My DC5 track toy

Man of Honour
Joined
20 Sep 2006
Posts
34,772
Never started a thread about this car, can't remember why!

September 2016

Here I am, back in another Honda and my second DC5. As much as I enjoyed driving the Evo, I never really gelled with it. I should have learned after my first one; they’re quick, there’s no doubt about that however there’s some things which really detract from the ownership experience. As a point to point car they’re a complete weapon, there really isn’t much on the road that could keep with one. Pick the right gear, usually 3rd or 4th, as long as you are above 3500 rpm, point in the direction you want to go and squirt. Some magic 4WD stuff happens and before you know it you’re doing insane speeds for the public road. Therein lies part of the problem.

As a drivers’ car they can feel a little soulless, you don’t really have to work for the performance. A lot of people will say that it’s like driving a PlayStation on wheels. I don’t agree with that, but for outright fun, for me at least, I get more out of wringing the neck out of something. Then there’s the interior, the IX is based on a car that came out in 2001 and it shows. I distinctly remember when I viewed it, I thought to myself ‘why on earth am I spending £16k on something that’s got this interior?'. I almost walked out that day without buying it. They’re not comfortable either, there’s little cushioning under the arse of the Recaro and anything over an hour really grates. I remember doing a stint up to Croft for a track day and I got out barely able to straighten my back or walk properly. Because racecar I said.

On track it’s extremely capable, with the right tyres, some brake upgrades and suspension mods you will be faster than 90% of things that turn up. Okay, that figure is made up, but you get the idea. The weight of the car soon takes its toll, though. If you’re a crap driver, like me, you’ll overdrive the car and go through brakes and tyres quicker than you can max your credit card. 2 sessions and you need fuel; I think I was getting 5pmg on track which is a little disturbing for a stage one car. I did a full day at Spa and I went through 5 or 6 tanks at a cost of £300 or so. The track day itself was only £150 I think? Then there’s the tyres afterwards, and the brake refurb, and the SAS valve broke and… you get the idea. One final thing that I couldn't get out of my head is the overwhelming sensation that something would break. Driving an Evo on track is like dating a stripper, it’s good fun however you soon realise it isn’t the best idea and you expect the worst to happen.

The older I get the less interest I have in having an uncomfortable and noisy car to potter about in. The Evo was sat outside the garage not getting used. I’d take it out now and then for the sake of it. I loved driving it then, but it felt more of a case that I was doing it to justify owning it. Of course when I took it out I’d cane it which involved high fuel usage and speeds on the public roads which could see me losing my license. More track days must be the answer; I always enjoy going to them. But the Evo is a heavy car. I could have stripped it, but I looked at its value and thought better of it. I guess in the end I never really gelled with it either. So I decided to sell it and get something that I could wring the neck of and not worry too much about.

I’d spoke to a few people about this I’d originally looked at a track EG with a K20 in it. They’re quick cars, but there’s something about the image of the EG that I don’t like so I was never 100% on the idea. I’d spoken to a good friend about it and he mentioned that a DC5 was at TGM and needed some TLC. To this day I miss my old one, there’s something about the DC5 that I’ve always loved.

1 owner from import, 66k miles and pretty much off the road for the past 3 years as the owner got banned. I made an offer in the £5k region and it was accepted. So here it is, in its far from perfect paint finish. The sun really has done some work on it!

Here’s the spec:

01'C/W Red seats Black oem wheels.
Gruppe M
RBC
Mapped by Romain @ Eurospec 243bhp.
Full DC Sports system. DC Battery tie bar.
Front and rear Mugen struts, Mugen oil filler/radiator caps.Mugen gear knob.
Eichbach springs TGM FRSU. Oem springs inc (if you want them).
B&M short shift.
Spoon ETD, Spoon Front brace,
Genuine Seibon C/F Rear spoiler.
C/F Bonnet. (Make unknown-oem style).
And some other bits.

Plan at the moment is to get it back on the road so I can use it! There’s an issue with the brakes so I have bought a 332mm Brembo kit, not cheap but worth it I hope. Once it’s on the road and I know what budget I have to play with I’ll start looking at coilovers, seats and maybe some weight loss.

