My rights as a supsect.......

[plasmahal]

I'm seeking my advice regarding a police matter.

Background:

A few weeks ago, I was on my way to work and whilst crossing a pedestrian crossing outside the train station (with another commuter), I was hit by an inconsiderate BMW driver going very fast into the station area towards a car park. We were a third of the way across the crossing in good light and conditions and it was clear before we started to cross. As I was stepping forward my right foot was hit by the car that also swerveed onto the other side of the road to try to avoid us. I was not injured, just shocked at the complete disregard to our safety. The car did not stop nor did we have chance to get the registration number.

Whilst still shocked by the incident, we proceeded into the station to catch the train. Whilst on the platform waiting for the train and discussing the incident, the driver of the BMW came up to me and screamed at me that I had kicked and dented his car. He was extremely abusive and very aggressive and swearing at the top of his voice. I calmly explained that we were crossing the pedestrian crossing. He shouted and swore and said he had every right to be there. The fellow passenger who was also on the pedestrian crossing also explained that the BMW driver was in the wrong and we had right of way on the crossing. He swore again and said he was in the right and then said a threatening statement to me and stormed off. We were totally taken aback and still in shock at this point. At no point did he ask about my welfare or offer any details.

It was all rather surreal, and because I nor anyone else was injured, we kind of left it there as we did not feel the need to confront this nasty person again or felt we were not best placed to go looking for his car.

Two weeks later, whilst entering the station platform, myself and the other passengers who wait in the same place to board the train became very aware of the same BMW driver practically dancing around us trying to take photos of me and the other commuter who was on the crossing during the original incident. We kept turning out backs on him and the train arrived as he scurried off. No words were exchanged. Again this was all very surreal, and later that day, I was discussing the incident with the other commuter and we both agreed it was very odd and we both felt harassed by the situation.

We then decided to go to the local police station as the original incident happened outside the station on the road. Both incidents were explained to the police station staff and a an incident report was raised and we were given the incident number. As we did not have the registration number of the BMW, they felt there was not a lot to go on. But at least we had reported it.

Another 3 weeks pass and whilst on a day off, the other passengers I wait on the platform were approached by the British Transport Police (BTP). One of the ladies was pulled to one side and questioned. They used a photo taken by the BMW driver. It shows her clearly and the back of my head and the other commuter involved, she said our faces were not visible. She was asked if she knew me and basically she could only say she speaks to me in the mornings whilst waiting for the train. She was shaken by the police questioning and said one thing that worried me. She was told by the BTP to not tell me they were looking for me so as not to spook me as they are seeking the person the in photo (pointing to the back of my head) in regards to a case of criminal damage.
There was no indication to this being an alleged incident of criminal damage and why would they not want to spook me??????

So I then called the local police and updated the incident report to say the BTP were possibly seeking me in regards to criminal damage. I then contacted the BTP who took my name and number. Later in the afternoon the investigating officer called me and said they ARE seeking to identify someone in the photo in relation to a case of criminal damage. Again no indication of alleged criminal damage. I said I don't know about the criminal damage but I want to speak to the BTP about a hit and run incident on the pedestrian crossing and about the verbal abusive afterwards. Again he stated the need to find someone in relation to criminal damage, nothing to do with any other incident. I re-stated my position over the hit and run incident and of the aggressive verbal abuse on the platform. He seemed to pause for thought and then asked me to describe the car and the man who spoke to me. I described the car and the man who verbally abused me. At this point he stated he definitely needed to speak to about the criminal damage and asked me if I would come to the station for questioning. I said I was happy to give my side of the story over the phone, he refused and said that I need to come to the station for a voluntary interview. He also stated that I have the right to legal representation as I was a suspect. This shook me a little and I said I didn't understand why I would need legal representation if I was volunteering my side of the story and would I be under arrest. He said I would not be under arrest. He then told me he was too busy to deal with the interview that day or most of next week and he will call at the end of next week to arrange an interview which means I have to travel 30 miles from where I live to the BTP station to provide a taped interview. I also told the officer that had a witness to the hit and run and the at least 4 close witnesses to the verbal abuse (most passengers heard the abuse including station satff).

I now have to wait another week to hear what happens next.

As I have never had any dealings with the police, I am now seeking to educate myself on my rights. I do not understand why I have to go to the station for a taped interview and need the chance of legal representation. I have looked on the yourrights.org.uk and found only info on taped interviews of suspects who are under arrest.

I would appreciate any info or advice from those who know how the legal system works and what my rights are?

 

[plasmahal]

you made a mistake contacting them imo

the fact you didint report the original incident wont bare well.

I did report the original incident to the local police because it happened outside the train station.

I was unaware it was a BTP matter until this week.

 

[plasmahal]

Btw don't take my advice, but if it happened as you said, get onto the train company, there is probably a camera of the incident.
Get your lawyer to request it.
If it happened as you say, creep deserves a burnt out car.

Yesterday I spoke to the senior platform member of staff.

He advised me of the CCTV coverage but was not overly sure how long it is kept.

He did say that to his knowledge, the BTP have not taken any or requested any footage.

