Negotiating salary with a new employer....

[R.O.S.S.I]

Currently in the process of looking for a new job. I'm not in any mad rush to find a new job but I am currently on fixed term contracts which I want to move to a more permanent position.

I've found and applied for a job which had no mention of salary in the job advert and was subsequently invited to an interview.

As I didn't particularly want to waste mine or their time if the job didn't pay as much as I'm on atm I emailed the company asking if they are able to give an idea of the salary range on offer as it didnt mention it in the job ad. They informed me they hadn't set anything formally as they wanted to make sure they got the right person for the job. Fair enough I thought, I haven't got anything to lose by going to the interview so I went along and it went really well. I've subsequently been asked back for a 2nd interview which is next week.

During my first interview they asked about my current package which I explained to them so they know how much money I currently earn. I intentionally didn't ask about salary as they made it clear that they would be doing second interviews so felt it was best to leave discussions like that till the 2nd interview if I was invited back.

What would be the best way of approaching the salary negotiations? I dont want to take a pay cut and would preferably want a min of 10% increase on what I am currently on to make it worth the move.

Do I just wait and see what they offer as they know my current salary and then set out that I want? Do you think they are likely to offer me an increase on what I currently earn? Do you think they would offer me less than what I currently earn?

I know this is all a bit vague but I've never been in a situation like this before so just want to know the best way to approach it if it arises!

 

[tom_e]

Check around some of the job sites and see what sort of salary similar jobs are offering to at least give you an idea of what you may be offered.

 

[Redgie]

I would be very surprised if they offered you what you're on now or less. But as you rightly said, you've nothing to lose by going along, so go along and ask

P.S. https://forums.overclockers.co.uk/forumdisplay.php?f=166

 

[PapaLazaru]

They know how much you are on and they have asked you back, so I doubt they will offer you less but bear in mind, that as this is a permanent position, even if they match your salary, you will likely be far better off with the benefits that come with the job.

 

[wingman]

Been in this situation many times, and I'd be very surprised if they didn't offer you a salary increase over what you're currently on. Otherwise, there'd be little incentive. There's risk with moving to a new job, and unless it's a new career you're breaking into (or starting a job with a company that you will love working for), then salary increases are part and parcel.

 

[R.O.S.S.I]

Apologies, I forgot there was a careers sub-forum now.

Just to clarify whilst my current role is a fixed term contract I am a permanent member of staff, i'm not temporary so am still eligible for all benefits/rights as a normal permanent member of staff. I've been here just coming up to 4 years now.

I've checked the average on sites like TotalJobs, Monster etc using their salary checkers and compared to other jobs I have a rough idea of what the average salary range is (which i am currently on the low mid/bottom end of atm).

My thinking was like someone has said that usually people would be expecting some form of pay increase if moving roles. Plus they know what my current salary is and have asked me back for a second interview so I can't be earning massively more than what they pay that they couldn't match it.

I can't see this happening but if salary isn't brought up at second interview do you think it would be looked down upon if I brought it up? I always get tetchy about the thought of bringing up the salary of a role.

Similarly, how do people approach negotiations? I know its difficult to say but have you ever counter-offered? Is this a normal practice? I guess my concern is that they will only offer me a small amount more than i'm on.

Sorry for the abundance of questions, never been in a position of not knowing what the salary is for a role and then figuring out how to "price" myself.

 

[Armageus]

My thinking was like someone has said that usually people would be expecting some form of pay increase if moving roles.

Almost exactly this - why would anyone leave a stable job that they are relatively happy with, if there wasn't an incentive.

I can't see this happening but if salary isn't brought up at second interview do you think it would be looked down upon if I brought it up? I always get tetchy about the thought of bringing up the salary of a role.

Rather than coming straight out with it, be worth working it into discussion regarding long term goals and progression. If you remain with them, where would you fit in 3 or 5 years time?

Similarly, how do people approach negotiations? I know its difficult to say but have you ever counter-offered? Is this a normal practice? I guess my concern is that they will only offer me a small amount more than i'm on.

It might be that they only offer you a small amount more, but don't see that there is anything wrong with negotiating it. Might also be worth insisting on a pay increase (or at least review) after 3 months (or whatever probationary you may be on)?

 

[R.O.S.S.I]

Almost exactly this - why would anyone leave a stable job that they are relatively happy with, if there wasn't an incentive.

Rather than coming straight out with it, be worth working it into discussion regarding long term goals and progression. If you remain with them, where would you fit in 3 or 5 years time?

It might be that they only offer you a small amount more, but don't see that there is anything wrong with negotiating it. Might also be worth insisting on a pay increase (or at least review) after 3 months (or whatever probationary you may be on)?

Some good tips here, thank you.

