My Ultimate HTPC project

Cheetah Designs · 29 Jan 2014 at 13:06

So I think the technology is now there to be able to get what I would call my ultimate HTPC, but everything is so sporadic and isolated - there is no integrated experience.

Requirements:
- All media will be streamed from premium services, or on demand content offered free from iPlayer/4OD/ITV Player/Demand Five.
- No "loading" or slow and fiddley TV navigation.
- Low power requirements
- No remotes required - control from any web enabled device (thinking tablets/phones).

Example use case:
- TV is off, I pickup my tablet, choose a movie (all the info is there on the tablet). TV switches on and the movie starts playing.
- During the movie I decide I want to switch on the news. I pickup the tablet (movie still playing at this point), look at the TV guide, click on the news channel. It pauses the movie, switches to the news channel.
- I've finished with the news so I select to continue my movie from my phone (note I've switched devices) and the input changes back to the movie and starts playing again.
- Movie finishes so it either goes back to the news channel or switches the TV off.
- At any point during this interaction I have full control over the TV from any of my phones/tablets/computers.

Devices:
- Low power PC that will always be on running Windows 8. Baytrail has just come out which is perfect. circa. 10W on average which is less than a sky box in standby.

Progress so far:
- I can currently fully control my TV (including switching on and off) from a web enabled device.

Currently working on:
- How to stream premium services and still have the ability to play/pause/resume them at will.

Confused · 30 Jan 2014 at 18:17

Let me try to see what of this you could achieve with XBMC (my current favourite HTPC software)

Windows 8 compatibility is fine - my HTPC is running 8.1, and has been running 8 since release.

XBMC is designed initially for local-media playback, so online streaming services are developed by 3rd party add-on developers.

There is a working iPlayer add-on which I use, there are ITV Player and 4od add-ons, but I don't use them, and I think recent changes to the services may have rendered these non-working.

Other premium streaming services - YMMV - again, these are mostly "hacks" to allow access from within XBMC. As all XBMC add-ons cannot contain binaries, and are python scripts - getting "official" support for premium add-ons... well... you'll struggle - hence the various work-arounds required...

From your use case, I'll explain how I'd do it with my offline media, and iPlayer.

- TV is off, I pickup my tablet, choose a movie (all the info is there on the tablet). TV switches on and the movie starts playing.

A remote application such as Yatse (for Android) will allow you to browse and set off the file playing on the HTPC. Utilising the extensibility of XBMC, you could create a plugin which sends the "power on" command to your TV upon beginning playback

- During the movie I decide I want to switch on the news. I pickup the tablet (movie still playing at this point), look at the TV guide, click on the news channel. It pauses the movie, switches to the news channel.

XBMC currently doesn't display the EPG (when utilising the inbuilt "Live TV" functionality) - however for add-ons like iPlayer, you can browse this via Yatse, and set the news playing, which will automatically stop the movie.

- I've finished with the news so I select to continue my movie from my phone (note I've switched devices) and the input changes back to the movie and starts playing again.

Again, Yatse on your Android phone will allow you to browse to the movie, and there is an option to Resume. This will take you back to the exact point you were when you started watching the News via iPlayer.

- Movie finishes so it either goes back to the news channel or switches the TV off.

Switching the TV off could be done by a script that runs at the end of playback - potentially popping up a prompt asking you whether you wish to turn the TV off or not, and if you have no input (ie you've fallen asleep), setting a default option. Again, this can be written with some simple python scripting.

- At any point during this interaction I have full control over the TV from any of my phones/tablets/computers.

There are plenty of remote applications available for XBMC, on iOS, Android, and via the various web interfaces available too direct from a browser.

So - XBMC could do most of what you want - the sticking point might be your reliance on premium streaming services, and not focussing at all on local media.

As much as I hate to say it - for mostly online services, you might actually be better off with a smart TV, I think Samsung TVs have apps for most of the services...

V4NT0M · 30 Jan 2014 at 19:44

Get a smart TV, you can do everything you want with it.

