Native (untranscoded) MKV network playback on TV

[ginjaninja]

Morning All,

im in the market for a new TV. I am considering a premium for a TV that can playback my MKV files.

I have tested a series 8 samsung with content on a local USB drive which was fine with all codecs (1080p, 6 channel dts, AVC high profile, subtitles (couldnt see subtitles but subtitles did not cause a stutter a la xbox).

However network playback testing is not possible in a store.
I am happy to pay a premium for a tv that performs mkv playback natively across network (SMB preferred, dlna otherwise) without additional boxes/cables.

otherwise i will probably buy a much cheaper tv with an extender (liking the look of those ceton echos as all my content is in media browser).

anyone got any experience in this area please?

thanks

 

[LiGhTfasT]

Run a long hdmi from pc to tv. Can't beat it.

 

[triggerthat]

Run a long hdmi from pc to tv. Can't beat it.

I agree.

I stream content using my PS3 (currently using PS3 Media Server and TVersity) and half the films don't play right.

 

[ginjaninja]

i completely agree with the sentiment...but was hoping that 'smarttv' had come of age. The fact that the series 8 samsung can play the content locally gives me hope that it might be possible with the latest generation of tvs.

 

[Defunkt]

My Panasonic ST50 plays all the mkv files i have tried on it and has very quick response time in regards to scrolling through large drives/libraries I used it without a problem alongside Mezzmo for around 6 months before i decided i wanted to have my library displayed in something a bit more 2012 in appearance on screen and to do that you need "movie sheets" so i bought a WDTV live and hated that (believe me the ST50 is better than a WDTV live streaming box) I then bought a Dune HD player. This is what i have now and love it for the graphical appearance on my TV compared to the basic capabilities "Smart TV's" have. That said.. I'm paying a premium for appearance on screen and nothing more. My TV would still play all my (6TB) library without the Dune player and it would actually access and play the files quicker too (only talking milliseconds here and there tho)

As far as the Panasonic TV and it's DLNA/SMB playback and use goes it's top notch. Mkv's require no transcoding the only file type i ever found that did need transcoding was the odd mp4 (some play some don't)
You won't get things like mkv chapter support without using a dedicated media player though if that's something important to you.

As for HDMI cable to PC (as some suggest) i also have this as a back-up but i never use it and am glad not to. As it's really very hit and miss if you have a nice TV. So many factors come into effect regarding the degradation of picture Q. Length of cable, Graphics card, Graphics card drivers. Even the brand of card. All of these factors will make a difference to how good your end resulting picture is (without going into the audio possibilities) Using a smart TV or a Media streaming box takes all those factors out and perform on a pretty much level field. (due to standard specifications used) You will struggle to get the best picture possible on your TV using this method. I'd only advice it if you have a cheap TV and/or substandard video source. Where you won't notice it much or care as much. If you buy a good TV and have 1080p video you are watching then i would avoid going down this route.
(plus you can't use your TV remote! you have to get up to your PC each time to do anything!)

Note: I am on a fully wired network and have no idea about wireless playback/stuttering quality

 

[ginjaninja]

My Panasonic ST50 plays all the mkv files i have tried on it and has very quick response time in regards to scrolling through large drives/libraries I used it without a problem alongside Mezzmo for around 6 months before i decided i wanted to have my library displayed in something a bit more 2012 in appearance on screen and to do that you need "movie sheets" so i bought a WDTV live and hated that (believe me the ST50 is better than a WDTV live streaming box) I then bought a Dune HD player. This is what i have now and love it for the graphical appearance on my TV compared to the basic capabilities "Smart TV's" have. That said.. I'm paying a premium for appearance on screen and nothing more. My TV would still play all my (6TB) library without the Dune player and it would actually access and play the files quicker too (only talking milliseconds here and there tho)

As far as the Panasonic TV and it's DLNA/SMB playback and use goes it's top notch. Mkv's require no transcoding the only file type i ever found that did need transcoding was the odd mp4 (some play some don't)
You won't get things like mkv chapter support without using a dedicated media player though if that's something important to you.