I have an amount i'd be willing to move for so I guess its a case of whether I stick to my guns with it or not. I kind of do want to move roles as I'm getting tired of working at my current employer but i'm under no pressure to do so at present.

I think i'll see how the second interview goes. To the best of my knowledge it will be time spent with the current person who I will be replacing going through the role in a bit more detail and then with senior managers to finish off the interview and in her words "to see if I still want the job". I'm hoping that salary will come up into the conversation at some point with the senior team.

 

[A2Z]

To the best of my knowledge it will be time spent with the current person who I will be replacing going through the role in a bit more detail and then with senior managers to finish off the interview and in her words "to see if I still want the job". I'm hoping that salary will come up into the conversation at some point with the senior team.

When you are one on one with the person you are replacing just ask them what they are on/what their starting salary was. I doubt they will care seeing as they are leaving. Will at least give you a better idea.

 

[R.O.S.S.I]

When you are one on one with the person you are replacing just ask them what they are on/what their starting salary was. I doubt they will care seeing as they are leaving. Will at least give you a better idea.

To me that seems incredibly rude though. I'd never dream of asking a current work colleague their salary, let alone one at a prospective new company.

What do others think, is that the right tact?

 

[MissChief]

If they're leaving he's likely doing so for a pay rise anyway. Just come in with the 'I don't mean to be rude but...' And the worst he can say is 'sorry, none of your business'?

 

[Mr^B]

It's highly likely to be against corporate/company policy. As well as being fairly rude.

We're not allowed to discuss salary/bonus numbers with fellow employees.

 

[dowie]

if they're trusting an employee who is leaving to interview/chat with you then he's on good terms with them. Whether they say it is an informal chat or not he is essentially interviewing you still and will be reporting back to them - if you blatantly ask him 'hey mate, do me a favour and tell me what you're earning' then he'll likely report back to them that you did that.

 

[R.O.S.S.I]

The person who is leaving though is doing on so on good terms (hence the reason why they are heavily involved in the recruitment process) with their current employer so even if I was comfortable with asking them how much they get paid I highly doubt they would tell me!

I think i'll just have to play it by ear!

I know there are no hard and fast rules but if you were looking for employment elsewhere and factors such as commuting, holidays and hours in working day didnt come into it what is the minimum percentage increase in salary would you be willing to take? 5%? 10%? 15%? 20%?? More? Or would you take anything as long as it was an increase.

 

[alx]

Probably 10-15%, but you can always try higher if you feel a negotiation wouldn't cause any adverse feelings or them backing out.

 

[HangTime]

Similarly, how do people approach negotiations? I know its difficult to say but have you ever counter-offered? Is this a normal practice? I guess my concern is that they will only offer me a small amount more than i'm on.

The first thing I would say is that in general (horse has already bolted in this particular scenario) I would be very coy about disclosing your current package. You could when posed with that say that you don't believe your current salary has any relevance to your capability to do the new job and that you would much rather be talking about what level you and they value your skills and experience at for the new job. Tell them a range you are looking for based on your research about your market value. If they are insistent on knowing your current salary then give them a 'package' value (don't explicitly call it salary) that includes bonus, pension, car allowance, healthcare and other benefits such that the headline number is maximised but can still be justified.

As for counter-offers (assuming you mean from you not current employer), I've always got more than the original offer on the two occasions I asked for it. First time was a job where they offered me an 10% increase upon successful completion of probation. I said that I was concerned that this might preclude me from the annual pay review which I had assumed would be close to that time of year so we agreed on a 15% increase. The second time was just a case of me sticking to my guns and justifying why I wanted something close to my requested salary £x rather than the £x-5 they were offering supposedly top of their budget (I used travel expenses). In the end they offered £x-2.

At the end of the day personal circumstance should be largely irrelevant HOWEVER the impression I get is that if you can give a reasoned argument as to why you deserve/need more money then it gives you a bit more clout in the negotiations. I'm not talking about 'oh my rent is going up and we have a baby on the way!!' but more along the lines of a comparison with your current job and the things you will be giving up to move whether that be benefits, holiday allowance, travel costs etc.

Edit: As for the minimum increase to move, all else being equal, for me it would depend on what the market rate for the new position was and how much better I thought the new job was than the previous one. It could be over 30% or under 5%. But as a rule of thumb I'd say 10%+.
In general %age rises are all a bit of folly anyway because it depends on how badly underpaid you are in your current job and doesn't consider changing tax implications. People in the higher tax bracket need bigger rises to see the benefit of it. Then once you get to £100k you get stitched up by the personal allowance being progressively taken away. A 20% pay rise sounds fantastic but you only actually see about 40% of that gross rise going in your pocket

 

[R.O.S.S.I]

The first thing I would say is that in general (horse has already bolted in this particular scenario) I would be very coy about disclosing your current package. You could when posed with that say that you don't believe your current salary has any relevance to your capability to do the new job and that you would much rather be talking about what level you and they value your skills and experience at for the new job. Tell them a range you are looking for based on your research about your market value. If they are insistent on knowing your current salary then give them a 'package' value (don't explicitly call it salary) that includes bonus, pension, car allowance, healthcare and other benefits such that the headline number is maximised but can still be justified.

