My Mums heating has packed in - cheapest way to get it working?

Mark A

Mark A

Mark A

Soldato
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Lancashire
Hi,

My Mums heating has completely packed up, the fire was condemned by British gas as he said the flame was too yellow and the boiler was not heating up the house with it on full blast, then it started making a bang when it fired up. She now has no heating at all and the house is freezing and she is off work due to a fractured back, so is getting virtually no money at the moment. So I'm just wondering what the cheapest option would be to get the heating working again, as I think I'm going to end up having to pay for it and I can't afford to spend too much.


The current heating system has a 20 year old Baxi gas boiler in the kitchen with a water storage tank in the bedroom above. I think the thermostat, timer and pump are also knackered and will need replacing as both the radiators and hot water come on at the same time even when just selecting just hot water (I replaced the motorised valve and it is still doing it). Plus there is a loud rumbling sound when using the hot water upstairs and very low hot water pressure (I tried cleaning the system by using Fernox, but its not made any difference).


Would it be cheaper to replace the boiler, pump etc and keep the original system in place, or go for a combi boiler and have the water tank removed? Any recommendation of a cheap, but reliable boiler and (pump, thermostat and timer) for 8 radiators in a 3 bed house would be great. Or would it be cheaper to just get a local fitter to supply everything?

Thanks in advance.
 
Your mum eligible for a boiler grant, through your energy suppliers ?

Pointless wasting money on trying to repair the old boiler, get rid of the cylinder, header tank & go for a new combi boiler, more efficient.

You could spend several pounds on parts on the old boiler & still have problems.
 
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both water and heating coming on at the same time is a sign you have a gravity system? if so this is normal not a fault, plumber / gas eng will know.

Look into the new deal where you get the cost of the new boiler added to your energy bill so you wont notice the cost, i believe it guarantees you wont pay more under the deal, so worst case you pay the same in bills but get a new system etc
 
Mark A said:
I think the thermostat, timer and pump are also knackered and will need replacing as both the radiators and hot water come on at the same time even when just selecting just hot water (I replaced the motorised valve and it is still doing it).
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If you do you have a gravity system there is a switch to select gravity mode on back the programmer, so it brings on both at the same time, for normal systems the switch is left in the default position and water / heating switch independently
 
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Unfortunately she doesn't qualify for a boiler grant. She has had two companies around and both told her she doesn't qualify. I'm not 100% sure why, so might get her to ring the CAB and see if they can help, but they have been pretty useless so far.

By gravity system, do you mean the header tank in the loft? If so then yes, it has one of them. There is a switch on the timer that allows you to use just the hot water, for the summer and a switch for hot water and heating for the winter. When you switch it to just hot water the radiators come on as well, which didnt happen before. So I replaced the motorized valve (£64) and it still does the same thing :mad:. Pretty sure it must be the timer unit is knackered as it must by 20 year old.

Its one of these, surprised they still make them :eek:

http://www.discountedheating.co.uk/...mmer_102_339008.html?language=en&currency=GBP

But like Nightglow said it might be better to just get a combiboiler fitted and have the tank ripped out, so no point replacing them.


My other concern is the really loud rumbling sound and low pressure when using the upstairs taps. What could be causing this? I tried forcing water through the system by bridging the hot and cold taps, but it made no difference. Will I need to pay £800 to have the system flushed? :eek:

If anyone could recommend a cheap but reliable combi, so I can get an idea of what price i'll be looking at it would be great. I assume it would be better to source the boiler myself?

HardwareGeek said:
Look into the new deal where you get the cost of the new boiler added to your energy bill so you wont notice the cost, i believe it guarantees you wont pay more under the deal, so worst case you pay the same in bills but get a new system etc
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Thanks, she has a guy from British gas coming around tomorrow to give her some advice, so i'll get her to ask about that. It's just they gave us a price of like £4k last time, which seems way overpriced. If we could save a lot by going with a local fitter, then I wouldnt mind lending her the money and she can pay me back when she can afford it.
 
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Take my plumbing advice with a load of salt, i dont know much, not my field, just happen to know gravity systems do switch both on at the same time, but if it has only just started doing this then i am probably wrong.