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11th October 2016

Some more pics. I think Mr Dott lives at TGM. I'm tempted to leave the sticker on the intake for lol's.

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New front brake kit fitted with Pagid RS29 pads and TGM lines all round. Tom's put some race car wheels on the front on as the standard wheels need 15mm spacers. On the shopping list.

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New OEM rear discs and Project Mu HC800 pads.

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Front arches have had a quick mop, paint is coming up well. The red bonnet isn't mine, my CF one is getting fixed/painted so it needs something on it for the time being.

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I've had an update from TGM, all seems well with the car. It's been serviced, cleaned, the lip, bonnet and spoiler have been painted or are in the process.

Just ordered some Bilstein B16's, Rota (fake Rays) Fighter in bronze and Federal 595 RSR to go on, should hopefully be able to pick the car up next week
 
22 October 2016.

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Few more parts needed then she's ready. Would have picked her up yesterday but have been let down by a supplier.
 
28th October 2016.

Just picked her up. Bite to eat then driving home. The front bumper is a bit yellow but I didn't want to pay to paint it. It'll do for track.

Loving the wheels and how they sit on the car. Also love the size of the front brakes.

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29th October 2016

Donington on Monday.

Tidied the engine bay by removing the torque damper, earth kit and McDonald's sticker. Plus I've ripped out the amp and cabling.

Annoying the left speaker doesn't work. I swapped them over and it stayed so the fault is at the head unit end but I'm not sure what as all cabling is good.

Oh yeah, toe eye has also been removed.

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01st November 2016.

First track day.

After picking the car up on Friday, I was relishing going out on track. Donington had been booked for some time for yesterday, so I was itching to try the DC5 out in anger. I haven't been really impressed with it on the road

I decided to travel up on the Sunday and then stop overnight in a hotel near the circuit so I'd be fully rested. Well, that didn't work because as usual I barely slept a wink in the Premier Inn. Sad face. I was however over the moon with the 38 mpg on the way up, sat at 70-80 most of the way with no VTEC.

I didn't enjoy Donington previously, as it was a wet and miserable day and I was in an S2000, which was hard work. I wasn't sure what to expect, both about the car and the circuit. It was a foggy start and the track didn't open till around 10 am, a full hour after it should have done. I went out with Kevin up front to get some heat into the new brakes, new tyres and to get a feel for the new suspension. We did a couple of quick ish laps and came in. I had dropped the pressure's to 27 all round and the rears got up to 32 and stayed there all day. I had to do another one or two sessions to get the fronts settled to the same pressures.

Sitting behind Kevin gave me a lot of confidence, he's a very quick driver with a fair amount of experience driving on circuit as well as a lot more in a DC5 on track than I have. We were soon dropping into the 1m24's (guessing here, timing isn't allowed). Traffic ended up splitting us up, Kevin broke into the 1m23's while I remained in the 1m24-1m26 area. A few more tweaks on the car and I think I could knock a few seconds off. Kevin an I run almost identical brakes, the only difference he has AP calipers and I have Brembo, but the same pads and same discs up front. Rears are just standard discs with a basic uprated pad. He's on JDM spec Ohlins and some castor mods, I'm on B16's although my car's been mapped so I have about 20 more bhp than him. Really doesn't make that much difference on circuit to be honest!

In the afternoon I was pretty much out alone and I started to really, really enjoy the car. Much more fun than my Evo and I'd say the S2000 as well. It's also easier to drive than the S2000. I love how the back end moves around and how you can turn the car on the throttle. So far I definitely think I've made the right move.

I was hit by a gear change issue in the afternoon though, I missed 4th a few times and it turns out I've bent a rod that connects to the short shifter. After a bit of faffing about I used a wrench to hammer it straight is again. That'll need investigating further as well as some other minor issues.

So far, so good than. I had really a really good laugh yesterday and I can't wait to go back out on track.


