My IT Job conundrum

[DiscoDave]

I'm not doing too bad in my IT career, but the only real way I've been able to move up is to switch jobs fairly frequently and be exposed to new things. Experience comes first, then certs, and the advice I've given others in the past is to only get certs on technologies you use in your dayjob. If you're not being exposed to the things you want to learn, time to move on.

Typical examples include people with a CCNP or MCSE but have never touched either in a production environment, it makes them difficult to hire.

 

[opethdisciple]

I'm not doing too bad in my IT career, but the only real way I've been able to move up is to switch jobs fairly frequently and be exposed to new things. Experience comes first, then certs, and the advice I've given others in the past is to only get certs on technologies you use in your dayjob. If you're not being exposed to the things you want to learn, time to move on.

Typical examples include people with a CCNP or MCSE but have never touched either in a production environment, it makes them difficult to hire.

This is true mate. I totally get it. But it's not like I have no experience at all. I've been working in IT now for the past 8 years.

It's just I want to move on from doing 1st line support stuff and more 2nd/3rd line.

I feel like it would help immensely if I had some certs behind me before I moved on, as this would at least cover some holes which are in my current CV.

The Cisco equipment the CCNA covers are in my current environment. I just never touch it as it's not part of my role. (And my boss has no interest letting me touch it.)

I work in a very multi faceted environment.

Windows/Mac clients, Linux servers, Cisco networking, IBM Mainframe, Windows/Blackberry/iPhone/iPad mobile devices.

So it's the works basically.

 

[DiscoDave]

This is true mate. I totally get it. But it's not like I have no experience at all. I've been working in IT now for the past 8 years.

It's just I want to move on from doing 1st line support stuff and more 2nd/3rd line.

I feel like it would help immensely if I had some certs behind me before I moved on, as this would at least cover some holes which are in my current CV.

The Cisco equipment the CCNA covers are in my current environment. I just never touch it as it's not part of my role. (And my boss has no interest letting me touch it.)

I work in a very multi faceted environment.

Windows/Mac clients, Linux servers, Cisco networking, IBM Mainframe, Windows/Blackberry/iPhone/iPad mobile devices.

So it's the works basically.

I can understand your thought processes behind that. CCNA is fairly generic and will help, it simply augments what you're currently being exposed to in your current position, and it helps get past the HR barrier if they're looking for candidates with certs.

I've not read every reply in this thread thus far but have you applied for/been interviewed for any other positions? It's not too difficult to move up from 1st to 2nd/3rd line I don't think.

Also from my experience a big factor is how you come across as a person. To an extent technical skills can be taught, interpersonal skills not as much.

 

[opethdisciple]

I can understand your thought processes behind that. CCNA is fairly generic and will help, it simply augments what you're currently being exposed to in your current position, and it helps get past the HR barrier if they're looking for candidates with certs.

I've not read every reply in this thread thus far but have you applied for/been interviewed for any other positions? It's not too difficult to move up from 1st to 2nd/3rd line I don't think.

Also from my experience a big factor is how you come across as a person. To an extent technical skills can be taught, interpersonal skills not as much.

My interpersonal skills are good. Not perfect as I'm an introvert but good.

You are correct in what you say regarding certs. I would love to be in a company that would invest in their employees. Unfortunately the current company I work for doesn't do this.

I guess I would mind moving in to a similar role as what I currently do, but where I can get more hands on experience.

The problem is to move up from 1st line to 2nd/3rd line they will expect you have have some experience. This is where covering the basics with a certs can fill in those gaps. (I think)

A cert would go a long way to getting me through the door in a new role.

I will feel more confident in my own abilities going to interview having passed an industry exam.

It's also good general information to have.

 

[DiscoDave]

My interpersonal skills are good. Not perfect as I'm an introvert but good.

You are correct in what you say regarding certs. I would love to be in a company that would invest in their employees. Unfortunately the current company I work for doesn't do this.

I guess I would mind moving in to a similar role as what I currently do, but where I can get more hands on experience.

A cert would go a long way to getting me through the door in a new role.

I will feel more confident in my own abilities going to interview having passed an industry exam.

By no means was I implying that was an area you're lacking in, just a observation from previous experience of switching jobs frequently, IE it's not all about the certs and experience, other factors are just as important too. You sound like you have all the bases covered.

Get your CV out there and start applying for a new role that's a step up from what you're currently doing. You don't need to tick every single box that's listed on the job spec. Even put on your CV that you're CCNA is in progress, that will look interesting to a potential new employer. It shows willingness and a appreciation for what you do.

 

[traveyb]

Do you know what you want to do though? I think you need to decide on that first.
Do you have any experience with servers or do you want to just start the MCSA? Problem with this is the lack of experience. Some companies will hire you but most will say no. Maybe aim for a 2nd line position with the opportunity to assist 3rd line

 

[opethdisciple]

By no means was I implying that was an area you're lacking in, just a observation from previous experience of switching jobs frequently, IE it's not all about the certs and experience, other factors are just as important too. You sound like you have all the bases covered.

