natural immune system

[RadoX]

Read a few comments in certain places lately about peoples hygiene and health. Someone was on about how they all ways put the seat down before they flush as little particles of water go into the air and they inhale them if the seat is left up. Surely bubble wrapping yourself or your children can only be bad as there immune system wont develop against these things and then when they do get sick and go to a hospital they will pick up all this bacteria from other people anyway therefore getting more sick.

Everyone should practice good hygiene but some people take it too far.

Do you think people should not be as careful as they are as it has the complete opposite effect ?

Another point I've tried to make to my friend and proved successfully is that mosquito repellent falls under the same umbrella. He covers himself in the stuff and doesn't get bit. The first time I went to Asia we both used none and got bit just about the same amount. Now if he doesn't put the stuff on he gets bit all over yet I sit in the same place and they leave me alone and if one does land on me before it manages to get me I generally can dispose of it. My thesis behind this is the anaesthetic they inject I have become immune to and I can feel them, yet my friend's body does not have this ability as he uses repellent and then when he doesn't put it on he gets owned due to not being able to feel the mosquito. I have also read that vitamin E makes you less attractive to mosquitoes and I think my body may have increased vitamin E levels yet my friends body hasn't. If I do get bit the bites do not itch as I think my body has also adapted to this. Another point is that the locals don't get bothered much either as there body has changed the same as mine.

tl;dr

Do some hygiene and health precautions do more harm than good ?

 

[James J]

Its possible, yet not proven (yet). Its theorised that asthma is related to overly clean environments and there has been a few early studies linking these together which makes for interesting reading. I'll try find the papers later on if I get chance!

 

[RadoX]

Its possible, yet not proven (yet). Its theorised that asthma is related to overly clean environments and there has been a few early studies linking these together which makes for interesting reading. I'll try find the papers later on if I get chance!

Thanks, I would appreciate reading them.

Also here in Laos the kids are allowed to do what they want one knocked his teeth out 2 days ago from swinging on a hammock pushed by 3 other kids and then jumping out and face planting. For sure none of the kids will do it again I think bubble wrapping people is the wrong thing to do and is causing many common sense/health problems in the UK. It is the same with the dogs, as soon as they want to venture away from there mother they are allowed to do so, the smart ones don't get hit by cars and the stupid ones do. In my opinion certain care should be taken with children but we have gone completely insane in England due to tabloid news papers publicising and over sensationalising one rare incident then the whole country thinks if there kid rides a bike there going to get kidnapped, hit by a car or if there's some kind of bug going around they will literally keep there kids from socialising thinking there going to die. We have evolved to a great species immune from many things but if we keep protecting people from small bugs/accidents will we start devolving/becoming more sick ?

 

[drunkenmaster]

There's no "right" or wrong here, think about the superbugs that kill, MRSA and the likes, other ones that are worse.

YOu can't have a non sterile hospital, the human body flat out even in the grimiesty strongest immune system situations didn't take well to being cut open and exposed.

But by actively killing bacteria/virus's we are creating new and worse ones, ones that even if you go around with a strong immune system can kill you.

Victim of modern medicine, killing what there is, can create worse ones that can kill more people more easily.

So we can all stop washing, get stronger immune systems but be unable to use simple antibiotics and people will go back to dying from easily beaten bugs...... and not get super bugs.

Or we can try and kill everything all the time which creates superbugs, but the ultra OCD style cleaning everything will protect the majority from superbugs as well.

Fact is before people started washing everything and keeping things clean, people did constantly die from VERY simple things, tooth abcess not treated by antibiotics, etc, etc.

As for putting the toilet seat down to stop crap floating around the house.... yeah, that isn't a hard question.

In "ye olden days" there was a reason the toilet was outside.

 

[Marine Iguana]

My immune system is brilliant last time I had even a runny nose was back when I was 11 and I have never been ill since then I am amazed that it is so great as the rest of my family are like germ central. But I don't use any medicines or products that I see people taking as I don't see taking them as necessary the only thing I take is insulin

I think taking all this junk does have an effect on normal healthy peoples bodies and how they function but no one will stop as they are compelled to carry on.

tooth abcess not treated by antibiotics, etc, etc.

had one last year didn't even go to the dentist or doctors and it went away.

