NASCAR 2013 Sprint Cup season (other series discussion welcome!)

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JRS

JRS

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I've been weighing up whether or not I could be bothered making a thread for the 2013 NASCAR season. Two reasons:


  1. Dodge are gone from the Cup, a hole that only Jeff Gordon winning the title will fill for me :D
  2. I'm utterly fed up with motorsport fandom. All of it, NASCAR, F1, touring cars, the whole shebang. Ever taken a step back and looked at just how petty and small-minded most of it is? It's getting like football. Not a pretty sight!

However, despite the loss of Dodge I'm actually quite looking forward to this Cup season. Chief reason for this is the Gen-6 car, the first new NASCAR Cup stocker since the introduction of the Car of Tomorrow in 2007. No longer will the cars be generic shapes with decals slapped on them - now they actually do resemble their respective road cars. There's been a bit more work on safety as well, with larger roof flaps to try and stop the cars getting airborne in a crash, and stronger roll cages for the times when the laws of physics won't be denied. The cars are also lighter - 160lbs has been taken off. 100 from the right-hand side, 60 from the left - the cars tend to run asymmetrical setups even on the road courses, and of course the driver is towards the left side of the car anyway. The manufacturers are now building all the body parts (with the exception of the carbon fibre bootlid) which if nothing else ought to put to rest any bitching about Chad Knaus developing illegal body designs for Jimmie Johnson's #48....


Team and driver changes for 2013

I suppose the first obvious change is Penske. The reigning champions are now running Fords, having set the wheels in motion to dump Dodge before winning the title last season with them. Hey ho. Brad Keselowski will go into this season hungry for further success, but I wonder just how easy he'll find defending his title. Joey Logano is his new team mate, replacing Sam Hornish Jr (who himself had replaced AJ Allmendinger partway through last season after he'd tested positive for a banned substance).

Logano's old ride at Joe Gibbs racing now belongs to Matt Kenseth, who has left Roush Fenway Racing. Ricky Stenhouse Jr graduates from the Nationwide Series to drive for RFR. Regan Smith will drive for Phoenix Racing in the Daytona 500, but won't be running the full schedule for them AFAIK and will instead run the Nationwide Series with JR Motorsports. And Landon Cassill has left BK Racing over a payment dispute, David Reutimann will drive the full schedule in the #83.

The Schedule

Not much has changed from last season, save the Kansas and Talladega Chase dates returning to their previous positions. The old Bud Shootout (the invitational race that kicks off the start of the Cup season) has been renamed the Sprint Unlimited. The field for the race returns to the eligibility rules in place from 2002-08 - pole winners from last season, plus any previous winners of the event who didn't otherwise get in and who qualified for at least one race in 2012. The race will run in three segments, totalling 75 laps. How that will be broken down is the subject of a fan vote, which will be decided next week. The Gatorade Duels have also been renamed, as they're now sponsored by Budweiser.

Rule changes

Qualifying has seen a bit of a shake-up (though the Daytona 500 remains the traditional brain-****!). The Top 35 rule, that guaranteed the top 35 in owners points a start in the race, is no more. Now the first 36 grid positions are set by qualifying times. Positions 37 to 42 are set by provisionals, based on owners points. The 43rd spot goes to any former champion who didn't otherwise qualify, or the next available team in owners points. Instead of using last years owners points for 5 races, they'll now be used for 3. And the qualifying order is now based on random draw, rather than reversing the finishing order from the first practice session.

Tech inspection has changed a bit - laser scans will be taken of each car to ensure that the bodywork conforms. The system was trialled at a few of the testing sessions, seems like all should be well with it.

Finally, the prize money distribution has altered slightly. In a bid to discourage teams from 'starting and parking', less money will be given to finishers in positions 39-43. The 39th finisher will get $4000 less than the 38th, the 40th $4000 less than 39th and so on. The money that would otherwise have gone to those finishers will be redistributed through the rest of the field. Just means there's a bit more incentive to run on and get your car further up the order, and a bit less incentive to park up after ten laps, blame a 'mysterious vibration' and trouser a load of cash from the race promoter!

Predictions

No idea. Honestly, with the new car coming in this one really is up in the air for me. I'd like to see a Hendrick car win it, no question. I like all four of their drivers. Frankly, I'll be satisfied as long as it's not a Toyota driver.

Or the Braindead Moron™.




Or either Busch brother.
 