For example, have serviio running on your PC you can use bubbleupnp on your tablet to choose what you want to watch and it will instruct the TV to play it. I know that at least Sony TVs and I assume Samsung have a tv guide app for phones and tablets which let you browse the channel guide and switch channels remotely.

Conan257 · 31 Jan 2014 at 08:59

I think Mythbuntu would be a better option than XBMC as its designed more at automation and PVR functionality.

Cheetah Designs · 31 Jan 2014 at 12:26

So I have used and contributed to XBMC in the past. Your post is the perfect way to describe why I am doing what I am doing and not using something like XBMC.

There is a working iPlayer add-on which I use, there are ITV Player and 4od add-ons, but I don't use them, and I think recent changes to the services may have rendered these non-working.

Exactly! These plugins have to hack the services to do things they weren't intended to do. The reason they have to do this is because their ethos is cross-platform compatibility where possible. Anything in Silverlight is essentially a no-go.

Don't get me wrong, I will still face issues when the services SIGNIFICANTLY change, but small changes that would break XBMC plugins wouldn't affect what I am working on.

Other premium streaming services - YMMV - again, these are mostly "hacks" to allow access from within XBMC. As all XBMC add-ons cannot contain binaries, and are python scripts - getting "official" support for premium add-ons... well... you'll struggle - hence the various work-arounds required...

Exactly! Most premium services are silverlight - which is big issue for things like XBMC. Won't be a problem for what I am working on.

<the Yatse comments>

Don't disagree with any of this, Yatse looks very fully functional, however because of the issues above, I can't use it. I also have no intension of using my HTPC for live tv. That is the primary function of the TV itself and is best handled there! (IMO)

There are plenty of remote applications available for XBMC, on iOS, Android, and via the various web interfaces available too direct from a browser.

I agree with this also. However, I am looking for just one application that will cover everything. Unified experience. Essentially I am taking the best of everything you have talked about and contraining it to Windows + an internet enabled device for a remote (there will be no interface on the TV).

As much as I hate to say it - for mostly online services, you might actually be better off with a smart TV, I think Samsung TVs have apps for most of the services...

Get a smart TV, you can do everything you want with it.

For example, have serviio running on your PC you can use bubbleupnp on your tablet to choose what you want to watch and it will instruct the TV to play it. I know that at least Sony TVs and I assume Samsung have a tv guide app for phones and tablets which let you browse the channel guide and switch channels remotely.

I aggree with this. My only gripe is no HD (for some premium services). And really really really really slow user interaction - might be down to my early-2013 TV. And the applications will all be seperate. No unified experience.

I think Mythbuntu would be a better option than XBMC as its designed more at automation and PVR functionality.

I will be using the TV for, well, TV. But thank you for the suggestion. I also have no interest in PVR functionality - everything I could want will be available ondemand anyways - or available to purchase.

Confused · 31 Jan 2014 at 12:43

I honestly don't think that an HTPC will do anything that you want it to do

Which is kind of why I outlined how and what XBMC can and can't do for your very specific usage requirements.

I think that a Smart TV with a single remote control is the closest you'll get to having a "unified" experience - and unfortunately for that, you'll have to put up with the speed (or lack thereof) of the smart interface on the TV itself.

As you wish to keep live TV coming via the TV - any external box will require the input on the TV to be changed to utilise live TV, and you immediately get the break in interfaces - hence why I utilise the PVR stuff within XBMC (and my usage model doesn't involve on-demand or premium services) to keep everything within one, single interface - one remote and one 3rd party control method (Yatse in my case). All I need is an AVR/TV that I can control remotely so I can switch them on/off as necessary from XBMC, and I'll only need to have a single remote control in the living room!

db2431 · 31 Jan 2014 at 12:50

I use something very similar to what the op describes, with just an extra step.

pick up ipad, touch icon for harmony app, press turn on tv in harmony app (can use harmony app as I have harmony ultimate hub) tv, amp and arctic mc001 (uses max around 30w) loaded with xbmc all power up

within 5 seconds everything is up and loaded, i then switch ipad apps to xbmc commander which immediately finds my mc001, from there I can pick whatever film, tv show, music, live tv I want (live tv is running from 3 dual tuners running in tvheadend in xubuntu)

If im watching a movie and switch to live tv, xbmc will remember what point im at and if i go back to that movie\tv show it asks if I want to resume from that point.