 

[RadoX]

My immune system is brilliant last time I had even a runny nose was back when I was 11 and I have never been ill since then I am amazed that it is so great as the rest of my family are like germ central. But I don't use any medicines or products that I see people taking as I don't see taking them as necessary the only thing I take is insulin

I think taking all this junk does have an effect on normal healthy peoples bodies and how they function but no one will stop as they are compelled to carry on.



had one last year didn't even go to the dentist or doctors and it went away.

Indeed I am the same cant remember the last time I was ill. I think unless a drug is completely necessary for you to survive or prolong life you shouldn't be taking it, for medical purposes anyway . People should look for the source of the problem instead of trying to fix the problem with certain medicinals. A great example is someone I know, they drink 10 or so coffees every day and wonder why they cant sleep at night... They get prescribed Benzos to sleep when in reality if they stopped drinking so much coffee they would sleep fine.

There are many sheltered western tourists here and they get sick all the time. Makes me wonder if England ever got plunged into crisis and had to live in third world conditions how many would actually die due to there bubble wrapped upbringing.

 

[Marine Iguana]

My mate was helping me out on my car at the weekend and had to go wash his hands because they got a bit of dirt on them even though we had to finish working on the car still and get dirtier still and I was thinking how does he do anything in life if he worrys about the littlest thing getting on him the nancy.

 

[RadoX]

There's no "right" or wrong here, think about the superbugs that kill, MRSA and the likes, other ones that are worse.

YOu can't have a non sterile hospital, the human body flat out even in the grimiesty strongest immune system situations didn't take well to being cut open and exposed.

But by actively killing bacteria/virus's we are creating new and worse ones, ones that even if you go around with a strong immune system can kill you.

Victim of modern medicine, killing what there is, can create worse ones that can kill more people more easily.

So we can all stop washing, get stronger immune systems but be unable to use simple antibiotics and people will go back to dying from easily beaten bugs...... and not get super bugs.

Or we can try and kill everything all the time which creates superbugs, but the ultra OCD style cleaning everything will protect the majority from superbugs as well.

Fact is before people started washing everything and keeping things clean, people did constantly die from VERY simple things, tooth abcess not treated by antibiotics, etc, etc.

As for putting the toilet seat down to stop crap floating around the house.... yeah, that isn't a hard question.

In "ye olden days" there was a reason the toilet was outside.

The person was on about after having a slash in a public toilet where you walk straight out and go and wash your hands.

Also if you have bubble wrapped yourself all your life id be willing to bet that the superbugs have more of a chance to kill you as your immune system will be not as strong as someone who hasn't been sheltered all there life and you will also run the risk of contracting other things that you didn't get before due to being overly clean therefore intensifying the problem. The superbugs I suppose are natures way of natural selection as most people who die from them are probably overweight/unfit by there own bad lifestyle, granted some people do have medical conditions/disabilities that they cant help, there is also the elderly that need to die of something eventually.Cleanliness is key in certain environments such as child birth etc. But generally day to day i think we go way over the top in the UK. For instance my nan if we have a BBQ insists everything gets nuked from orbit or put in the oven to cook first she annoyed me so much I ate 2 chicken legs raw she literally thought i had just given myself aids or something. I didn't even get ill. On the other hand if someone she knows has diarrhea she swears by immodium surely if your body's evacuating your bowels its doing it because its not meant to be inside your body any more.

 

[Squark]

I put the toilet seat and lid down because it looks tidier.

 

[drunkenmaster]

The person was on about after having a slash in a public toilet where you walk straight out and go and wash your hands.

Also if you have bubble wrapped yourself all your life id be willing to bet that the superbugs have more of a chance to kill you as your immune system will be not as strong as someone who hasn't been sheltered all there life and you will also run the risk of contracting other things that you didn't get before due to being overly clean therefore intensifying the problem. The superbugs I suppose are natures way of natural selection as most people who die from them are probably overweight/unfit by there own bad lifestyle, granted some people do have medical conditions/disabilities that they cant help, there is also the elderly that need to die of something eventually.Cleanliness is key in certain environments such as child birth etc. But generally day to day i think we go way over the top in the UK. For instance my nan if we have a BBQ insists everything gets nuked from orbit or put in the oven to cook first she annoyed me so much I ate 2 chicken legs raw she literally thought i had just given myself aids or something. I didn't even get ill. On the other hand if someone she knows has diarrhea she swears by immodium surely if your body's evacuating your bowels its doing it because its not meant to be inside your body any more.