I think your second point is probably being based on this forum, or internet fans in general, which is an unfair representation of motor sport fans. In real life motor fans are nothing like football, its far more civil and even between highly competitive fans its never aggressive or petty. You never hear of fights or assaults over who won a race, do you.

If you can separate the joy you get from following motor sport from the internet fan culture then you will be fine. Don't let one ruin the other for you.

As for NASCAR, I tried to follow the Nationwide series last year, but the rubbish coverage plus some really dull races meant I lost interest abouts halfway through. I might try again. Is the trucks series still not shown on TV over here?
 
So it's between Stenhouse and Patrick for Cup ROTY. I think Ricky has this tied up, barring some unusual incidents.

As for NASCAR, I tried to follow the Nationwide series last year, but the rubbish coverage plus some really dull races meant I lost interest abouts halfway through. I might try again. Is the trucks series still not shown on TV over here?

Montreal (excluding the last 10-12 laps) and Road America were pretty good.

Speaking of Nationwide, Piquet Jr is with Turner for the full season now, so he's probably a lock for the win on the road courses.
 
I think your second point is probably being based on this forum, or internet fans in general, which is an unfair representation of motor sport fans. In real life motor fans are nothing like football, its far more civil and even between highly competitive fans its never aggressive or petty. You never hear of fights or assaults over who won a race, do you.

Fights and punch-ups, no. But there's an awful lot of negativity surrounding NASCAR these days, and for the life of me I can't work out exactly what has brought it on. NASCAR (the governing body) has been making stupid decisions ever since it was born, so nothing they've been retarded about lately can have caused it. But if it's not people having quite vicious arguments about Dale Earnhardt Jr's worthiness as a NASCAR driver and as offspring of his late, great father, then it's the rampant misogyny all set against Danica Patrick. Or what's becoming full-blown racism about Juan Montoya. Or (and this is hardly new, but was irritating from moment one) the incessant whining about the #48 team cheating.

If you can separate the joy you get from following motor sport from the internet fan culture then you will be fine. Don't let one ruin the other for you.

I'm not. I'm simply withdrawing myself (mostly) from that internet-based fan culture and just watching the racing :) Well, watching the NASCAR at any rate. Still not decided just how many of the F1 races this season I can be bothered to watch live, and have long since given up on the BTCC!

As for NASCAR, I tried to follow the Nationwide series last year, but the rubbish coverage plus some really dull races meant I lost interest abouts halfway through. I might try again. Is the trucks series still not shown on TV over here?

Sadly, the Truck series still doesn't have a broadcaster over here. And FWIW, I agree with you that the Nationwide Series last year featured some truly dire races. I didn't bother with the UK coverage of it, so I don't know exactly how rubbish that was.

So it's between Stenhouse and Patrick for Cup ROTY. I think Ricky has this tied up, barring some unusual incidents.

Yep, that's my thinking.

Speaking of Nationwide, Piquet Jr is with Turner for the full season now, so he's probably a lock for the win on the road courses.

To be fair, he's won at Michigan and Vegas in the Trucks - he knows how to win on an oval :)

Here's the new cars in all their glory.

First up - Ford. Brad Keselowski's new mount for his title defence. Going to be a couple of paintjob tweaks to this one for the season, but it's mostly all there.

fordw.jpg


Next - Chevy. Jimmie Johnson's Lowes #48. Again, couple of tweaks to come.

chevy48.jpg


And bringing up the rear - Toyota. The #15. Hopefully we don't see the Toyotas up front too much this season :p

toyotaiq.jpg



It's so gutting that we won't get to see the 2013 Charger race....it would have been great to see a Dodge in NASCAR that actually looked something like the production car it was based off again :(

dodgea.jpg
 
Fights and punch-ups, no. But there's an awful lot of negativity surrounding NASCAR these days, and for the life of me I can't work out exactly what has brought it on.

Far as I can tell, it's usually F1\European fans complaining about the excessive yellows or the "boys have at it" rule. Oh, and redneck culture.

Danica Patrick.

Well, even as someone who thinks she's capable of running up front on a good day, she was rushed into Sprint Cup too early partly because of sponsor pressure. In fact her Indycar performance dropped off about the same time the Nascar rumours started in mid-2009, and it's not like GoDaddy hadn't already talked about accessing a bigger market. I think the resentment centres around the inordinate attention that certain broadcasters have put towards Patrick in the past.

There's a lot less hoo-ha about Johanna Long, or Jennifer Jo Cobb or the other female Nascar racers, both from the fan and media side.