FerretBoy · 31 Jan 2014 at 13:50

Check out pulseeight cec usb adaptor for those of you on XBMC. That way hitting play on my XBMC remote of choice (YATSE) will turn on the TV, Amp etc

Cheetah Designs · 1 Feb 2014 at 10:54

Sorry I think I could have made it clear. I will be developing everything required to meet my requirements - this is a kind of project log.

So far, from the applications I HAVE DEVELOPED, I have full control over the TV and can play and control bbc iplayer. This means that I can auto change the inputs etc....all programmatically to have the unified experience I want.

@FerretBoy - I am actually using the pulse eight adapter...its the only thing that will allow me to switch on the TV from the application I am developing. Its a shame because that is the only thing its required for...everything else can be done without it

visibleman · 3 Feb 2014 at 21:28

Cheetah Designs said:
- All media will be streamed from premium services, or on demand content offered free from iPlayer/4OD/ITV Player/Demand Five.

Whilst i doff my hat to you for building such a system/setup, i do question why you'd limit yourself to a few streamed channels when you'd get better choice, interface and quality using conventional tuners and HTPC/PVR software (and less headaches, considering you've got to hack your way around DRM streams).

Apart from the streaming restriction, the rest of it is relatively straight forward to solve with existing software/hardware but fair play for attempting it yourself

DiCe! · 3 Feb 2014 at 21:41

Had not seen the Pulse-eight CEC thing...very nice but for £30 ill just use two remotes

Cheetah Designs · 3 Feb 2014 at 22:09

visibleman said:
Whilst i doff my hat to you for building such a system/setup, i do question why you'd limit yourself to a few streamed channels when you'd get better choice, interface and quality using conventional tuners and HTPC/PVR software (and less headaches, considering you've got to hack your way around DRM streams).

Apart from the streaming restriction, the rest of it is relatively straight forward to solve with existing software/hardware but fair play for attempting it yourself

I will be using the TV to view live TV. I often don't remember to record live TV and tend to find things on the on demand services.

When I have done PVR with tuners in the past it has always been poor and slow, even with the latest and greatest hardware. Not sure whether it has changed or not but I can't be bothered with that effort. The TV itself is the best for viewing in my opinion

Begbie · 4 Feb 2014 at 01:40

Cheetah Designs said:
I will be using the TV to view live TV. I often don't remember to record live TV and tend to find things on the on demand services.

When I have done PVR with tuners in the past it has always been poor and slow, even with the latest and greatest hardware. Not sure whether it has changed or not but I can't be bothered with that effort. The TV itself is the best for viewing in my opinion

Skys pvr is awesome really,not sluggish and the epg is excellent.

Cheetah Designs · 4 Feb 2014 at 08:14

Begbie said:
Skys pvr is awesome really,not sluggish and the epg is excellent.

I agree, for the most part. Not as fast as I'd like but still ok. They do have a fairly nice app interface as well. Their box does use quite a lot of power though, even in standby

visibleman · 4 Feb 2014 at 13:57

Cheetah Designs said:
I will be using the TV to view live TV. I often don't remember to record live TV and tend to find things on the on demand services.

When I have done PVR with tuners in the past it has always been poor and slow, even with the latest and greatest hardware. Not sure whether it has changed or not but I can't be bothered with that effort. The TV itself is the best for viewing in my opinion

Using SSD's makes recording/playback near enough instantaneous, although i can't say i ever had issue using spinning disks.

Slightly confused how loading up a web stream can be quicker than streaming a file off a local disk though. And similarly i still don't understand why you'd restrict yourself (with the exception of iPlayer to some extent) to the poor quality streams offered by on-demand services - each to their own i guess.

Keep us posted though; be interesting to see how it pans out