Link to some info on this deal and provider search
 
Gravity systems can be replumbed to allow seperate control of heating & water, took me about 30 minutes to do at my mums place.

Google & have look at boiler packs, you get boiler, flue, room stat , programmer.


http://www.plumbnation.co.uk/site/boiler-packs/?manufacturer=vaillant&page=1


Vaillant ecoTEC Pro 24 & the larger ecoTEC Pro 28 Combi is a nice, as is the Valiant 824, had one 10 years been faultless, never broken down.

I would look at either Worcester Bosch or Valiant
 
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British gas have given my mum a few prices.

Vailliant ecotec pro 28kw combi boiler = £1,049

1 year homecare 200
horrizontal flue
internal condensate connection
connect boiler electrics and test
install boiler filling loop
conventional to combi boiler replacement instalation = £1,944.93

Customization and compliance
Building work
Waste collection and disposal = £260.40 - The boiler is going in the same place, so not sure what this building work refers to...


System water treatment and powerflush = £354.59
Customer is not interested in green deal assessment
Vaillant VT50 electronic room thermostat


DISCOUNTS
Cash alternative to FREE HIVE active heating campaign offer = £150
HSA authorised discount = £150

Total price £3,308.92

That seems like a lot for the fitting, or is that the going rate for switching a regular system to a combi system? Bearing in mind I live in the North West.


The price for a regular boiler and replacing the regular boiler was not a big difference. £2,927.96 and they use a British gas potterton boiler. So will go combi I think.
 
Mark A said:
British gas have given my mum a few prices.

Vailliant ecotec pro 28kw combi boiler = £1,049

1 year homecare 200
horrizontal flue
internal condensate connection
connect boiler electrics and test
install boiler filling loop
conventional to combi boiler replacement instalation = £1,944.93

Customization and compliance
Building work
Waste collection and disposal = £260.40 - The boiler is going in the same place, so not sure what this building work refers to...


System water treatment and powerflush = £354.59
Customer is not interested in green deal assessment
Vaillant VT50 electronic room thermostat


DISCOUNTS
Cash alternative to FREE HIVE active heating campaign offer = £150
HSA authorised discount = £150

Total price £3,308.92

That seems like a lot for the fitting, or is that the going rate for switching a regular system to a combi system? Bearing in mind I live in the North West.


The price for a regular boiler and replacing the regular boiler was not a big difference. £2,927.96 and they use a British gas potterton boiler. So will go combi I think.
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As i said before i don't know much about plumbing / gas matters but i would guess BG are correct about work that needs doing pipes / flues etc to comply with regulations but it would be best to get more quotes as BG quotes are notoriously on the high side, try at least 2 more reputable companies, local firms should be cheaper.

Ps. If you mum is ill atm the Hive heating might not be a bad idea as she could adjust the heating & hot water from a phone / tablet / laptop etc if she has mobility problems atm
 
indie quotes x3 BG normally vastly overcharge

Also check about the green deal and boiler scrappage schemes in your area

We weren't applicable for any of the schemes but we went from out old back boiler to a brand new WB 28CDi for~2.5k, including, full new rad's a proper wireless stat and decent TRV's
 
BG rip you off bigstyle, go for an indie.

They will get trade prices, even if they do put a bit on top it'll be cheaper than you can get it with a decent indie.

You'd be surprised with boilers, have a plumber come and look at it and see what needs mending, it could be as simple as a new pump and a sensor, a few hundred quid tops. Could just want a flush and a service, no use giving up on a boiler when it breaks down assuming the worst.
 
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pitchfork said:
BG rip you off bigstyle, go for an indie.

They will get trade prices, even if they do put a bit on top it'll be cheaper than you can get it with a decent indie.

You'd be surprised with boilers, have a plumber come and look at it and see what needs mending, it could be as simple as a new pump and a sensor, a few hundred quid tops. Could just want a flush and a service, no use giving up on a boiler when it breaks down assuming the worst.
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That's what I was thinking at first, but with it being over 20 years old and 65% efficiency rating I think it might be better to not spend any more money on it and buy a more efficient one instead.