Get your CV out there and start applying for a new role that's a step up from what you're currently doing. You don't need to tick every single box that's listed on the job spec. Even put on your CV that you're CCNA is in progress, that will look interesting to a potential new employer. It shows willingness and a appreciation for what you do.

It's fine. I didn't interpret it that way!

I'm just a little bit hacked off now at work. It's time for me to move on a became an IT pro. All my work colleagues that deal with the Linux server side config have all had pay rises this year and will be receiving training on the IBM mainframe. As I am not involved in that side of the system I have not received any pay rise and there is still no training.

I've had enough of people calling me up telling me there Thunderbird has crashed, and it turning out to be a 2 hour trouble shooting exercise, culminating in me having to reset up their Thunderbird profiles and adding their 20 calendars back in to Lightning......

I want to be in a place that will let me touch things and systems I do not know. That's how you learn. The problem as servers/mainframe are Linux, I do not have the knowledge to touch it and or my boss has no interest in letting me learn.

 

[Ev0]

Just be careful that you're not pursuing certs in the 'wrong' things.

Going down the Cisco route would suggest a career in networking, or one biased that way.

Whilst there are some transferable skills and knowledge you'd gain that could be used in say a Microsoft support environment, you'd probably be better with MS certs if that's the way you want to go in that example.

Certify in things that are relevant to what you want to do career wise, don't just pick stuff at relatively random

Now that's easier said than done if you don't know what it is you want to do, but try looking for job specs for roles you think you want and see what they are asking for.

Hell if you're working with mainframes I can imagine that's a skill that's in demand as its getting less and less common for people to be working with them!

Edit - posted at same time as the above so obviously not working with the mainframes

 

[opethdisciple]

Just be careful that you're not pursuing certs in the 'wrong' things.

Going down the Cisco route would suggest a career in networking, or one biased that way.

Whilst there are some transferable skills and knowledge you'd gain that could be used in say a Microsoft support environment, you'd probably be better with MS certs if that's the way you want to go in that example.

Certify in things that are relevant to what you want to do career wise, don't just pick stuff at relatively random

Now that's easier said than done if you don't know what it is you want to do, but try looking for job specs for roles you think you want and see what they are asking for.

Hell if you're working with mainframes I can imagine that's a skill that's in demand as its getting less and less common for people to be working with them!

Edit - posted at same time as the above so obviously not working with the mainframes

I've been doing just that. I.e looking at jobs on the varuous websites to see what they ask for etc...

You have to bear in mind that I could be up against candidates WITH experience, so the only weapon I got to combat this is certs.

The Cisco stuff interests me a lot. I've been watching lots of videos the last two weeks and the good news is, it didnt put me to sleep!

---

Some companies might ask you to take a technical proficiency exam too. Some thing that covering the Cisco MS exams will help with.

 

[HangTime]

You have to bear in mind that I could be up against candidates WITH experience, so the only weapon I got to combat this is certs.

Depends a bit on what level you are going in at. It could be that experienced professionals will be commanding greater salaries than what you are aiming for.

When I was younger and lacking experience I did adopt a similar tack however i.e. promoting my qualifications to try and convince employers to take a chance on me at a low salary.

 

[opethdisciple]

Depends a bit on what level you are going in at. It could be that experienced professionals will be commanding greater salaries than what you are aiming for.

When I was younger and lacking experience I did adopt a similar tack however i.e. promoting my qualifications to try and convince employers to take a chance on me at a low salary.

Junior level role. As I don't have the experience to be a senior.

 

[Yamahahahahaha]

Specialisation is where the money is. As long as there's a business using it somewhere they'll pay good money for it. Networks are not going away and not everything can go 'cloud'. Cloud solutions still need someone who knows what they're doing behind the scenes.

Hell if you're working with mainframes I can imagine that's a skill that's in demand as its getting less and less common for people to be working with them!

We do a lot of work with data warehousing for zSeries and AS/400 (i Series, IBM i) IBM systems. Entry level operators get about £45k in London, £65k for senior and the sky is the limit if you can program in any of the compatible languages (Java, v/VSE, RPG etc). Many, many of these systems were introduced in the 80s and 90s which means tons of time, money and business logic has been poured into them that businesses are extremely reluctant to get rid of for the sake of it.

 

[traveyb]

A lot of people don't like the term "junior role" whoever the thing with a junior role is that the company can mould you into shape and you also get valuable on the job experience
I would always rather recruit someone who is junior and willing to learn than someone who has just chucked money at training/certs

 

[Ev0]

We do a lot of work with data warehousing for zSeries and AS/400 (i Series, IBM i) IBM systems. Entry level operators get about £45k in London, £65k for senior and the sky is the limit if you can program in any of the compatible languages (Java, v/VSE, RPG etc). Many, many of these systems were introduced in the 80s and 90s which means tons of time, money and business logic has been poured into them that businesses are extremely reluctant to get rid of for the sake of it.