05 December 2016

Not a huge update but this will probably be it for this year. The car went to Performance Autoworks the other week to have some work done. I booked it in for the following:

  • Oil change. Yes, it was done at TGM before the track day, but I figured I'd get it done anyway considering how long the car had been sat previously.
  • Investigate steering wheel wobble.
  • Remove steering rack, fit SHG slider and flush the fluid. It was low and I needed to top it up, but I only had Halfords fluid so I wanted Honda back in.
  • Check/adjust geo - I was a bit exuberant with the kerbs at Donington.
  • Overall health check of underneath, bushes etc.
  • Fix lights as they were bog eyed.
  • Fix EML - I read the code at home so already knew it was the O2 sensor.
  • Fit KTuned shifter cables.

First off, the lights. I drove to Donington in the dark and it was comedy, one of the headlights was pointed upwards I think and the other was pretty much a candle. It was the first time I'd driven it in the dark so I didn't have much of a choice but to continue. Luckily there was enough for me to be able to see, and for the most part the roads between mine and the hotel near the circuit are well lit. I didn't fancy taking the bumper off myself in the cold so I had Rich look at it.

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I'll just quote Rich's email for an explanation.

Headlamps (pics attached) – I’ve sorted these as best as possible, it has non OEM HID bulbs and ballasts “installed” – I say installed but quite frankly the bulbs are too small and were just poking through the mounting hole with nothing to hold them in place. I have fabricated some adapters, bonded the bulb bases to these and then installed them using the OEM retaining clips. This is about as good as it can be, the light pattern is much better now but the lens could do with a good polish to improve things further.

I can't really add to that. I may get the headlights done next year, but having driven it in the dark the other evening, I can say that they are substantially improved! Still, not as good as I remember the OEM lights being. Sadly they are expensive and few and far between, so I think I'll leave it after a polish has been done.

Onto the wheel wobble. I'm not sure if I'd mentioned, but I was getting steering wheel wobble when I picked it up from TGM. They'd balanced the wheels so I figured a weight had come off. I took it to my local and trusted tyre place, they did it again but the problem moved to a different speed. I'd asked Rich to look into it confident it couldn't possibly be the balancing. He checked everything over and couldn't find anything. The last thing on the list was driveshafts, these can only be visually inspected so far and at over a grand for new items for Honda I decided to sleep on it. Rich suggested to get the wheels balanced again but use a stud pattern mount instead of the centre bore. So after I picked the car up I drove back to the tyre place for them to do just that. They said they always use a stud pattern mount anyway, but they also said they were quite a way out. I explained I had it done by them before so they let me on my way without charging me. I'm glad to report that the wobble has gone.

Rich said the car is in good health. It's been well serviced in its life although no paperwork exists sadly due to 'cash in hand' servicing. Doesn't bother me for the price. He did notice some corrosion though. Again I'll quote his email:

Found some corrosion and paint/underseal stripped on o/s chassis leg under brake reservoir – looks like someone had a major brake fluid spill at some point. I have cleaned off the worst of flaking rust/paint/underseal and have coated with a waxoil underseal to prevent it getting worse – I’ll forward some pics in another email

Before:

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After:

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I don't think there'll be many updates over the winter, I'm even tempted to SORN the car till the end of March and tuck it away in the garage after a clean.

As for plans I've been looking into the following modifications:
​ACT Stage 1 organic clutch kit.
Spoon 5.3 Final drive.
FD2/EP3 (same) 0.738 6th gear.
Kaaz plated diff.
Clockwise Motion gated baffle.

Nice cheap shopping list! I'm also looking at a polybush and a quieter intake, possibly a Mugen.

Massive thanks to Rich at Performance Autoworks for yet again outstanding work.

27th January 2017

Finally fitted a surround to the new head unit. Not the best fit but better than a gap. I had two others to try and this was the only one I could get to fit. However it was freezing so I didn't exactly spend much time on it!

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Genuine 'that'll do' moment.

Also I fitted a new gear knob a few weeks ago as I am not a fan of the Mugen one.

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08 February 2017

All packed for Brands Hatch.