As for HDMI cable to PC (as some suggest) i also have this as a back-up but i never use it and am glad not to. As it's really very hit and miss if you have a nice TV. So many factors come into effect regarding the degradation of picture Q. Length of cable, Graphics card, Graphics card drivers. Even the brand of card. All of these factors will make a difference to how good your end resulting picture is (without going into the audio possibilities) Using a smart TV or a Media streaming box takes all those factors out and perform on a pretty much level field. (due to standard specifications used) You will struggle to get the best picture possible on your TV using this method. I'd only advice it if you have a cheap TV and/or substandard video source. Where you won't notice it much or care as much. If you buy a good TV and have 1080p video you are watching then i would avoid going down this route.
(plus you can't use your TV remote! you have to get up to your PC each time to do anything!)

Note: I am on a fully wired network and have no idea about wireless playback/stuttering quality

Brilliant news/advice thanks...the latest panasonics are significantly cheaper than the samsung 8 series. Web browsing on a tv (and the like) is useful but not worth £500 more.

Just to confirm, your pansonic support directly streaming from a SMB network share AND through DLNA (mezzmo)?

i was looking at the GT50 which i believe is in the same family/generation as the st50.

thanks

 

[AbsenceJam]

As for HDMI cable to PC (as some suggest) i also have this as a back-up but i never use it and am glad not to. As it's really very hit and miss if you have a nice TV. So many factors come into effect regarding the degradation of picture Q. Length of cable, Graphics card, Graphics card drivers. Even the brand of card. All of these factors will make a difference to how good your end resulting picture is (without going into the audio possibilities) Using a smart TV or a Media streaming box takes all those factors out and perform on a pretty much level field. (due to standard specifications used) You will struggle to get the best picture possible on your TV using this method. I'd only advice it if you have a cheap TV and/or substandard video source. Where you won't notice it much or care as much. If you buy a good TV and have 1080p video you are watching then i would avoid going down this route.
(plus you can't use your TV remote! you have to get up to your PC each time to do anything!)

Note: I am on a fully wired network and have no idea about wireless playback/stuttering quality

This is so, so wrong. Does your PC work fine with your monitor? If so it will be fine with your TV, HDMI audio is easy to get working. You can get by far the best compatibility and quality from a PC as well, and you have full control over everything.

 

[ginjaninja]

I have tested various h264 profiles, bit rates, resolutions, sound tracks (ac3 +dts), subtitled files on the panasonic gt50 from a smaller usb drive and they all played. I did have trouble with vc1 but this may have been a faulty file as the first 30 seconds worked.

I could find no interface from network streaming bar DLNA........did you get \\pc\movieshare (smb) working) on a panasonic..if it only supports dlna...i need to find a dlna service that doesnt try and transcode.

 

[triggerthat]

I have to say that using a HDMI cable from my PC gives me the best picture quality. Better compared to multiple streaming services (TVersity / PS3 Media Server).

I have never used a TV that natively supports all video formats and I somehow doubt that the quality will be as good as a TV-out source.

 

[ginjaninja]

I have to say that using a HDMI cable from my PC gives me the best picture quality. Better compared to multiple streaming services (TVersity / PS3 Media Server).

I have never used a TV that natively supports all video formats and I somehow doubt that the quality will be as good as a TV-out source.

I am also sceptical that Tv natively support all video formats. But from my testing of the latest samsung and panasonics it looks like they do support the important ones for me. mkv container, H264 various profiles (4.1,5.1), high bitrates, 1080p, AC3, DTS 5.1 downsampled to stereo ok, AC3 5.1 down sampled to stereo (incidently the 3d surround emulation on stereo seemed to be faithfully reproduced, and i didnt have trouble with too little gain).

For me native playback is not so much about quality but simple clutter free single device solution. Native playback from a digital source with 100% error correction is presumably the ultimate compared to any physical transmission such as as HDMI..although i dont think there is a practical quality issue with either (save over v. large distances).

If HDMI is giving you significantly better quality compared to streaming services, then the streaming service is transcoding the source ...not, I suspect, because streaming gives less quality than hdmi inherently.

 

[AbsenceJam]

The newer hardware players/tvs are much better for compatibility, older ones had a lot of silly restrictions which weren't always related to performance which many encodes or muxes broke. If it plays the quality will be as good as from a PC with standard settings. The advantage of a computer source is that you have a lot of settings and filters you can play with to get things just right. My last HTPC setup let me have custom AVS scripts for my media so if something had say a lot of banding or level issues I could fix just that disk/file, or use profiles for a wider reach.

@triggerthat, those programs transcode.

