left to players they come out with stuff like: (and these are copy/paste quotes) from their MW2 bans:

"EVERYONE saying that they were wrongfully banned have WINDOWS 7 64 BIT. "
"I use a laptop as well, that makes at least 3 of us. Possible connection?"
"One of my friends said it could have been when i changed the volume on my laptop"
"maybe we got hacked by cheats/hacks on servers the game himself connected us to"
"i updated my video card driver yesterday could that be it?"
"VAC detected new security measures/programs as cheats in the new operating systems."
"Antivirus software"
"Valve might have even forced the console opening on us."
"How Many of you have Alien Swarm? And how many of you got it right before you got banned?"

Seriously...
 
Thing is, its very hard for there to be false positives because of how it works - it only detects known hacks. Its not like an anti-virus with heiristic scanning, it simply checks the core game files for modifications, and checks the memory for any known code which it knows to be a hack. How abouts could this cause false positives?

Valve can't say 'you got banned for xyz hack' because then other hackers would know exactly what hack got them banned, and that it wasn't VAC proof anymore.
 
Amnesia said:
but thats just your guess and besides if you need to alter the .exe file to access the console do you really think it is ok to do in an online game ?

now im certainly no fan of mw2 but if they have locked the console because they want players to have an xbox kind of experience then i'd agree with banning those that hacked into it.
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orderoftheflame said:
Regardless of what they're using it for. They're modifying the .exe of the game to unlock features that could be used to cheat. I wouldn't be suprised if VAC can't detect if illegitimate settings have been altered or not, only that the .exe has been modified.

The people that used it for legitimate reasons should have thought when they did it. "Is there going to be repercussions for modifying the .exe?". Anyone with an ounce of brain would think it's stupid.

Harsh? Maybe. It's the right thing to do though. These people will think twice about messing with core game files in future.
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I don't think its ok to modify game data files including the exe and profile (tho obviously modifying the client config files are ok) - however I don't think atleast half of the people using the unlocker actually realise the nature of how it modifies the game and the connotations to cheating. As they see it, it puts back in a feature they are used to having from most/all previous idtech3 based games COD4, COD1+2, SOF, MOH (earlier versions), quake 3, urban terror and so on. To turn around a ban these people now would for the most part be slapping a whole load of ostensibly legit customers in the face at the very least. Most of these people are gaming enthusiasts nothing more.

As I said - I have the experience to know how the unlocker works on a technical level and can imagine the repercussions down the line - which is the only reason why I didn't use it - your average gamer really really isn't that smart enough to differentiate.

The right thing to do is to start kicking these players with a grace period and only ban if they persist in using it.
 
Rroff said:
As I said - I have the experience to know how the unlocker works on a technical level and can imagine the repercussions down the line - which is the only reason why I didn't use it - your average gamer really really isn't that smart enough to differentiate.
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Unfortunately I say too bad to the average gamers that got caught. To be honest, thier beef should be with the people that created the unlocker. Not VAC, Valve, Steam or IW.

IW removed the console because they didn't want people playing with it. People decided to use a work around to access it and got banned. You really don't need to be an expert to see that running a third party program to access something locked in a game is going to end badly.
 
orderoftheflame said:
Unfortunately I say too bad to the average gamers that got caught. To be honest, thier beef should be with the people that created the unlocker. Not VAC, Valve, Steam or IW.

IW removed the console because they didn't want people playing with it. People decided to use a work around to access it and got banned. You really don't need to be an expert to see that running a third party program to access something locked in a game is going to end badly.
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The reason the console wasn't present in the game was vague at best, I think its pretty stupid to use a 3rd party program to access something thats not present (I won't say locked because that pertains to a certainty that isn't present - the state the game shipped in, and with it present in all previous games, its just as valid to assume the console not being there was an oversight or laziness) but I certaintly don't think anyone should be outright banned for it with no reason.
 
Rroff said:
The reason the console wasn't present in the game was vague at best, I think its pretty stupid to use a 3rd party program to access something thats not present (I won't say locked because that pertains to a certainty that isn't present - the state the game shipped in, and with it present in all previous games, its just as valid to assume the console not being there was an oversight or laziness)
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IW being vague to their reason to removing it doesn't justify people messing with core game files. They didn't want people messing with it, people did, VAC bans people. I don't see what's so hard to understand.

Anyone that read the disclaimer for the unlocker would know they were at a risk of being banned, why blame VAC for their mistakes?

Rroff said:
but I certaintly don't think anyone should be outright banned for it with no reason.
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Hopefully they've learnt their lesson. If they want another chance to play, they can buy another copy of the game on a new account.
 
