Never happy with my Audio setup. So what now?

[FatRakoon]

I think I am an extremely miserable sod at times.

I have spent what can only be described as an extortionate sum of money on amps, speakers sound devices etc to get my PCs to sound as good as they can be.

I have tried various devices and the chances are, that I have not yet sold, thrown, or simply smashed some of it up.

Weirdly, my current setup, I have gone back to cheap and tatty and yet the sound is better than my Schiit DAC, and this is a 15 year old ( I got it 15 years ago off a mate, so its even older than that ) Altect Lansing ADA995 setup, that is now sporting a pair of Mission speakers for the main, and the BASS is switched and its going out to a Sonos BASS speakers instead of the ones in the unit.

This is all me fettering over the years to get the best possible sound, and frankly, nothing even comes close to the quality that this setup is currently giving me, but I still want better.

Im only using stereo cos Im sick to death of trying to get a nice unprocessed 5.1 from Digital.

So, I am asking if anyone is willing, to give me something to go for.

I need the entire line.

Sound Card / Device.
AMP
Speakers.

I want to say money is no object, but it will be of course, and so lets have 2 targets to keep to... How about a £2000 and under, and a £5000 and under.

Thanks.

 

[james.miller]

5.1 LPCM isnt difficult, just use HDMI...

Anyway, there's no way in hell that a set of altec speakers with miss-matched driver replacements is going to be anything like accurate so i think the problem is your sound 'preference' isnt something you're going to achieve by throwing money at accurate components like schitt dacs.

I dont know. Maybe spending some time understanding just what it is you like about the altec setup will point you in the right direction. Getting a mic set up and running a frequency sweep might give you some insight.

 

[mistersprinkles]

Have you considered that it might be the room, not the speakers, that is screwing you over?

 

[FatRakoon]

Hello there James.

I have to be honest with myself, but yes, It surely is all down to preference... Its also knowing that deep down, the fact that I have a vast range of styles of music that I love, and listen to every day, dont help one bit either.
I have also written a number of tracks that are somewhat lethal to so many stock amps and HiFis that I usually end up killing something in my quest of ... I dont know, but its a quest of something.

I like to utterly hammer my music and I fully demand, that I expect to hear every single tiny tip of a ride, each little nudge of the wind chimes, all while every strum of the heaviest bass guitar is thrown out and I expect to hear every finger on every fret slide down the guitar, and I still expect that while all of this, is pounding out at full blast on my best amp, I fully expect that there is not one single tiny bit of that, that is not absolutely 100% crystal lear, not matter how loud it is, and when people hear my setup hammering home some Slayer, Napalm Death, or Enya, I expect everyone to not jusyt hear the stupid mental thud of some ****** cheap hifi rubbish, but I expect them to hear with great claity, each individual sound, as it is supposed to be played and not just a wall of cruddy noise.

I know what I like and so yeah, personal preference is surely my biggest wall to get over, but the fact still remains that I have spent thousands over the years on some seriously top end gear and some seriously low end tat too, and I am just never satisfied with what I have.

OK... 5.1 LPCM from HDMI.
Yes, absolutely... I do have a couple of devices... one is 5.1 and the other a stereo. This is a delicious sound I agree, and I would even go so far as to say that its superior to dolby but then, that does not say much.
If I go down the Stereo route, then Im still in need of a good amp / Speaker setup.

Now, as to Altec Lansing. What Altec gear have you tried?
I have a number of their hardware ,and anythign under £1000 is a load of cack, but their higher end stuff is great. The one exception to this rule that I have, is their ADA995 gear.
Their lower end stuff is utter crud I will grant you.

Understanding the setup I have.
Its a problem that I have tried to fathom for years. I love the Altec Amp ( The only part thats still Altec these days ), and I know that I get it to a place where I am 100% happy with it, and then it never takes long, but I m saying to myself... Is it though?... Is it the best it can be? And then I go on some mental quest to get it bettered and after spending more money, I then keep going back to the Altec?

Why do I like it?
The honest issue that I know I do have, is that I often jusge things based on their costs. For example, I have a pair of Sony headphons that I like using cos they sound nice and only cost m a tenner. I also have a set of Monsters that cost me £340 and they are clearly vastly superior to the sony ones, but they dont get used anywhere near as much because they are not worth £330 more than the Sonys cost me. They are easily worth £100 more, but thats it and so for that, they are judged harshly... Its the same across the board. Those Altecs cost me NOTHING. They were given to me and so the use I have had out of them, and the love I have for them are certainly reflecting that price.
So, of course, when it comes to other setups, I paid hundrds for this or that, and so they need to be hundreds of times better, and thats simply never going to happen, and so sure, I have a huge bias, unfair or otherwise, its somehting I have that wont go away.

 

[FatRakoon]

Have you considered that it might be the room, not the speakers, that is screwing you over?