As for counter-offers (assuming you mean from you not current employer), I've always got more than the original offer on the two occasions I asked for it. First time was a job where they offered me an 10% increase upon successful completion of probation. I said that I was concerned that this might preclude me from the annual pay review which I had assumed would be close to that time of year so we agreed on a 15% increase. The second time was just a case of me sticking to my guns and justifying why I wanted something close to my requested salary £x rather than the £x-5 they were offering supposedly top of their budget (I used travel expenses). In the end they offered £x-2.

At the end of the day personal circumstance should be largely irrelevant HOWEVER the impression I get is that if you can give a reasoned argument as to why you deserve/need more money then it gives you a bit more clout in the negotiations. I'm not talking about 'oh my rent is going up and we have a baby on the way!!' but more along the lines of a comparison with your current job and the things you will be giving up to move whether that be benefits, holiday allowance, travel costs etc.

Edit: As for the minimum increase to move, all else being equal, for me it would depend on what the market rate for the new position was and how much better I thought the new job was than the previous one. It could be over 30% or under 5%. But as a rule of thumb I'd say 10%+.
In general %age rises are all a bit of folly anyway because it depends on how badly underpaid you are in your current job and doesn't consider changing tax implications. People in the higher tax bracket need bigger rises to see the benefit of it. Then once you get to £100k you get stitched up by the personal allowance being progressively taken away. A 20% pay rise sounds fantastic but you only actually see about 40% of that gross rise going in your pocket

Well they have already asked about my salary and I rounded it up to the nearest thousand. Maybe I should have been a bit more adventurous and included my usual mileage claims and expenses on top of that to bump it up, but its done now. They know what I'm on currently.

I will definitely be bringing in some of the other perks as I get a very generous holiday allowance at my current job which I will use as a factor in my negotiations. Plus the fact that I feel I am currently paid under the going market rate for the geographical area I am in.

Bah, it stresses me out thinking about it, I'm going to try and not think about it too much though now as I've not even had the second interview and obviously not even at a stage where negotiating a salary is on the cards yet.

Going to do some more swatting up on potential questions, potential ideas about the company and some good questions to ask the employers at the end of the interview.

Thanks for your help guys, some solid advice which I'll bare in mind should I be in the negotiating situation!

 

[alx]

Well they have already asked about my salary and I rounded it up to the nearest thousand. Maybe I should have been a bit more adventurous and included my usual mileage claims and expenses on top of that to bump it up, but its done now. They know what I'm on currently.

I will definitely be bringing in some of the other perks as I get a very generous holiday allowance at my current job which I will use as a factor in my negotiations. Plus the fact that I feel I am currently paid under the going market rate for the geographical area I am in.

Bah, it stresses me out thinking about it, I'm going to try and not think about it too much though now as I've not even had the second interview and obviously not even at a stage where negotiating a salary is on the cards yet.

Going to do some more swatting up on potential questions, potential ideas about the company and some good questions to ask the employers at the end of the interview.

Thanks for your help guys, some solid advice which I'll bare in mind should I be in the negotiating situation!

I'd also make sure you have a number in your mind that you want, and don't accept anything below this. This obviously takes into account salary, what you feel you should be being paid, bonuses, holiday, other perks, commuting time, holiday etc etc as HangTime mentioned. You also need to factor in the new companies benefits as well.

What you don't want to have the issue of is going to interview, them asking what your expectation is and you scratching around in your head trying to add up all the numbers and do comparisons to come up with a number and then potentially sell yourself short .

 

[marshalex]

I always used to add on at least 10%, more if had to travel further to make sure I was getting a decent bump. Like the previous advice, make sure you have a figure in your head and a few backups for if the package isn't as good (holiday days/pension etc) as that way you can compensate for the loss of those kind of bits a little easier

 

[R.O.S.S.I]

I know for definite that the holidays aren't what mine are currently and to be honest I've no idea if they pay bonuses, what the pension is or what other perks staff get there. There is very little information on their website to go off and I didn't feel it appropriate to go into that during the first interview. Do you think it would be a reasonable question for me to ask at this stage?

I think I am going to go with a 15% rise in pay and try not to go any lower than that. I'm not exactly on mega bucks anyway so it isn't a HUGE jump in pay compared to if I was on 50-60K.