Yup there's a lot of knowledge leaving the workforce when it comes to mainframes.

I'm not involved with them directly but work with some related stuff close to the products/vendor and I know that expertise in that field is harder to come by and usually nicely compensated

 

[opethdisciple]

A lot of people don't like the term "junior role" whoever the thing with a junior role is that the company can mould you into shape and you also get valuable on the job experience
I would always rather recruit someone who is junior and willing to learn than someone who has just chucked money at training/certs

Sure. But remember I've been working in an IT department for the last 8 years so I'm not a freshy straight out of Uni with no relevant experiences.

I feel like certs at this stage will be a nice complement to my current experiences and will hopefully set me up for a new job and the next stage in my career.

I am ready to take the next step.

I'm not going to stop working in my current role whilst I certify, until I am given a job offer in a new role.

Thats what all my past work colleagues have done, and that's what their telling me to do. But their all Linux people.

I guess at this stage, this is the time I turn round to my boss and say, 'right well I am planning on leaving in the next 6-12 months because I need more exposure to the technologies your using and I think I can get that elsewhere'. Then will see if they want to keep me or not by offering to expand my role.

I've been told by the boss my job is important. I play an important role. What he means is, I deal with all the crap and first line stuff and leave the other guys to do the more complex infrastructure stuff in the mean time.

Their gonna miss me when I'm gone as their gonna have to deal with all this crap them selves and over see any new guy.

----

I just want to take my life and job to the next level. Certifications surely cant be a bad thing, if I am doing it in conjunction with my current role.

 

[opethdisciple]

Yup there's a lot of knowledge leaving the workforce when it comes to mainframes.

I'm not involved with them directly but work with some related stuff close to the products/vendor and I know that expertise in that field is harder to come by and usually nicely compensated

The main frames were using are relatively new. Bought in 2012-2013.

 

[opethdisciple]

Just seen this job posted. Sounds exactly what my job role is.

Except no doubt they would let me get my hands dirty, with more things I haven't touched yet.

Except it's slightly different in that I'm in a Linux environment using LDAP rather than AD and IMAP server rather than Exchange.

I haven't really touched the backup system either.

 

[Yamahahahahaha]

The main frames were using are relatively new. Bought in 2012-2013.

IBM have publicly committed to their platforms for the next 20 - 25 years. It doesn't mean much but it means people aren't in such a massive rush to get off the hardware. Power8 chip performance is barely matched by the fastest Xeon chips can put out.

There's good money in migrating off these platforms as well as getting them to play nicely with Windows and Linux systems.

Just seen this job posted. Sounds exactly what my job role is.

"Investment Manager" means Finance means 'high pressure'. Some places are great, other places are worse than hell.

That role is for a junior administrator, not DSE. Checking backups, application support for Exchange, security compliance are not Desktop Support tasks.

 

[opethdisciple]

Seems all the big money is in banks!!

Heres another one. Big money, simple 'sounding' role:

 

[traveyb]

Sure. But remember I've been working in an IT department for the last 8 years so I'm not a freshy straight out of Uni with no relevant experiences.

I feel like certs at this stage will be a nice complement to my current experiences and will hopefully set me up for a new job and the next stage in my career.

I am ready to take the next step.

I'm not going to stop working in my current role whilst I certify, until I am given a job offer in a new role.

Thats what all my past work colleagues have done, and that's what their telling me to do. But their all Linux people.

I guess at this stage, this is the time I turn round to my boss and say, 'right well I am planning on leaving in the next 6-12 months because I need more exposure to the technologies your using and I think I can get that elsewhere'. Then will see if they want to keep me or not by offering to expand my role.

I've been told by the boss my job is important. I play an important role. What he means is, I deal with all the crap and first line stuff and leave the other guys to do the more complex infrastructure stuff in the mean time.

Their gonna miss me when I'm gone as their gonna have to deal with all this crap them selves and over see any new guy.

----

I just want to take my life and job to the next level. Certifications surely cant be a bad thing, if I am doing it in conjunction with my current role.

Ah yes my bad. I guess I was lucky in that respect as after 3 months of joining my first company (where I started off as an IT apprentice) the guy above me left. It pretty much paved the way to where I am now.
However, at one point I did get pretty fed up and went for a couple of interviews and my boss found out. Got a nice pay rise and promoted to senior as I was a valuable employee.

I think you need to sit down with your manager and say you aren't happy and you want some direction. If he acts like an ass, find a new job where you can progress up.

On the flip side you have been there for 8 years now, maybe it is time to move on