No, Im in a new house, new room, new evreything, but the issues are the same as I have always had. Im just a miserable git who is never happy.

 

[james.miller]

Now, as to Altec Lansing. What Altec gear have you tried?
I have a number of their hardware ,and anythign under £1000 is a load of cack, but their higher end stuff is great. The one exception to this rule that I have, is their ADA995 gear.
Their lower end stuff is utter crud I will grant you.

You're missing the point there. the ADA995 is a 5x 21watt/channel + 94watt for the sub(at 1% distortion!) surround solution. the amp, sub and satellites are no doubt built to work together and the crossovers are fixed - it's not a magic box you can throw different drivers at and expect miracles from. Because of this, if what you have right now is the best thing you've heard then what you want is not a perfect setup. What you want will no doubt be a lot warmer and punchy. This is why i said try a mic - if you can see what those speakers are actually doing on screen then it'll give you somewhere to start. Better that than throwing money at the problem at hoping something sticks.

 

[FatRakoon]

Yes, I do think I need a warmer sound.

Its so difficult to know what I want and I have no doubt, that all this effort that I have put into getting it to where I want it to be, has simply been in vain much of the time, and certainly placebo is also playing a huge part, if only in trying to justify the costs, both financial, and mental.

I also need to stop saying that what the setup is giving me is better quality, because I know its not. Its a nicer sound, but of course its not the greatest thing ever, its just that I have it at a place, where I can definitely hear more in the music, more clarity and deeper basses and higher trebles, as well as keeping the mid range crisp and clear, and the speaker setup that I am using at the moment, are definitely complimenting the rest of the setup in a way that feels good to my ears.ing

I think I simply want to go back to a simpler 2 speaker setup.

 

[Marsman]

What you cold really do with, at least something that would make getting what you are after easier, is a demonstration. Because of your situation, a home demo would be massively easier than having to go somewhere to demo audio gear, which may not even be possible for you.

Trouble with home demos though, is that audio stores that do this are few and far between and those that do are likely to be enthusiast higher up the audio food chain stores; still, a home demo will let you hear the speakers in the environment they will be used in. Store demos will be much better than no demo, but the sound will likely be different because of the different environment.

If the above is not possible, then other than what James has suggested, I don't know what the answer is, other than to keep buying and trying...

 

[FatRakoon]

Ah its not an entirely useless idea to try various setups in-store, at least you can compare them to each other I suppose.

Today, I went to 2 local Music shops, one is a smaller shop and the other is more of a gig / band audio provider, and as such, they both seemed to be only able to provide me with Disco/PA gear and thats not what I am after at all.

I dont know... Im just going to stop whining like a baby and just see what I can find further out and just bite the bullet and go out and have a listen in-store wherever they do demo their gear?

There is nothing that I know of even remotely close to me, so I might need to organise a day out I think.

 

[Marsman]

I must apologise for assuming that going out and demoing gear would be difficult for you. From previous threads I got the impression that because of your situation, it would be hard to do that.

Anyway; yes it does depend where you live and what's in your local area. Nearest audio to me that I'm aware of is 60 miles away.

Is there not a Richer Sounds store in the area?

 

[FatRakoon]

Eh? Why are you appologising? You aint never dun nuffin rong doe!

Yes, I am of limited capabilities these days, and the DVLA are not making things any easier in me trying to get some normality back in my life with having my driving licence back, so yeah, I am struggling to get from A to B not just with my body, but also my cars and bikes have had just as little action as my bedoom has in the last few years!

But anyway, there is no need to appologise. Yes, going out would be a harder thing than it would be for a more able bodied person, but my mate loves any excuse to use my Ferarri to drive me around, so we get out and about well enough. ( And by ferarri, I mean Peugeot )

Erm, what Music shops are there near me?

Well, I have justmoved to Llandudno Junction and I know that there was one in Rhyl many moons ago and so I will have to find out if thats still going???
There is also Bangor but again, is there anything there? I have zero clues, and so it means Chester direction for me and so yeah,thats 60 miles for me too!

But its ok... Its a day out away from the prison of my house.

 

[Marsman]

There's an audio store in Wrexham, but I've just realised that's over 50 miles from the Llandudno area. Never realised the distance was as much as that. Wrexham is much closer to Chester than I keep thinking it is.

Only Richer Sounds stores in Wales are Cardiff and Swansea. Nearest is Chester.

I suppose even if you don't end up buying something from one of these places you might visit, you might get a better idea of what it is that you are after and what you might need to spend to achieve that. Even if you end up buying online, that will be easier knowing what you learned. Worst case scenario, you go to an audio store in Wrexham, Chester or where ever and end up leaving none the wiser.

I can see why so many people just buy blind, when it comes to audio, living far from these audio stores. It's just so damn easy to click 'buy' and wait for the door bell to ring in a few days.