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There's 4 spare wheels with AD08R's on, two more wheels in boxes without tyres, a Mugen airbox, jack, axle stands, toolbox, oil, washer fluid, torque wrench, impact gun, helmet/gloves, warm jacket, workshop gloves, small suitcase in the passenger footwell and some other random crap.

10 February 2017

Well, Brands Hatch. I was always weary of booking a track day in February, however there have been some warm (ish) dry days so there was always a chance it would be nice. Well, it wasn't - it was trying to snow all day and I think it stayed at about 0 degrees. When it wasn't attempting to snow, it was raining. The circuit as a result was like an ice rink, barely any grip and I could feel the back of the car twitching going into a lot of bends including Paddock!

I had a choice of two tyres with me, Federal RS-R's and AD08R's. I tried both out, I think maybe the Federal's warmed up a little easier but in reality in the conditions, they were both as bad as each other. I couldn't get any warmth into the rears at all and the fronts were nearly as bad. Still, I had fun and it's nice to drive the car in such low grip conditions to really get a feel for it. I think something like Uniroyal Rainsports would have been suited better to the conditions!

As I've posted in here I was always weary of the Gruppe M causing noise issues at circuits. I don't think I've ever been anywhere as bad as Brands, that said I wasn't all that surprised to have got black flagged. I had the Mugen with me and the plan was to swap them over lunch, however that was brought forward somewhat! It should have been an easy job, however I managed to round one of the bolts on the strut brace which then took about half an hour to remove. It seems some idiot (me) over-tightnened them... top tip, don't try and fit a Mugen airbox with a brace fitted as it's far from easy. Massive thanks to Carl Hammond on the teg forum for the help he gave and to his mates that gave some tips on removing the bolt etc. I'm an IT guy, not mechanic! All fitted, ignore the breather hose, I've had to borrow the GM one till I get a proper one sorted. The box is also fitted with a single bolt so that needs rectifying.

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Once the new box was fitted it was pretty much lunch time, however I had no further issues with the marshal's thankfully. So it wasn't a massive waste of money. In terms of difference between them, obviously the Mugen is a lot quieter but still sounds really good. I think perhaps the car is a little less eager to rev but that could just be due to the quietness of it as the noise of the GM does make you feel like you're going faster. Also, the car hasn't been mapped in like 5 years, and I've now changed the airbox and exhaust so it definitely needs mapping soon!

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I do have more videos, I'll try and get them uploaded this week.

 
At Doni or Brands? Only used them once or twice at Brands and on the straight bits. The laps of Doni above are a little messy, I did have some cleaner sessions but haven't edited them yet.
 
Yeah I know what you mean. I watch the videos back and I think why am I lifting in Craners as I think the car can take it flat to the bottom, but you never think that behind the wheel on the day. I'm my own worst enemy when it comes to critiquing but I guess it's all about having fun and staying safe, rather than setting sub 1m24's to please the internets.
 
NickK;30498571 said:
Track car... with plastic in the cabin and no roll cage! :eek:

I still have to drive to the tracks and back. I'm going to Spa in April and then the 'Ring, the journey will be bad enough as it is, not a fan of sat in a noisy tin can for 5 hours!

The DC5 is a very light car as it is, I'm really not sure how much weight would be lost, can't be more than 10-15 kg taking most of the rear out which isn't going to gain me much in the real world.

Gaygle;30498575 said:
Love threads like this. Turning an unloved, forgotten about drivers car into a track toy looks so rewarding. You got a bit of a killer deal at £5k for the DC5, right? I haven't followed their prices for quite a while now, but I remember that they never really depreciated at all and are still similar prices to what they were 5-6 years ago.

That day at Brands looks miserable! Foggy, cold and greasy - everything you don't want on track. Donington looked glorious though. I did a track day in December and January and managed to get super lucky on both - clear, sunny, dry but nice and cold for the car.

I paid £4800 IIRC. But I did get a good deal mainly as I knew the owner and he knew I wouldn't strip the car and make a profit out of it.

Brands was pretty dire, yeah, and with it being my first time there a little disappointing, that said it was very rewarding driving near the limit of adhesion.

There was a standard ish Accord R there on road tyres, he was lapping faster than most of the other cars there. Bit of driver knowledge and proper road tyres goes a long way in such conditions.
 