I have feeling the BMW driver has waited until the CCTV footage likely to be unavailable as it would clearly show him hitting us on the pedestrian crossing and the hopefully the excessive speed he was travelling at.

 

[plasmahal]

what witnesses does he have? You cant just take photos of someone and go to the police and say 'THIS PERSON KICKED CAR!!!!!'

I would have lost my cool and beat him silly if I was in your place, you handled it well.

No one else is thinking 'typical BMW driver'? jokes...............

The BTP refused to tell me he has said.

I have a feeling he lied.

If he has a witness they would be lying too, they are unlikely to say that he tried to kill me on the crossing and the so called alleged dent was caused by him hitting me.

 

[plasmahal]

Get a lawyer, but to be honest I would have called the police at the time when this happened as its clear from what you said that this wasnt resolved at site.

Hindsight is a beautiful thing......

 

[plasmahal]

You have a witness though (the other person on the crossing).

I'd be, personally, seeking a complaint against the BMW driver - as others have said - go see someone who can give you legal advice.



M.

I will do that now. But they seem only concerned in speaking to me as a suspect.

 

[plasmahal]

Found this on the CAB website:

When can the police question you:

The police should not question you with a view to getting evidence until they have cautioned you. If you have been arrested, you must not be interviewed before being taken to the police station unless:

delay could lead to interference with or harm to evidence connected with the offence

delay could lead to physical harm to others

delay would alert someone suspected of committing an offence who has not yet been arrested

delay would hinder the recovery of property that is the subject of the offence.

If you are cautioned without having been arrested, you must be told you are free to leave whenever you want.

 

[plasmahal]

when you say pedestrian crossing do you mean the ones with flashing yellow lights and stripes on the road?

if so the driver is completely in the wrong as pedestrians have right of way and all drivers must be prepared to stop for pedestrians.

This is a pedestrian crossing with stripes that is directly outside a busy train station at a busy time of the morning.

 

[plasmahal]

So a zebra crossing? I'm confused as to how the road can be clear until you stretch your leg forward to go onto the crossing, and he can be travelling too fast yet his car hitting your leg didn't do any damage.

How do it damage his car and not your leg?

But these things aside if it was a zebra crossing then he was very much in the wrong.

This is what I have been thinking about.

My foot made contact with the car and was very brief. what I would call a glancing blow but there was an audible bang. I suspect my foot was hit by the weakest part of the door on the panel. Bur for all I know, any damage done was already there or has been created or exaggerated since.

I also feel that the whole truth has not been told and hence the stance of BTP in pursuing me for criminal damage rather that talking about my near miss with a car on a pedestrian crossing.

 

[plasmahal]

Just to clear this up.

You said in the OP that you were hit by the car, but not injured. Are you saying the car ran over your foot and didn't injure you in anyway ? Or did you go to lift your foot (whilst moving forward) - then inadvertantly kick the side of his car (maybe making him think you did it on purpose) ?

And did he swerve to avoid you or swerve once he realised he had hit you / or made contact with you ?

As I was stepping forward the car door hit my foot, I think it was the back door and he swerved to avoid us as he crossed the crossing with us on it. As i remember he did not swerve after the impact nor did he stop. It all happened so quickly.

So it was this:

Or did you go to lift your foot (whilst moving forward) - then inadvertantly kick the side of his car (maybe making him think you did it on purpose) ?

 

[plasmahal]

But how can the road be clear when you started moving your foot forward, then presumably less than a second later a car be in front of you?

It was pretty much like that. One second it was clear then he crossed the crossing at what seemed hight speed (30-40mph) for the conditions. There is a corner before the crossing but a sensible person travelling at a sensible speed for an area with many pedestrians in the vicinity would slow down. I get the feeling it's not the first time he's used the station, so he must be aware of the 2 crossings outside the station. He was late for his train and didn't give a toss for anyone else but himself.

 

[plasmahal]

It's quite easy to imagine a scene where the car didn't stop for you at the crossing so you kicked it. If I've thought of this, so will other people.

I agree and from what happened in that split second, I don't remember making a concious decisions to kick a car travelling at high speed. All I remember is my right foot going out as I was crossing and the car hit it.

If the CCTV footage gives the impression that I kicked it, It then must show that we were on the crossing, the car coming down the road at high speed and nearly taking us out on the crossing.

For that reason, I feel the the BTP have not got the footage or they would be looking at charging him with dangerous driving and leaving the scene of an accident.

 

[plasmahal]

Doesn't a car HAVE to stop if a pedestrian is using a zebra crossing? If you can prove this 'damage' was caused during that incident and no other seperate incident involving you which you can with witnesses and most like CCTV then you have nothing to worry about surely.

But yeah, get a lawyer.

I thought cars had to stop if you were already on the crossing.

I have a witness to the car hitting me whilst on the crossing.

The BTP want to question me about criminal damage before talking to the witness who saw the car hit me.

I am now thinking I will ask for legal representation when they interview.