Sadly, the Truck series still doesn't have a broadcaster over here. And FWIW, I agree with you that the Nationwide Series last year featured some truly dire races. I didn't bother with the UK coverage of it, so I don't know exactly how rubbish that was.

Youtube works fine for me. Yeah, you'll get some dire races with 33 of them on the schedule, and I didn't watch them all myself. In addition to the ones I've already mentioned, Kansas, Texas and Phoenix were also interesting.

To be fair, he's won at Michigan and Vegas in the Trucks - he knows how to win on an oval :)

Of course, but they handle differently to the Nationwide cars, and his run at Bristol wasn't that good (21st). The competition in NW is usually tougher especially when 6-7 Cup drivers step in.
 
The UK coverage of the Nationwide series was just a rip of the US coverage, but with a continuous leader camera and no commentary whenever there was an ad break. It meant half the race was just a fixed camera with nothing but engine noise. It made following the race quite tedious.

I stopped watching live and moved to the highlights show, but even that was far to long and the didn't even edit out the advert gaps.

I'm not familiar with the NASCAR internet culture, but it sounds like its full of fools. I'm assuming the Danica hate is based on her crashing, which from what I saw, happened a lot.

Its a shame, as there is a lot about NASCAR that I really like. The access the fans are given through the broadcast is amazing. Can you imagine Formula 1 broadcasters being able to tell you all the intricate details of what is going to be changed on a car before it pits? They also know how to put on a show.

I think your missing a trick with BTCC. The racing is fantasticaly competitive.

Its a shame you live miles away, or I'd get you down the pub for a pint to watch an F1 race :)
 
The UK coverage of the Nationwide series was just a rip of the US coverage, but with a continuous leader camera and no commentary whenever there was an ad break. It meant half the race was just a fixed camera with nothing but engine noise. It made following the race quite tedious.

I just watched the ESPN coverage.

I'm not familiar with the NASCAR internet culture, but it sounds like its full of fools. I'm assuming the Danica hate is based on her crashing, which from what I saw, happened a lot.

It was strange to see her get involved in so many incidents given she was the exact opposite in Indycar (50+ straight races without a DNF). Then again, most open wheel drivers migrating to Nascar have not been that competitive (at least not in the their first season).

Its a shame, as there is a lot about NASCAR that I really like. The access the fans are given through the broadcast is amazing. Can you imagine Formula 1 broadcasters being able to tell you all the intricate details of what is going to be changed on a car before it pits? They also know how to put on a show.

They also don't DMCA everything online in 60 seconds flat. :p
 
I'm not familiar with the NASCAR internet culture, but it sounds like its full of fools. I'm assuming the Danica hate is based on her crashing, which from what I saw, happened a lot.

See, if it was just about her making mistakes that would be one thing. But keyword there - her.

It reminds me of this xkcd strip:

howitworksi.png


If she was just criticised about her driving (which has been pretty ragged on occasion, no question) then fine. But she's attacked because she's a female driver, and she's pretty, and because she won't simply get out of the way when one of the Big Boys™ wants that piece of racetrack.

I'd swear she's been crashed into more times than she's actually caused a crash. But you'd never know it if all you could base your opinion on was the myopic rantings of the NASCAR fanbase! :p

I think your missing a trick with BTCC. The racing is fantasticaly competitive.

It's a glorified demolition derby, even more so now than in years gone by. Only two manufacturers can be bothered to field works cars. They've still got S2000 cars going up against NGTC ones - why? What's the point? Set a formula, and stick to it!

The mid-'90s was it's heyday, we're unlikely to see that level of manufacturer involvement again while the series rules are set the way they are.

Its a shame you live miles away, or I'd get you down the pub for a pint to watch an F1 race :)

Yeah, that distance does make it tricky to enjoy a pint or three and then drive home!
 
It's a glorified demolition derby, even more so now than in years gone by. Only two manufacturers can be bothered to field works cars. They've still got S2000 cars going up against NGTC ones - why? What's the point? Set a formula, and stick to it!

The mid-'90s was it's heyday, we're unlikely to see that level of manufacturer involvement again while the series rules are set the way they are.

(slight thread derailment)

We won't see anything like the 90's again because of the decline in the global economy. Manufacturers simply don't have the money to plow into motorsport. Its nothing to do with the regulations.

And as for the rules, there has been no S2000 engines since 2011, all cars ran NGTC engines last year. And there were only a few S2000 chassis left, which are now gone. 2013 will be a full NGTC only grid.
 