Fitted new nuts on the strut brace yesterday, cleaned a bit of the surface rust beneath where it's mounted but I need to do it properly with some stuff designed for rather than a sponge. :D

Jacked the car up to see if there is a brace underneath as I'd spotted something in the photos from when I was at Brands.

Love how stiff the chassis is. Don't worry, if the wheels come off I do use stands.

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Sure enough there's one underneath. Looks like a Spoon brace.

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A nice little surprise none the less.

Another short video from Brands Hatch but this time with the Mugen intake fitted, you can definitely hear that it's not barking like the Gruppe M does, but I think it sounds great and suits me perfectly. The Clio didn't move out of the way so I came back into the pits quite early.


I've also ordered some parts and I'm getting a load of work done in March. Off the top of my head:
Red Recaro Pole Position seat and brackets, Kaaz plated diff, Spoon 5.3 final drive, EP3 6th gear, OEM clutch, getting a remap due to changing the mods and a Clockwise motion baffled sump.

I'm hoping I can get it all done in march anyway, it's going to be tight in the run up to Spa at the start of April.

I push down there as fast as possible which is unfortunately 110-115mph in my heavy FN2

I'm actually looking at buying an FN2 as a runaround once the new job 2 miles from work lands. I'll be walking and cycling to work and I don't want to use a plated diff DC5 for running around to the shops etc in.
 
Bit of an update, the car has been mapped and had a sump baffle fitted, I also got Rich to fit my Mugen airbox correctly. Before I begin, I would just like to clarify something: dyno numbers. It's what everyone seems the most in interested in when in truth we all know that they should only be used as a tuning tool. Now, the dyno that Rich uses to tune cars is notorious for under reading, so the 235 peak my car made doesn't really tell the whole story. The car was previously mapped by Romain and made 247bhp on the Eurospec dyno. For reasons I won't go into I've always wanted to get it mapped again, plus with changing the intake and exhaust I wanted to know that in my ownership of the car that the fueling is spot on and safe. End of the day the car doesn't get used much apart from being hammered on track or sat at 70 on the way there.

The rev numbers are all skewiff, Rich did explain why but it went over my head. But the torque and bhp curves are true. Here's the before dyno, as you can see it isn't overly smooth and a little lumpy, there's also flat spots which I sometimes notice on the road.

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Here's after mapping.

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You can see that it's much, much smoother and the difference in the torque curve is night and day. Rich told me the previous map was too rich as well. So, a 10-15 bhp gain on the Owen Developments dyno, with a bit of man maths would suggest it's knocking on 260 bhp on Romains dyno. On the way home my mate and I found a private airstrip. He's got an Evo X 300, and from around 50 to knocking on 120, there is nothing in it. He gains maybe 1/4 car length when things get silly. In retrospect, my last Evo with around 400 bhp would pull 1-2 car lengths on the X, so not that much of a difference at all! The Teg does have weight on its side, plus when the shorter final drive goes in it's going to be even quicker.

Now on the road the car feels better, it's smoother both wide open and part throttle, and it feels far more potent when pressing on. I'm extremely happy with the work once again.

That's the car at TGM now to have the gearbox removed.
 
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Well, where to start. The car has been at TGM for the past fortnight or so to have the gearbox removed and have a plated diff put in along with a shorter final drive plus a replacement OEM clutch.

