So what do you recommend for the budget I outlined in the OP? To go new, or to look at second hand? Or maybe look into getting this 876 fixed, if places still doing repairs on them
New AV reciever
- Thread starter Wizzfizz
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Soldato
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Higher end avr have been pre outs
Honestly? A bigger budget
I wish it was as simple as saying "oh, you forgot about the XZ10 from so-and-so firm". In truth, there is no Shmoo of AV receivers that does all you want at just the price you're willing to pay. Partly that's because it sounds like you got an exceptionally good deal on your 876 and so your point of reference is somewhat skewed, and partly that you're ignoring the best part of a decade-and-a-half's inflation; but we've been through this already.
You and I share a similar predicament, albeit on different products. In my case I'm looking for a laptop I can chuck about on-site. It doesn't have to be spectacular but I would like a 17" screen. Since I'm going in to houses at various states of renovation then I'd rather not take anything too expensive. A used machine will do. I'd be less worried about a joiner dropping a hammer on it or a painter redecorating it. My last one had a 15" screen and was bought five years ago for less than £200. I figured £300-£400 would get something today, but it turns out that's wrong.
The market has changed. People haven't been buying midrange 17" laptops. Tablets has taken that business in all but the higher-end gaming market. It looks like I'm going to have to double my budget unless I want to buy a dog. It's not what I planned, but it's where the market is at.
Coming back to your little dilemma, from what you've said then I doubt repairing the Onkyo is viable. That's not the same as saying it can't be repaired; I just wonder though whether you'd throw money at a repair only for it to fail again with something else within 6 months.
Second-hand is an option, but how much you'll save when your requirements are pretty close to current models is debatable. There are a lot of people in the same boat as you, so much so that they're causing price inflation in the used market. Sony STR-DN1080s that we're widely discounted to £450 and even £399 retail new are now fetching £500+ as used sales. The frustrating thing is that it's not without it's share of HDMI/HDCP issues.
As for new, my advice would be to go listen to some gear at your budget and at a couple of steps higher.
Soldato
I was going to mention the STR-DN1080 in this thread. Whilst it doesn't have the hefty power stage the OP is used to, the STR-DN10*0 series has been great in the sound quality area for quite a few generations now, especially where music is concerned. It's likely to be one of the best "new" (old) options. But good luck finding one and at a reasonable price too. Don't go spending £500 on a used one now.
What issues are these? I have had mine for 6 months-ish now with zero HDMI/HDCP issues, including Sky Q that is known to be iffy for a lot of people. Other devices include PS4, Switch and Panasonic UB820.
What issues are these? I have had mine for 6 months-ish now with zero HDMI/HDCP issues, including Sky Q that is known to be iffy for a lot of people. Other devices include PS4, Switch and Panasonic UB820.
Soldato
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Think it has atmos bug or something
- Analogue PSU rather switchmode power supplies
- Separate output transistors per channel rather than shared between channels
- Larger main transformer - more kVA
- Better room EQ processing
- Separate PSUs for the pre-amp- and other key circuits
- Bigger capacitors (more charge storage) for greater current delivery
- Larger indiviual output transistors - more current, less prone to overheating, more linear
- Better quality / higher-grade components: capacitor types, resistor tolerances
- Better DAC chips
- More attention to inter-circuit shielding
- Time spent in design- and the specific selection of components for music performance
- Glass fibre circuitboards
- Attention spent on circuit layout for audio quality rather than cost of production
- Chassis design for vibration damping
- For AV: More pairs of output transistors per channel - increased current capacity. For Hi-Fi: a single pair of enormous output transistors - less brute power but more precise
- Selected/Matched output transistors - better performance as a pair, and greater consistency between channels
Soldato
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Fair enough. I'm always very sceptical of anything audio related as very few people seem to do objective testing.vit often comes with words which sound very BS. Fwiw I've never needed more power and I'm using denon w2200 in a reasonablely large room (although my hearing is fantastic so don't need to go that loud). How do you know what's in each amp (I'm think of av) as the spec sheets tend not to show much detail.This isn't an exhaustive list, but it should give you an idea that there can be a lot more going on under the bonnet than just more Watts per channel
- Analogue PSU rather switchmode power supplies
- Separate output transistors per channel rather than shared between channels
- Larger main transformer - more kVA
- Better room EQ processing
- Separate PSUs for the pre-amp- and other key circuits
- Bigger capacitors (more charge storage) for greater current delivery
- Larger indiviual output transistors - more current, less prone to overheating, more linear
- Better quality / higher-grade components: capacitor types, resistor tolerances
- Better DAC chips
- More attention to inter-circuit shielding
- Time spent in design- and the specific selection of components for music performance
- Glass fibre circuitboards
- Attention spent on circuit layout for audio quality rather than cost of production
- Chassis design for vibration damping
- For AV: More pairs of output transistors per channel - increased current capacity. For Hi-Fi: a single pair of enormous output transistors - less brute power but more precise
- Selected/Matched output transistors - better performance as a pair, and greater consistency between channels
You will have to decide for yourself. You have two choices.
Choice 1: If your budget is a firm £500, you really have no option but to go second hand. Any new £500 receiver will disappoint you.
Choice 2: When you get your 4K OLED and start gaming etc, if you want some level of future proofing with HDMI 2.1 etc. And you still want decent sound quality, then your only option is to increase your budget.
EDIT: I am going to suggest you try the Denon X2700H that was recommended earlier in the thread. Just make sure you buy from somewhere that is ok with you returning it if you don't like it. It does meaning spending a little more than you wanted to. But it might be the best option at the moment.
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I see Lucid has already answered this. You have it most of it covered. Higher end receivers have more features, more inputs and outputs, more pre-outs, Better power supply, usually better components and come with better EQ software.
Of course, you might not need to buy a better AV receiver. You might not ever need any of the extras that a higher end receiver has or You might not have speakers that would ever benefit from having a better receiver.
Some of it you'll get from the spec' on the manufacturer's web site. Stuff such as better room EQ, so Audyssey MultEQ / MultEQ XT / MultEQ XT32 would be easy to pick up. How they compare to say the different iterations of other room correction systems such as Yamaha YPAO/YPAO R.S.C., Dirac/Dirac-Live, Pioneer MCACC / Advanced MCACC / MCACC Pro, Sony DCAC, Meridian Room EQ etc requires some reading.
Other difference will be buried away or might require some extensive searching and reading between the lines. For example, Pioneer switched to 'digital' amplification in their AV receiver range - because digital is better, right?
Well, done right it can be very good. If you've heard Bel Canto or David Berning gear then you'll have first hand experience of how SMPS-based amps can be made to sound very good indeed... at a price. Some of the Rotel multichannel power amps went the same way, but now they're switching- or have switched back to analogue, I believe. Classe has been doing Class-D amps for a while.
Class-D does offer some advantages over analogue since it's chopping up the direct mains supply rather than storing a chunk of charge in some capacitors. In very basic terms your class-D amp is effectively wired direct to the power station, and so the current delivery can be very large. Sonos amps run on class-D, and they'll comfortably run a 4 Ohm load whereas a similarly-priced conventional analogue amp might baulk. The difference though is in the fidelity of the signal.
Where class-D is used primarily for its cost/space/weight/energy savings, or to offer a bigger wattage than is possible with a conventional analogue amp, then it's easy for the sound quality to take a bath. It's hard to shake that image, and so going class-D is a bit of a gamble. Yamaha has gone class-D with its new RX-V range, and of course we've all been listening to class-D amps in sound bars, iPod docks, smart speakers and probably car audio for longer than we realise.
The key to all of this "what's inside?" malarkey is reading and research.