My first payed event!
- Thread starter Colin_da_Killer
- Start date
MacX said:And don't hand them over till you get the cold hard cash in your hand....
agreed, as once he has the photos it will be very easy for him to keep cutting the price or stalling hoping you will give up.
I would also make it clear what you will allow the photos to be used for.
cmt
cmt said:
Under normal circumstances I would agree. In this case, the 'customer' appears to be getting a little awkward, and possibly more trouble than he's worth. Mainly though, you don't have a written contract and good luck to anybody who thinks they can get a client to agree to restrictions on usage after the fact.
Personally and in this case, I'd get the £100 (and definately wait for the cheque to clear before handing the pictures over) and run. I smell a small rat, so get what you are due, the money agreed on that night and then don't look back. Just concentrate on what could be your next gig from somewhere else.
For a normal, civilised commission, with a proper contract (and it's amazing how these can morph rapidly into something you don't expect on the day), I would have looked at this gig in this way.
Client has asked me to take pictures of the night. Although I own the copyright, it was on their premises (was it?) so therefore they have also given me explicit permission to shoot on what is technically private land which means they make the rules. Whatever this alludes to should be in writing naturally (under normal circumstances). I'd then price the job up with the idea that the client wants the high quality jpegs etc to do with as they wish and leave it at that.
In this case though I'd give up on protecting the usage of the images with the thought of maybe making anymore money out of them later.
What does work in your favour, is that although he can have a copy to do with as he wishes, there is no written contract that stops you from doing what ever you wish with the images either, AND of course, you still own the copyright.
Does any of that make sense? I've had a long day.
Maybe its just me but it seems very poor form to post all this on the web, in the detail that you have.
That aside. Personally I'd say its €100 (as that was the deal) or you'd just happily use the photos in your portfolio and give him none. Also never talk down your work, most clients won't know a good photo from a bad one, its up to you to upsale what you've done not run yourself down. Personally I wouldn't bend over backwards for any client unless its worth it. It would want to be a very special client at that.
To be honest someone thats going to haggle over £100 is not ever going to worth spending that much effort on.
For reference work out per hour how much you'd get in even a dire job and at least pay yourself more than that, plus any expenses, materials etc. If thats too expensive to be viable, then you need to think about that.
If its just a hobby, then don't wreck your head worrying about money. Build up favors or get someone to buy you a few beers, or dinner.
That aside. Personally I'd say its €100 (as that was the deal) or you'd just happily use the photos in your portfolio and give him none. Also never talk down your work, most clients won't know a good photo from a bad one, its up to you to upsale what you've done not run yourself down. Personally I wouldn't bend over backwards for any client unless its worth it. It would want to be a very special client at that.
To be honest someone thats going to haggle over £100 is not ever going to worth spending that much effort on.
For reference work out per hour how much you'd get in even a dire job and at least pay yourself more than that, plus any expenses, materials etc. If thats too expensive to be viable, then you need to think about that.
If its just a hobby, then don't wreck your head worrying about money. Build up favors or get someone to buy you a few beers, or dinner.
Sparky191 said:
It's probably just you.
Colin_da_killer isn't a pro for a start AND I've seen a self-proclaimed pro bitch so loudly about a wedding it would make you shake your head so hard for a week it would fall off.
Oh and if you want disturbingly poor form, hang out in GD for awhile. That's why I seek refuge in here.
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Ok taken the advice on board and have emailed him again.
P.S MacX I have sent you an email to the email address in your trust info.
P.S MacX I have sent you an email to the email address in your trust info.
Soldato
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Hi Colin, from what I have read the ball is very much in your court. Some of my thoughts:
Don't talk your images down!!! That makes it easier for him to say they aren't good and worth the money originally agreed on, personally I think your images are fantastic, especially as they were taken with a bridge camera without all the options of a full blows DSLR.
Don't give him the images until he has paid you and it has cleared.