I'll get a few prices from independent companies, but there are so many its a bit daunting. I have picked a few from the Vaillant website and think i'll get some for Worcester Bosch fitters as well, as they seem to also get good reviews.

We weren't applicable for any of the schemes but we went from out old back boiler to a brand new WB 28CDi for~2.5k, including, full new rad's a proper wireless stat and decent TRV's
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That sounds like a very good price with the rads as well. Is that boiler a good one to go for? Did you go for a system flush and Magnaclean filter?
 
Someone at work had to just get their heating replaced, and did it through British Gas.

They had some thing (I think its mentioned in the posts above) regarding paying it off interest free through the regular bills (as little/large as desired) over several years.

If your mum is off work, whilst the overall cost might be higher than getting in a local fitter, her circumstances might play the hand you need to do here.
 
Mark A said:
That's what I was thinking at first, but with it being over 20 years old and 65% efficiency rating I think it might be better to not spend any more money on it and buy a more efficient one instead.

I'll get a few prices from independent companies, but there are so many its a bit daunting. I have picked a few from the Vaillant website and think i'll get some for Worcester Bosch fitters as well, as they seem to also get good reviews.



That sounds like a very good price with the rads as well. Is that boiler a good one to go for? Did you go for a system flush and Magnaclean filter?
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Have the old boiler assesed if it can be fixed for a couple of hundred do it, you will never see a return of investment on a new combi boiler before it again needs replacing. Modern boilers even the very best cannot be expected to last more than 10-15 years at which point you will be another grand in the hole for a new one.
 
a1ex2001 said:
Have the old boiler assesed if it can be fixed for a couple of hundred do it, you will never see a return of investment on a new combi boiler before it again needs replacing. Modern boilers even the very best cannot be expected to last more than 10-15 years at which point you will be another grand in the hole for a new one.
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That's throwing money away, on a 20 year old boiler which is knackered & inefficient.

Why will you never see a return on your investment, when I replaced a Baxi Bermuda backboiler with a Valiant 824, at my last place, gas usage in the winter dropped from about £30 per week down to around £15 being put in the meter.
Plus I had instant hot water 24/7, whereas previously there was a cylinder & soon has hot water was drained off, cold water topped it up, & boiler reheated whole cylinder, call that efficient:(.

Why will modern boilers not last longer than 10-15 years, my Valiant boiler is about 12 years old, never broken down, has it's annual service & is still 100% efficient.
 
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Think its the impression the advertising gives, with 7 year warranty any maybe 10 years guaranteed spare parts, gives the impression after 10 years you may be in trouble, but of course popular models should still have parts 20 years later.

Efficiency has now hit around 90/91/92% so upgrading in future for efficiency reasons probably wont be a concern it must be already at the maximum that is practical? may improve another tiny bit but the payoff time would then be like 100 years.

The savings return on investment calculators online seem to work out at maybe 10 years to break even, so if people believe you would then need a new boiler at that point it could seem as soon as you have made the saving and broken even you need the shell out again etc
 
Are Baxi combi boilers any good compared with Vaillient? Apparently my uncle has got a guy who does boilers on his house renovations to give my mum a price and he said £1700 or less, but I've asked for the model number so I can research it as I dont want to pay all that money and then its forever breaking down. (I'll update with the model number when I get it)

Price for a vaillent ecotec 831 was £2450 from a local firm I think (without rads). Worth paying the extra £750 for this boiler over the baxi and the 7 years warranty?

Getting really cold now so need to get it sorted, but half the firms we called didnt even bother to turn up, or even phone to apologise.
 
Yeah, they supply and fit the boiler, I'm not sure if they would allow me to buy the boiler for them to fit, or if the price would be much different. They are also Veillant advanced fitters so it gets the 7 year warranty.

The boiler my uncles mate could get us is a Baxi Duo-tec HE 24kw with a Magnaclean filter thrown in for £1700 and he can fit it next thursday. He said there is a 7-10 year warranty on the Baxi as well.

My Mum really wants the Baxi, but she said its up to me as its my money.

EDIT I think he will need to add £100 to the price as the 24kw wont be enough, so £1800 or so for the 28kw version.
 
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