You've completely overlooked what are hundreds of autoimmune diseases caused by OVERACTIVE and too strong immune system.

You're also randomly assigning credit to your super strong immune system that you didn't get ill from eating raw chicken.

If the raw chicken had bugs in it, you could easily have gotten ill, if it didn't then eating it raw wouldn't matter. You cook food because you can't be sure if it has bugs in it or not, and cooking kills the vast majority so its significantly safe in the long run to not randomly expose yourself to a risk you can avoid.

Being a vege I can't say but most people simply find uncooked meat unappealing in look and probably taste. Meat isn't always about being cooked but about what its cooked with to give it different tastes, etc.

As for bugs, if you have one, not experiencing unpleasant side effects isn't somehow against fighting them. Life goes on even when people are ill, some people would get fired if they didn't go to work or , people have important things to do that don't change just because they are ill.

As for "superbugs" people generally get very ill and they have much higher mortality rates more to do with the body simply being unable to recognise them, than the strength of an immune response(which as previously stated, an overresponse from a too strong immune system can produce a huge array of just as dangerous life threatening problems).

A strong immune system doesn't kill off cancer because it can't recognise it as something to kill off, we're pretty good at killing off "common" bugs even with slight mutations because our immune systems tend to recognise them, our immune systems do essentially smeg all when you can't recognise them.

Your body could be all but crippled from polio if you didn't have a vaccine that allowed your body to recognise it quickly, replicate the relevant antibodies and block it from doing damage.


It's not a simple situation, there are definately concerns that being "overly" clean can cause problems, but so can being overly dirty. With antibiotics comes easy fixes for many simple infections that would otherwise kill people from things that today people treat as barely a problem, but as said, so does increasingly strong and drug(and immune system) resistant strains of the same bugs.

Generally speaking relatively "clean" living is the thing that has been massively responsible for vastly increased life expectancy, sewage systems, clean water and antibiotics have turned us from people lucky to live to 30, to people unlucky not to live past 70(ignoring accidents/murders/etc, health reasons alone). Right now the number of people who don't die due to "clean" conditions outweighs those who have issues like allergies or die from superbugs by a ridiculous ratio.

 

[RadoX]

Generally speaking relatively "clean" living is the thing that has been massively responsible for vastly increased life expectancy, sewage systems, clean water and antibiotics have turned us from people lucky to live to 30, to people unlucky not to live past 70(ignoring accidents/murders/etc, health reasons alone). Right now the number of people who don't die due to "clean" conditions outweighs those who have issues like allergies or die from superbugs by a ridiculous ratio.

You are 100% correct in this statement but we were fine 40 years ago. Now people are going berserk with cleanliness. For instance in a pub in the UK you cant have your own pint poured into the same glass as before as it may dip into the beer go on the pump then you will give everyone aids... Some peoples views on food in the UK are simply stupid can someone explain why we waste the rest of the chicken, lower leg and feet etc ?

The reason for bringing this up is because I'm returning home for a few months soon and It gets worse every time. The amount of rubbish the media prints is simply astonishing. Someone I don't know hears I've been in Asia for a while they immediately assume due to the media that I've been in a mud hut getting services from ladyboys. These are the same type of people that heard about Madcow disease 10 years ago and still refuse to eat beef. The same people that heard you eat mushrooms when there in season and immediately assume due to the media that you've lost your mind and your shooting up heroin.

The media has a huge bearing on my first point. BBC News says swine flu outbreak. People who believe newspapers mainly my grandparents and people there age think its the end of the world and start doing stupid stuff like not using handrails when they walk up public stairs and proceed to fall over.

At the start of this thread I didn't realise it but I'm just generally annoyed with the media and some not all peoples views in the UK. I have no reason to return apart from seeing my family and friends.

 

[qqg3]

As above, a middle-ground is good. I know people who like to keep themselves in a bubble and take every medicine they can get, every day; then at the other end of the scale some very disgusting characters (myself included ).

I think there is a big danger with people just not understanding medicines, you know the types, taking aspirin for a cold and what-not. Improper applications and that kind of thing.