I'd swear she's been crashed into more times than she's actually caused a crash. But you'd never know it if all you could base your opinion on was the myopic rantings of the NASCAR fanbase! :p

Based on the Phoenix race there is potential for a solid mid-pack Sprint Cup run, but she needs to stay out of incidents. Though that particular one wasn't her fault, Burton sideswiped her and then Nascar race control did their usual last lap non-call (see: Watkins Glen and oil on the track).

We won't see anything like the 90's again because of the decline in the global economy. Manufacturers simply don't have the money to plow into motorsport. Its nothing to do with the regulations.

Try telling that to the bitter Indycar "fans". They want 1990s CART back without understanding what led to it, and that it wouldn't be sustainable forever. They're *still* upset about something that happened in 1996... the man in the question doesn't have anything to do with the sport any more either.
 
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The late 90's/early 2000's boom in manufacturer involvement in motor sport was due to them having large budgets and wanting to exploit marketing by association.

But once they realised marketing by association doesn't really work, and even if it does, it only works when your winning, and their budgets got squeezed they all jumped ship.

Its a shame, but as you say infinite budgets don't last forever.

Whats the 'something' that happened in 1996? I'm not up to speed on my CART history.
 
(slight thread derailment)

We won't see anything like the 90's again because of the decline in the global economy. Manufacturers simply don't have the money to plow into motorsport. Its nothing to do with the regulations.

You and I have had this same discussion over manufacturer involvement in F1 engines. It is absolutely down to the regulations that they don't bother with it - not enough return on investment! :)

And as for the rules, there has been no S2000 engines since 2011, all cars ran NGTC engines last year. And there were only a few S2000 chassis left, which are now gone. 2013 will be a full NGTC only grid.

Two S2000 chassis remaining according to the entry list I've seen. Though now they've let the NGTC cars run higher boost anyway, so expect those two S2000 cars to tool around hopelessly off the pace and getting in the way of everyone!
 
The late 90's/early 2000's boom in manufacturer involvement in motor sport was due to them having large budgets and wanting to exploit marketing by association.

In US open wheel, driver programs and teams were funded by tobacco sponsorship. Players for Canadian drivers like Patrick Carpentier, Jacques Villeneuve, Greg Moore, Paul Tracy. Hollywood brand did the same for Brazilian drivers (some of which are still in the sport today like Kanaan and Castroneves). The ban would make that impossible now regardless of the manufacturers.

1996 was the point where Tony George and IMS split off from CART, formed an oval breakaway series called IRL (which was a joke at first) - however their control over the Indy 500 and the gradual defection of teams like Ganassi, Penske and Andretti-Green due to sponsorship concerns changed that. CART basically went bankrupt three times due to mismanagement (2001, 2004, 2007) before dissolving. Meanwhile IRL had been getting better drivers and adding more road courses.

In 2008 the IRL emerged as the survivor of the open wheel war, but the damage had already been done. Aside from a brief blip in 2005 when Danica Patrick arrived, the viewing figures even for the Indy 500 are half of their peak. Other races barely register on the TV ratings because of the lacklustre deal signed prior to re-unification and fan discontent over the split.
 
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You and I have had this same discussion over manufacturer involvement in F1 engines. It is absolutely down to the regulations that they don't bother with it - not enough return on investment! :)

WRC and WTCC have 1.6 4 pot turbos, and BTCC has 2 litre 4 pot turbos. The most road car relevant engines for the current market possible, yet all 3 series have seen a decline in manufacturer involvement. Its not just about the rules (excpet for F1, where the V6 rules are a complete joke).

Two S2000 chassis remaining according to the entry list I've seen. Though now they've let the NGTC cars run higher boost anyway, so expect those two S2000 cars to tool around hopelessly off the pace and getting in the way of everyone!

Which teams that?
 
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Cheers for that :)

There was a similar disagreement between CART and USAC prior to that which crippled the number of ovals on the schedule, as well as reducing the number of American drivers graduating to top-level open wheel racing. Essentially the seeds of discontent were sown in the 1970s and 1980s.

Add to that the ISC being in bed with Nascar and blocking Indycar's access to most ovals (also Watkins Glen) more recently, and you lose the core fan appeal in the US. Michigan was often the second most watched race after the Indy 500, the street\road course races usually had half the viewership.

To get back on topic: all of this helped Nascar's ascension, of course. The majority of US driver talent ends up there and the series captures the fan interest with a slick promotion machine, not to mention endless TV coverage.
 
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