Normally I'd agree with you but as I said the console has massive history... a lot of games don't make it hugely obvious how to access it but don't ban people for finding it. Straight off the bat banning people is just wrong given the background - and as its obvious that a good percentage didn't do it to get an unfair advantage the proper way to handle it would be to kick first as a grace period before banning. Otherwise your just spitting in the face of enthusiast gamers. I think they were idiots for using it I don't disagree but banning them is beyond harsh.
 
Rroff said:
Normally I'd agree with you but as I said the console has massive history... a lot of games don't make it hugely obvious how to access it but don't ban people for finding it. Straight off the bat banning people is just wrong given the background - and as its obvious that a good percentage didn't do it to get an unfair advantage the proper way to handle it would be to kick first as a grace period before banning. Otherwise your just spitting in the face of enthusiast gamers. I think they were idiots for using it I don't disagree but banning them is beyond harsh.
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Looking for the console is one thing, but hacking game files to unlock it is an entirely different ball game.

Had the console been enabled via a flag in an ini file or something, I'd happily agree with you.

It may be harsh, but you can bet that these people will have learnt their lesson and not trust third party apps like this again.
 
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Rroff said:
Normally I'd agree with you but as I said the console has massive history... a lot of games don't make it hugely obvious how to access it but don't ban people for finding it. Straight off the bat banning people is just wrong given the background - and as its obvious that a good percentage didn't do it to get an unfair advantage the proper way to handle it would be to kick first as a grace period before banning. Otherwise your just spitting in the face of enthusiast gamers. I think they were idiots for using it I don't disagree but banning them is beyond harsh.
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Yes, but in those games you have to either hit a key ( ` is the console key for 90% of games, I'd say), or the others usually need some kind of -devmode line added to the shortcut. Having to modify the exe should have been enough of a hint that you shouldn't touch it.

This whole outcry reminds me a little of the GTA hot coffee thing.
 
Sorry but banning people purely because they are idiots is just wrong and possibly arrogant... should be warned first. If they were doing it for cheating purposes then I'd absolutely want them banned.

Colored names is another area... it used to be properly supported in previous titles - sometimes even with a proper UI for it - but entirely missed out in MW2 on the face of it - but people worked out that you could change your steam name to push the color codes through... now 9/10 people use this properly but a few have worked out ways to use it to mask their name ingame or even to make the name above their head look like a friendly version so you hesitate to shoot them at first... if they then turned around and banned everyone who'd used this to change the colors in their names without warning again it would be very unfair.
 
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Rroff said:
Sorry but banning people purely because they are idiots is just wrong and possibly arrogant... should be warned first. If they were doing it for cheating purposes then I'd absolutely want them banned.
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If people were never punished for being idiots, the world would be a terrible place. If they couldn't take the hint, and had to resort to hacking the game to get what they wanted, they deserve banning imo.

These people messed up and have no one to blame but themselves, least of all VAC, they'll get over it in time.

Rroff said:
Colored names is another area... it used to be properly supported in previous titles - sometimes even with a proper UI for it - but entirely missed out in MW2 on the face of it - but people worked out that you could change your steam name to push the color codes through... now 9/10 people use this properly but a few have worked out ways to use it to mask their name ingame or even to make the name above their head look like a friendly version so you hesitate to shoot them at first... if they then turned around and banned everyone who'd used this to change the colors in their names without warning again it would be very unfair.
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Nobody's going to get banned for that, it's part of the game. People may be being gimps with it, but they're not modifying game files to do it.
 
Thats the thing... to quite a few people who aren't so switched on - getting console access seems just as innocuous as changing your name in steam to push through the color codes.
 
Rroff said:
Thats the thing... to quite a few people who aren't so switched on - getting console access seems just as innocuous as changing your name in steam to push through the color codes.
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This isn't a case of dopey people being caught out. These players that have been banned would have had to be switched on to google for the unlocker and make a choice about whether to use it or not.

The chose to hack their game, and got banned for it. As they should have.
 
I LAN/play online with quite a few people who use it - and tried to talk them into not using it - they simply don't appreciate it in the same light as hacking the game, they don't understand the nature of the way it hooks into the game to do what it does or how close that is to the nature of hacking. They don't have any bad intentions they just see it as a program that puts back in the console which they consider should have been there in the first place. I know this point of view is kinda hard to understand but they really really don't deserve to be perma banned for what they have done it really is NOT in the same league as hacking the game to get an unfair advantage. For the first "offence" they should only be kicked.
 
its just not worth risking you're steam account to play this game if people are reporting that there being banned without cheating , obviously the anticheat is bugged and getting it wrong , unless they can proof it,ask them for evidence.
 
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