 

[Defunkt]

The PC to TV route negates any Calibration you may carry out on your TV. Because of the reasons i pointed out and all the software settings others have talked about. I had my TV professionally calibrated and So would need a whole other calibration and cost on a seperate HDMI input for this (not even all TV's supports multi calibration on different inputs the ST50 does though)
Yes You could achieve as good picture but it will be a lot of money and you would need a TV with good calibration options. Otherwise when you switch back to your regular TV the picture would look poor.
As for picture quality with onboard decoding it is a standard specification that HD picture uses and used on all the decoding chips. So in theory the picture should be as good as possible. An example would be.. I could not tell any noticable picture difference quality between my WDTV box, Dune box and the TV's onboard Decoding. ALL look much the same on my TV. This isn't always true using a graphics card as they do not have the same sigma processing chips streaming boxes and TV's have as standard.
If you have a TV with poor calibration controls or just lack good settings on the other hand then yeah PC to TV you should be able to improve your picture better this way using software. It really comes down to how good your TV is as to which method is best to use i guess.
Like i said i have a HDMI cable plugged in just incase i ever need it and was put in as a standby when I had my set-up installed. I only ever used it to see if it was working OK and haven't needed to use it since. You shouldn't find a new smart tv that doesn't play .mkv's back without need for transcoding now.

 

[Destination]

I've a samsung 6800, so a couple of models below the 8000.
What exactly do you want me to test, as thus far its played everything I have throw at it.
Usually by sticking a usb in the back, but network wasn't an issue the few times I have used it, so exactly what am I aiming to test for you?

 

[ginjaninja]

I've a samsung 6800, so a couple of models below the 8000.
What exactly do you want me to test, as thus far its played everything I have throw at it.
Usually by sticking a usb in the back, but network wasn't an issue the few times I have used it, so exactly what am I aiming to test for you?

i am trying to find a tv that will playback mkv containers with typical data streams natively...across the network. Ideally via SMB and if it has to be through DLNA definitely without transcoding.

 

[Destination]

Yes I got that from your initial post.

When I want to play something I just use the wireless to browse to the shared folder on my PC and click it to play it back, I am unsure what process this uses, how can i check for you?

 

[morfmedia]

Hikari kisugi: any chance on a little review on the 6800 as that is the tv I want as the higher models all have bling silver surrounds which will catch too much sunlight in my lounge bay window. Thanks in advance!

 

[ginjaninja]

Yes I got that from your initial post.

When I want to play something I just use the wireless to browse to the shared folder on my PC and click it to play it back, I am unsure what process this uses, how can i check for you?

Thanks for the offer. I think i have answered the question though.
I have checked in store today, using ps3 media server (dlna server) with all transcoding turned off.

Latest panasonic and samsungs will play all my test mkvs/data streams fine through DLNA and neither have an SMB interface. Playback through DLNA is very functional and responsive - films start immediately and can forward and rewind responsively. I used PS3 media server as DLNA server and forced MKV to not be transcoded (which renders smb unnecessary).

This was great news and am now free to purchase the significantly cheaper panasonic, unfortunately the samsung will play flacs natively. Although i do suspect that i could get the dlna server to transcode just the flacs.

panasonic p42GT50 £950 with 5 yr warranty and 2 pairs of 3d glasses
SAMSUNG UE40ES8000 £1299 with 5 yr warranty, 2 pairs of 3d glasses, bluetooth keyboard, bd disc player, native flac playback.

decisions....decisions.....

 

[Meatball]

Both my Samsung TVs purchased in the last 2 years have natively played back my Blu-Ray MKV rips (Lossless rips, untranscoded) via Twonky on my HP Microserver

 

[ginjaninja]

Both my Samsung TVs purchased in the last 2 years have natively played back my Blu-Ray MKV rips (Lossless rips, untranscoded) via Twonky on my HP Microserver

I am wondering whether I should let the head rule and go for an older samsung model if it is capable of the same codec compatibility as the latest generation. I dont really need built in wifi, built in camera/skype, web browsing, motion and voice control, wider smart app functionality.....all i need is local content playback.

I can get SAMSUNG UE40ES6800 for £779

Whats your oldest samsung model?...please could you try a sample or two from here to confirm common codecs function (over and above lossless blurary rip)
http://www.auby.no/files/video_tests/
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1054962

 

[morfmedia]

That Samsung is available cheaper than that I think?