Natwest mortgages

Swifty55 · 27 Apr 2016 at 18:56

My mortgage is with Natwest. This was the best mortgage I could get considering my previous credit history.

My broker sorted everything but he did a dip at the start for a mortgage in principle.

HungryHippos · 27 Apr 2016 at 19:12

Vipa66 said:
The broker fees (in most cases) are outweighed by the savings (in most cases) a good broker can make you. Remember too that not all brokers charge a fee, it tends to be largely based on the amount of work involved. I VERY rarely charge a fee for a re-mortgage, in fact, I don't very often charge a fee at all!! it only tends to be on very complex cases that will take an unusually large amount of my time. Never charge for advice though..

Banks are only interested in new customers. most offer cracking deals for the new ones but when it comes time to review, usually offer poorer rates. They do this as they know a large number of customers will just sit back and take whatever they are offered without question. I've worked as an adviser for the biggest banks, as did my wife for many years and we have close friends who still do... They are sweat shops... the pressure the sales people are under to meet their targets is absolutely immense.. they just want to make a sale.. there is also no guarantee you will ever have the same adviser each time you need them and they tend to be only available office hours 5 days a week! People like me, on the other hand, want to build a relationship with you which will last your house buying life... plus most of us are available pretty much 24/7!

As for sales... that may have been the case 20 years ago but it is no longer.. We work on the same principles as IFAs... a client is for life not just for a quick buck.. it isn't in our interest to push to make a sale, we want to do the best we can for you, that includes product choice, quality of advice and quality of service... after all... that's how we get the referrals we need to build a successful business!

Under FCA rules, you have to go through the advice process anyway so why on earth would you do that with someone who can only tell you about one lender's product? surely the sensible thing to do would be to talk to someone who can look at the whole market? The client doesn't lose out, it is very rare that a lender will offer a better deal direct than through a broker, in fact, it is quite often the other way round.. even where a procuration fee is paid to the broker, it has absolutely no affect on the product or rate.

If you don't mind my asking, how do you make money doing this? (I presume you are a broker yourself here).

My broker I used was good and not pushy as well, the deal they got me was as good as the one I could get myself through the same bank, but less the paper work for me to fill out.

They had a referral fee from the bank for a few hundred £, but it wasn't much, and it must've taken some hours for them to process my application and go through everything.

How does anyone make a living out of this kind of work?

randal · 27 Apr 2016 at 20:09

Proc fee, or product incentives typically.

Vipa66 · 28 Apr 2016 at 17:08

HungryHippos said:
If you don't mind my asking, how do you make money doing this? (I presume you are a broker yourself here).

My broker I used was good and not pushy as well, the deal they got me was as good as the one I could get myself through the same bank, but less the paper work for me to fill out.

They had a referral fee from the bank for a few hundred £, but it wasn't much, and it must've taken some hours for them to process my application and go through everything.

How does anyone make a living out of this kind of work?

Procuration fees on simple cases, normally around 0.4% gross plus a fee (if any) on the more complex stuff. This has absolutely no affect on the rate the client pays.. a busy broker with decent admin support could probably handle 2 a day, personally, I prefer to spend more time with my clients and so look at maybe 2 or 3 a week. I've done the other and you don't end up with lifelong clients , just customers who you never see again once they have moved/re-mortgaged!

Remember too that the further south one is, the higher the earnings.. £500k mortgage in or around London would earn a decent broker £2k... imagine 2 of those every day... that's £500k a year before we get into the profitable stuff! Sadly, those of us who live and work oop norf.. have to make do with much lower expectations but in a paradoxical way it means we spend more time ensuring the whole advice process is done right and the mortgage isn't seen as a fast buck at the expense of everything else...

The next claims company target will be (already on its way!) "do you have a mortgage and have suffered a critical illness/death of your partner/long term illness? did your adviser/bank discuss and make sure you understood how monumentally important protecting the mortgage and your family was? if not, let's sue him as he has been negligent and not given proper advice!" and get this... one firm of solicitors in the Sheffield area is targeting those exact clients and arguing that, even if the adviser did discuss this with you and you declined... he obviously wasn't insistent enough and therefore was still negligent!!!!!" the scary thing is, the ombudsman is upholding claims on that basis!!