I don't see why I have to travel to see them though.

they can meet me at my local police station and have a solicitor present for my interview. Depending how that goes, I will then ask about pressing charges regarding what happened to me. My witness is happy to talk to the police at any time and be on hand when I'm interviewed.

 

[plasmahal]

Indeed, I feel whatever happened you have painted the story slightly differently to make yourself seem entirely innocent.

I don't believe the exchange at the train station would be completely one sided either.

That's because I'm not a foul mouthed idiot like the BMW driver.

I remained calm because he looked like an idiot and I did not want to do anything with a large crowd watching that may make him look better.

We are all different.

A fellow passenger did say to me once the BMW driver had gone that I had handled that well, if it was him, he would have punched him in the nose.

 

[plasmahal]

Don't worry too much, if the have anything on you they will arrest you if not they will just drop it.

If you do get arrested then get proper legal representation. There is no point wasting 150 quid per hour if nothing is going to come of it.

Watch this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc

why did you not report the Hit and Run to the BTP instead of your local police station?

Also how did you manage to accidentally hit the car with your foot?

I reported it to the local police because it was my belief at the time that it was public road outside the station. I have since learned that is network rails property and therefore the jurisdiction of the BTP. That's another reason why i contacted them rather than wait for them to come and find me.

As I have said a few times, the car hit me on the crossing, I did not hit the car.....

 

[plasmahal]

He will get a free solicitor if he's arrested and gets interviewed. No need to spend a £1000 on legal fee's for nothing more than a 'he says she says' case.

This is what has me concerned. BTP officer said it's a voluntary interview but I have the right to have legal representation and then I think he said the duty solicitor. If I chose that option, we would have to go to a Police station not the BTP station for the interview to be taped.

I have been reading up, and technically they should caution me before an interview as well. All this makes me feel I need legal representation there. Also, as it's voluntary, it should be my right to say where the interview takes place, in this case, I don't think it's unreasonable to have this done at my local police station.

All I feel guilty about is not reporting the incident straight away to the correct police force. I thought I had done right.

 

[plasmahal]

I'm surprised Fox hasn't picked up on this.
Which part of the car hit your foot?
What is the exact damage to his car?

Before you reply consider how far your foot is off the ground when walking.

I'm assuming it's the rear door. It all happened so quickly.

I have no idea as to the damage, the car did not stop. I did not seek the car or driver. Any damage could have already been there or happened after.

All I know is there was contact between my foot and the car. As I was not injured any alleged damage cannot be that severe.

 

[plasmahal]

Try get the witness to give you a witness statement and anyone else there that you recall being present, don't get a lawyer now you will be afforded the right to have one present in your interview and will be free for each interview you have to attend. I would call BTP and request that they recover any CCTV in or about the area, the cctv does not have to cover the area of the incident if its not there but show the manner in which the car was being driven, if this is not done you can bring it up in the interview, when you call always get the Officers name and collar number. (Council CCTV sometimes gets over written every 30 days)

I'm not a leagal advisor but i think your best course of action would to prepare a full statement, read that out on tape then go no comment to all other questions unless they will help in your defence. Also make sure you quote the crime ref number you were given for the incident you reported.

Not a nice situation to be in, but they have a duty to interview you either guilty or not.

Both the witness and I have done separate statements. I tried to give the BTP officer the incident number but he didn't seem interested as if it was not relevant. This I did not understand. surely If i reported the incident to the Police and have an incident report number, they could take that and then look into and get a copy of the report. then we can go from there.

 

[plasmahal]

I very much doubt it, a crime has been reported a suspect has been identified they have a duty to investigate.

Technically a suspect has not been properly identified. They have a picture of the back someone's head. That person might be me, I have not seen said photo.

I called them about the hit and run incident.

 

[plasmahal]

This unfortunately... Sorry OP but unless you were sprinting across the road and bashed the door with your knee then its pretty much impossible that you 'accidentally' caused damage to the car. When walking your foot won't lift off the ground enough to accidentally kick a car door - worst case you'd hit the underside of the chassis with your shin and then you'd just get a bruised shin.

It does sound more like this guy didn't stop for you at the crossing, had a near miss and you reacted/kicked the door. How else did your foot end up so high off the ground as to make contact - for anyone else reading the thread just try walking a few steps normally and see how far your foot comes off the ground - you'll not accidentally kick a car door simply through walking.

It's quite interesting to see quite a few people twisting my OP and then all of a sudden adding to it.

I said the car made contact with my foot. I did not say where or how high etc. I merely made an assumption it was a door. I cannot be 100% sure where on the car the damage (if caused by hitting me) is. At no point did I say I kicked the car or raised my foot higher than normal.

I have not seen the car or the damage. For all I know, the damage was already there or happened after the incident.

The car made contact with my foot and luckily I was not hurt.

I have checked today, and the station approach and about 20-30 metres from the crossing I was on when hit, is marked as 5 mph.

I will be taking photos of that sign and it's position after asking permission from station senior staff. I will take this and other photos from Google's street view along to the interview.

Thanks to those advising about getting a solicitor. I'm going to see what legal advice I can get through work. I also remembered I know someone who is a police officer, so I will ask for his advice.