Don't take any stick about it being on his property - the images are yours and yours alone - you dictate how much you hand them over for.
You also have the option of drawing up a contract saying he can use them for the purpose that was agreed but not in the future for marketing purposes without written permission from you - and of course extra payment.
I also think it might be worth watermarking and reposting the images. This guy might just try and nick them straight from the website.
Hope that's of some use to you...don't worry about things, there is a whole forum behind you - and you are the one in control of the situation!
Don't talk your images down!!! That makes it easier for him to say they aren't good and worth the money originally agreed on, personally I think your images are fantastic, especially as they were taken with a bridge camera without all the options of a full blows DSLR.
Don't give him the images until he has paid you and it has cleared.
Don't take any stick about it being on his property - the images are yours and yours alone - you dictate how much you hand them over for.
You also have the option of drawing up a contract saying he can use them for the purpose that was agreed but not in the future for marketing purposes without written permission from you - and of course extra payment.
I also think it might be worth watermarking and reposting the images. This guy might just try and nick them straight from the website.
Hope that's of some use to you...don't worry about things, there is a whole forum behind you - and you are the one in control of the situation!
MacX said:It's probably just you.
Colin_da_killer isn't a pro for a start AND I've seen a self-proclaimed pro bitch so loudly about a wedding it would make you shake your head so hard for a week it would fall off.
Oh and if you want disturbingly poor form, hang out in GD for awhile. That's why I seek refuge in here.
I dunno what any of that has got to do with posting private emails on the web.
Soldato
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Oh by the way I forgot to say...the guy said he didn't have time to write a cheque then...but he had time to write you a long email...that also sounds sus...I'd definitely make sure any cheque you get clears before handing over any images.
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They are between me and someone who's email address I removed, all you get is the first name of someone you don't know. Don't make a mountain out of a mole hill.Sparky191 said:
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TheBigCheese said:
Thx for the advice. I'm still waiting for his reply from my last email I sent him and see if he will correct his ways before I put my foot down. I'm not a very confrontational guy and dont like to argue things.
I was about to say pretty much what The Big Cheese said. The ball is definitely in your court. You have the pictures, they're yours, end of story.
As The Big Cheese said, you still have the option of contracting your work. Just for the love of whatever god you worship (even if it's the god of Canon ) don't hand over the photos without something in place.
Like you said, it's all a bit suss. Talk to your lecturer, see what they'd do. In defence of this guy, you have talked yourself down a bit; he may not be expecting much at all. But you need to sell yourself and fight your own corner as well; meet up with him, show him some prints and let him make up his own mind, but whatever you do just don't give him the originals
At the end of the day, if he messes you about you have the absolute power of having the option to format your memory card on the merest whim And he doesn't want that.
As The Big Cheese said, you still have the option of contracting your work. Just for the love of whatever god you worship (even if it's the god of Canon
) don't hand over the photos without something in place.Like you said, it's all a bit suss. Talk to your lecturer, see what they'd do. In defence of this guy, you have talked yourself down a bit; he may not be expecting much at all. But you need to sell yourself and fight your own corner as well; meet up with him, show him some prints and let him make up his own mind, but whatever you do just don't give him the originals
At the end of the day, if he messes you about you have the absolute power of having the option to format your memory card on the merest whim
And he doesn't want that.Colin_da_Killer said:They are between me and someone who's email address I removed, all you get is the first name of someone you don't know. Don't make a mountain out of a mole hill.
Then ignore it don't quote it...again...
My thinking was not that others would know who it was, but that "someone" would recognise their own emails and be ******. Its just bad etiquette regardless if the guys a bully and messing you around.
This is quite simple he made a verbal contract for your (student) photos, was informed of your inexperience and agreed anyway. Now he realises in your inexperience he can probably get you drop the price.
Personally I never do free or cheap work in the expectation of getting more work. Most of the time all you get out of it is more of the same low paid or free work, and in the long run its self defeating. Once a penny pinching client, always a penny pinching client.