The majority of income comes from ancillary sales.. every pound borrowed is a pound that needs protecting and it would be unprofessional, irresponsible and down right immoral of me to arrange a mortgage and not ensure it was protected against death, critical illness or loss of income... particularly where there are children involved. That doesn't mean you MUST take insurances out through me but as I can use most of the big reputable firms people would end up with anyway, it is very rare over the past 20 odd years that anyone has seen fit to let me sort the mortgage and do everything else themselves.. most are happy that they have one point of contact doing all the legwork for little or no extra cost and ensuring that all bases are covered for them.. for example... who, at one of the online comparison sites, will explain, organise and execute the trusts on the life insurance and visit the trustees to ensure they fully understand the implications and their responsibilities!? The answer is... no one!!!! do they analyse firms claim histories and rejection rates and discuss this with the clients in order to make the right decision? no good saving a fiver a month if, when you put a claim in, the firm wriggles out of it!! plenty out there will!

As I have said, most of the clients I have dealt with over the last 2 decades have become lifelong clients and I am their first port of call for anything mortgage or protection related.. quite a few of them have turned into very, very good friends... not something you tend to find with bank advisers!

Vipa66 · 28 Apr 2016 at 17:32

randal said:
Proc fee, or product incentives typically.

Incentives were actually outlawed some years ago now.. Even procuration fees have to fall within a certain band so an adviser won't look at one lender more favourably than another because of the amount they get paid!

This is all laid down in MCOB & ICOB rules by the FSA and moved forward by the FCA... we almost lost the ability to earn commission on insurance products (as IFAs did with investments... all fee based now!) but thankfully someone realised that if the only way someone could get advice on life insurance et al, was to pay a fee for the privilege, your average joe wouldn't get advice and probably therefore wouldn't protect themselves or their family!!

HungryHippos · 28 Apr 2016 at 18:16

Vipa66 said:
Procuration fees on simple cases, normally around 0.4% gross plus a fee (if any) on the more complex stuff. This has absolutely no affect on the rate the client pays.. a busy broker with decent admin support could probably handle 2 a day, personally, I prefer to spend more time with my clients and so look at maybe 2 or 3 a week. I've done the other and you don't end up with lifelong clients , just customers who you never see again once they have moved/re-mortgaged!

Remember too that the further south one is, the higher the earnings.. £500k mortgage in or around London would earn a decent broker £2k... imagine 2 of those every day... that's £500k a year before we get into the profitable stuff! Sadly, those of us who live and work oop norf.. have to make do with much lower expectations but in a paradoxical way it means we spend more time ensuring the whole advice process is done right and the mortgage isn't seen as a fast buck at the expense of everything else...

The next claims company target will be (already on its way!) "do you have a mortgage and have suffered a critical illness/death of your partner/long term illness? did your adviser/bank discuss and make sure you understood how monumentally important protecting the mortgage and your family was? if not, let's sue him as he has been negligent and not given proper advice!" and get this... one firm of solicitors in the Sheffield area is targeting those exact clients and arguing that, even if the adviser did discuss this with you and you declined... he obviously wasn't insistent enough and therefore was still negligent!!!!!" the scary thing is, the ombudsman is upholding claims on that basis!!

The majority of income comes from ancillary sales.. every pound borrowed is a pound that needs protecting and it would be unprofessional, irresponsible and down right immoral of me to arrange a mortgage and not ensure it was protected against death, critical illness or loss of income... particularly where there are children involved. That doesn't mean you MUST take insurances out through me but as I can use most of the big reputable firms people would end up with anyway, it is very rare over the past 20 odd years that anyone has seen fit to let me sort the mortgage and do everything else themselves.. most are happy that they have one point of contact doing all the legwork for little or no extra cost and ensuring that all bases are covered for them.. for example... who, at one of the online comparison sites, will explain, organise and execute the trusts on the life insurance and visit the trustees to ensure they fully understand the implications and their responsibilities!? The answer is... no one!!!! do they analyse firms claim histories and rejection rates and discuss this with the clients in order to make the right decision? no good saving a fiver a month if, when you put a claim in, the firm wriggles out of it!! plenty out there will!

As I have said, most of the clients I have dealt with over the last 2 decades have become lifelong clients and I am their first port of call for anything mortgage or protection related.. quite a few of them have turned into very, very good friends... not something you tend to find with bank advisers!