A middle-ground is the balance of trusting modern medicine and science but also trusting our immune systems. Got cancer? I don't think our bodies were built for that. Got a runny nose? I wouldn't worry about that tooo much!

 

[SexyGreyFox]

My theory on insect bites is that some people just attract them more than others no matter what they do.
One of my daughters as always had a terrible time when going abroad where the other 3 of us stay free of bites.

 

[RadoX]

My theory on insect bites is that some people just attract them more than others no matter what they do.
One of my daughters as always had a terrible time when going abroad where the other 3 of us stay free of bites.

Me and my friend have the same eating and drinking habits and got bit just about the same amount the first few weeks then he started using Deet I used nothing and now if he doesn't apply Deet he gets owned the same as the first few weeks yet I experience hardly any bites and if i do get bit they don't itch.

 

[krooton]

Surely the bubble-wrap aspect only applies to kids, by the time you are in your mid-twenties, your immune system will be pretty much as developed as it will get, no?

Weirdly, since I started washing my hands with soap after going on public transport, and doing the blasts of cold water in the shower in the mornings, I have not been ill enough to be off work and any sniffle or cough I have picked up only lasted about 2-3 days, rather than the usual 6-7 days.

Also, OP username appropriate to discussion

 

[Nitefly]

The best mosquito repellent is paying to have me come along and go on holiday with you.

I am notorious for attracting them, for some odd reason they all target me. At one point during me travels last year I had 50+ bites and my friend had 2. It's silly.

 

[edscdk]

YOu can't have a non sterile hospital, the human body flat out even in the grimiesty strongest immune system situations didn't take well to being cut open and exposed.

I was in hospital the other day it amazes me the nurses have to nuke their hands from orbit when going from patient to patient but then the dinner ladys come round passing papers and other objects from person to person...

really I was amazed nurse nukes hands only for food plates and papers to be passed from patient to patient, and for visitors touch 20 door handles that 1000's of other poeple touch every day... I bet the main issue is visitors and patients not nurses...

1) MAKE VISITORS SANTAISE THEIR HANDS!
2) stop objects being passed from person to person at least for the high risk..

 

[Orcish-Horde]

The person was on about after having a slash in a public toilet where you walk straight out and go and wash your hands.

Also if you have bubble wrapped yourself all your life id be willing to bet that the superbugs have more of a chance to kill you as your immune system will be not as strong as someone who hasn't been sheltered all there life and you will also run the risk of contracting other things that you didn't get before due to being overly clean therefore intensifying the problem. The superbugs I suppose are natures way of natural selection as most people who die from them are probably overweight/unfit by there own bad lifestyle, granted some people do have medical conditions/disabilities that they cant help, there is also the elderly that need to die of something eventually.Cleanliness is key in certain environments such as child birth etc. But generally day to day i think we go way over the top in the UK. For instance my nan if we have a BBQ insists everything gets nuked from orbit or put in the oven to cook first she annoyed me so much I ate 2 chicken legs raw she literally thought i had just given myself aids or something. I didn't even get ill. On the other hand if someone she knows has diarrhea she swears by immodium surely if your body's evacuating your bowels its doing it because its not meant to be inside your body any more.

You just eat that raw chicken leg, from a chicken that had just eat the day before its death a grub that was infected with a new kind of pox. You sir have now started of small pox mark 2, to which there is no vaccine.

Joking a side thats now these plagues start out, HIV for exsample.

 

[IrishChr1s]

You would enjoy reading about immunology op, our immune systems is mainly the sold reason why everything we encounter doesn't kill us, helper t cells, natural killer cells and the ability to remember pathogens and viruses that we have encountered before.

Asthma is type 1 hypersensitivity, along with hay fever etc, if you want to learn more check out the khan academy immunology on YouTube, makes understanding how we survive things a lot easier.

 

[TommyV]

The best mosquito repellent is paying to have me come along and go on holiday with you.

I am notorious for attracting them, for some odd reason they all target me. At one point during me travels last year I had 50+ bites and my friend had 2. It's silly.

I can relate to this. I counted 30+ on just my right leg when I was in mexico this summer. After a week or so out there, they eventually stopped. No idea what it was about me and that first week they enjoyed so much!


My immune system is pretty good, I get ill for a day or two maybe once a year (I very rarely take sick days from work as a result).