The advantage of living in cities; just pop down the road to the local audio store to have a demo.

 

[FatRakoon]

I got one of my best mates who lives in Wrexham. I have been there for a number of excuses so I am peachy going there for another excuse.
I am about to get my driving licence back ( Well, I hope I am anyway ) and one of the plans I have, is to go and see him anyway, either on my BMW Trike, or in my Mercedez.
Wrexham is not THAT far to be fair... Its a very easy route, so its fine.
I will ask my mate about it and see what he says. Make it an excuse to go there and see if anything takes my fancy?

 

[Marsman]

Oh well, that's two good reasons to go to Wrexham then.

Anyway, Acton Gate Audio is the audio store in question.

 

[FatRakoon]

Heck, not cheap are they!

I have made a pre-order setup...

Leema Tucana Aniversary Amp with a pair of DALI Speakers.

This is purely a nonsense order as I will go down and have a chat sometime in the next few weeks, and they will either make a sale or they wont.

 

[Marsman]

No, but that's normally what one off audio stores are really, certainly a lot more up market than chain stores like Richer Sounds. Still you did say you had budgets of £2k and £5k

Seriously though, you'll get some idea of what that kind of money will buy you. If the prices are too rich for what you actually want, then next stop might be Richer Sounds in Chester. Certainly more budget friendly, but you might find something suitable for considerably less.

Could always look at home cinema speakers and an AV receiver that connects to your PC via HDMI for PCM unprocessed sound if you'd prefer to have a surround sound system. Ultimately though, you'll pay more for a good 5.1 set up compared to a similarly good stereo one. Depends what you want from a sound set up and whether you can place the 5.1 speakers well, rather than bung them anywhere, but not really make the most of their potential.

 

[JasonM]

How to make something over complicated.

1) A stereo amp, I'm running a vintage Pioneer A-Z370, but any good stereo amp from last 25 years will do. Honestly you don't need to spend big money on a new amp, you can get second amps from the bay that will sound outstanding for fraction of price new.
2) A pair of decent speakers, go listen to some speakers, I run quad Yamaha NS-F160s.
3) Asus ST second hand from the bay £70? Or do what I do is use the DAC in my Pioneer amp and connect to SPDIF from motherboard.

Your difficult part is picking speakers you like, truth is most of the floor standings speakers from known brands will all be pretty good, then its down to speaker placement and small tweets like good cable,

 

[GoRedwings19]

Hi fatrakoon. I read your post with great interest. You said you moved to Llandudno junction. I know North Wales very very well. Bangor has no high end audio shop that I know of that would suit your needs. Neither most of the North Wales coastline. The nearest place which has anything remotely worth auditioning is in Wrexham or Chester. And some of the shops would allow you to home demo. I used to use Audio T a lot. But if you want to audition some serious hi fi equipment Chester would be the best that I can think of that is closest to you. Obviously there are placed like Manchester, Birmingham and Liverpool which could be considered.

Just go to a store with an open mind and tell them what you posted here. Don't go in with a specific build just listen to a few setups and take your fave test material and what your ears like the sound of then go from there. You don;t have to purchase there and then either make a shortlist and audition a few more times.

Many many years ago I discovered I didn't like the typical British amp manufacturers like Naim, Linn etc even though they are highly regarded in audio circles don't be afraid to listen to what your ears tell you. If you don't like the sound of a particular amp or brand etc don't be afraid to try something else which may not be as highly regarded.

One day just sit down and jot down the features you would really like and the ones you don't. Try to generalise the sound you are looking for like a highly resolving, hyper detailed sound or is it a more relaxed, refined sound you are after. With the budget you have in mind you can get some very good sounding equipment at both price points. But if you ears like something which is significantly less even better.

So start at Richer Sounds and work from there. If there is nothing you like there. Try Audio T in Wrexham or Chester. Personally I find the sales staff a little snobby but they might have what you are looking for. If that fails then you need to try out a specialist or as they try to say in audio circles an "Audio Boutique"...But they carry with them very esoteric brands with a crazy pricetag to match.

 

[melmac]

Ok, going to suggest a company called XTZ, I was sort of in the same boat as you a few years ago, well 9 years ago at this stage!! A rep from there was on Avforums. I bought a complete package from them, fronts, centers, surrounds and subwoofer with sub amp. The amp got delayed and because of that they sent me out a Room analyzer for free. Anyway, I bought the speakers from them in 2008 and I haven't heard anything as good for the price since and I will keep them until they fall apart. Best money that I have ever spent. Their support is brilliant as well, I had a problem with the sub amp at the end of last year and they sent out a replacement part without any issues or cost to myself.

www.xtzsound.eu

I can guarantee you will be happy with whatever speakers you buy from them. And, since you have problems getting the sound right, you should also buy the Room Analyzer Pro, it's really amazing how much difference it can make to your room.