Thanks for the detailed description, and yes I agree people are idiots if they think that not getting some kind of cover (if they need it) to cover the worst eventuality is anything but their own fault.

Where do you see mortgage rates going by the way? I am 1 year into a 2 year tracker at base rate +1.09% - awesome and cheap, no early repayment charges etc, but was considering switching up at some point to a 5 year fixed on a reasonable rate (have < 50% LTV so best rates possible).

BigBoy · 28 Apr 2016 at 23:19

Give London and country a call, the service they provide is excellent and they have sorted me out twice now.

HangTime · 28 Apr 2016 at 23:43

Vipa66 said:
The next claims company target will be (already on its way!) "do you have a mortgage and have suffered a critical illness/death of your partner/long term illness? did your adviser/bank discuss and make sure you understood how monumentally important protecting the mortgage and your family was? if not, let's sue him as he has been negligent and not given proper advice!" and get this... one firm of solicitors in the Sheffield area is targeting those exact clients and arguing that, even if the adviser did discuss this with you and you declined... he obviously wasn't insistent enough and therefore was still negligent!!!!!" the scary thing is, the ombudsman is upholding claims on that basis!!

The majority of income comes from ancillary sales.. every pound borrowed is a pound that needs protecting and it would be unprofessional, irresponsible and down right immoral of me to arrange a mortgage and not ensure it was protected against death, critical illness or loss of income!

Arguably in keeping with PPI et al shouldn't it be the other way round i.e. people putting in claims for being "mis-sold" life/critical illness etc, claiming that it wasn't explained to them an option really and was aggressively promoted by the lender/agent so they should get their premiums back?

randal · 28 Apr 2016 at 23:43

Vipa66 said:
Incentives were actually outlawed some years ago now.. Even procuration fees have to fall within a certain band so an adviser won't look at one lender more favourably than another because of the amount they get paid!

This is all laid down in MCOB & ICOB rules by the FSA and moved forward by the FCA... we almost lost the ability to earn commission on insurance products (as IFAs did with investments... all fee based now!) but thankfully someone realised that if the only way someone could get advice on life insurance et al, was to pay a fee for the privilege, your average joe wouldn't get advice and probably therefore wouldn't protect themselves or their family!!

Huh, the more you know.

Good to get yet more insight, enjoying your postings on the topic.

Vipa66 · 29 Apr 2016 at 10:48

HangTime said:
Arguably in keeping with PPI et al shouldn't it be the other way round i.e. people putting in claims for being "mis-sold" life/critical illness etc, claiming that it wasn't explained to them an option really and was aggressively promoted by the lender/agent so they should get their premiums back?

Not really... the whole PPI debacle was something entirely different.. The root cause of PPI 'mis-selling' was that it was hidden in a loan, not discussed at all and the entire premium taken up front and added to the loan so you didn't know how much it cost, didn't even know it was there and didn't get a choice unfortunately mortgage protection was tarred with the same brush.

life insurance etc is dealt with differently, it is impossible to arrange it without discussion and the fact that detailed fact finding, and medical questioning is required makes the usual claims company 'misselling' excuses invalid.

Vipa66 · 29 Apr 2016 at 10:53

HungryHippos said:
Thanks for the detailed description, and yes I agree people are idiots if they think that not getting some kind of cover (if they need it) to cover the worst eventuality is anything but their own fault.

Where do you see mortgage rates going by the way? I am 1 year into a 2 year tracker at base rate +1.09% - awesome and cheap, no early repayment charges etc, but was considering switching up at some point to a 5 year fixed on a reasonable rate (have < 50% LTV so best rates possible).

Impossible for me to speculate really... not much has gone according to the economists plans recently so all the usual cause and effect triggers are worthless to contemplate.

All I will say is that, whilst there is some wriggle room for base rate to fall... all of 0.5%.. in the long term rates only have one direction of travel and it is very much a case of when and not if.. although... your guess is as good as mine as to when... blimey... even the bank of England cant make their minds up and keep changing their estimates on time frames..

I feel the eu referendum will cause some turbulence, irrespective of an exit or not, that could sway the BOE decision makers.. Mr Carney has already pointed to that as have quite a few reputable economists.