First of all, the diff. I went for the Kaaz Super Q which has WPC coating. It has some advantages over the regular diff, some of which are quieter and smoother operation, longer lasting and no bed in procedures. It costs a bit more but I felt it was worth it. I've only ever driven one car with a plated diff which was a stripped out K swap DC2, I remember the noise being quite savage. I've also heard the TGM race cars moving about and you can definitely tell it's not a normal diff! Part of me wanted that (probably for scene points at tracks), so when I picked it up from Tom's I was a little disappointed that it sounds almost OEM! But now upon reflection that's probably a good thing in the long run. The diff really has transformed the car, even more so than the difference between a DC5 and an EP3 with no diff. It's absolutely savage, it's turned the car into a complete and utter weapon. I was driving around today trying to induce understeer but it was impossible, the car will go in whatever direction you are pointing the wheels, which is actually a downside at times because you really have to watch what you're doing. The steering does not return to centre as easily as before so it's quite easy to get on the power after a corner yet you're pointing at a kerb, bush or small child. I really can't wait to try it out on track, I think it's going to be a lot of fun! In terms of normal driving, you really do know it's there especially when cornering at low speed. The best way I can describe it is when you kangaroo in first, well, if there's any throttle applied and you're parking or whatever, the car kangaroos a little bit. Not so much that it makes it a pain, but it's definitely noticeable. You can also hear the inside wheel aggressively gripping into the tarmac.

I also had the Spoon 5.3 final drive fitted, this basically lowers the overall gearing of the car which means it accelerates faster. I've seen figures of an equivalent 20% power increase, so if my car is running at 235 on the Owen Developments dyno then I've gained an extra 47 horsepower which means it's like having just over 280 bhp under the bonnet. Can I notice it? Well, what I can notice is the increased revs at motorway speeds, 80 mph is now the wrong side of 4500 rpm which makes motorway to be more irritating. Sitting at an indicated 70 and I get 4k rpm which is a good comprimise. At first I couldn't tell you if the car felt faster, but with the nice weather today I've been driving around and yes, it's much quicker! I'm rattling through the gears much faster, in combination with the diff it really does cover quckly ground now - not that it was slow before!

I also had the rear arches rolled, I'm going to be running 225 tyres at the rear and I've read that with lowered cars that they tyres can rub, so rather get it done for piece of mind.

I had a chat with Tom about the car and he told me that the inside of the gearbox is the cleanest he has ever seen at TGM, which is testament to the previous owner and how often he serviced it. There were no other gremlins apart from a broken drop link which has been replaced.

As I picked the car up the EML came on, so Tom grabbed the code reader and it's showing as the primary O2 sensor. The one which was replaced last year which cost me £160 odd! I was pretty sure that it was a Honda original however I've ordered one from Hendy and it is the wrong side of £200! I'm hoping it's here before Spa, sadly TGM don't hold any in stock. Also annoyingly I don't have the rail yet for the Pole Position so that will have to wait.

I also had a sun strip fitted, I'm not quite sure on it however it is nice inside the car, especially with the sun being out today! It also makes the cockpit view much more aggressive.

I've also replaced the Gruppe M scuttle with an OEM one, but Des lost a clip so I'll have to find one from somewhere. There is a rattle at over 8k rpm so I need to look into that.

I also fitted the black Rota's today with wider AD08R tyres ready for Spa and the 'Ring, I'm not sure whether to take bronze ones with Federal RS-R with me or not as an emergency spare in case I shred the AD08R's or get a puncture etc. Still deciding on that one!

While the wheels were off I inspected the brakes, all look good and plenty of pad life so no need to order any spares.

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Here's how the engine bay is looking now, won't win any show and shine competitions however it's functional. You can also see the bracket that has been made up for the Mugen intake hose:

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With the weather being nice I decided to take some snaps. With the car being 16 years old it's a bit tatty in places, I'll slowly get around to replacing things like the plastic around the wing mirror and the surrounds of the windows.

I think it's come along nicely since the OP, well, I should hope so with the money I've piled into it! But I'm currently a very happy man, the car is just insane to drive.


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No, I decided against it because there will be some tracks I will need to go into 6th and apparently it's like hitting a brick wall with the longer 6th.

It isn't that bad on the motorway, 4k rpm I can live with and it's doing 70 at that. I don't tend to speed on the road these days so not a huge issue.
 
You get a push-button start too.

The biggest bonus of the C-pack is the rear wiper, the shape of the car means that you need it in all weather if you want to be able to see out the back. Less of a problem for a track car, but very useful on the road.
The start button is an optional extra, my first DC5 which was a C Pack didn't have one.

Agreed, it's annoying at town speeds in the rain. However on the motorway the water runs off it.

I think your old car is for sale on the DC5 forum.
 
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