New build thoughts and advise

[eLaD]

Looking for some help and advice on the below build. I can get all this for £1583.10 if I shop around, ideal looking to spend around £1500 but can add a bit more to it.

My basket at OcUK:

• 1 x Intel Core i7-14700KF (Raptor Lake-S) Socket LGA1700 Processor - Retail (SKU: PRO-INT-00801) = £359.99
• 1 x Cooler Master MasterLiquid 360L Core ARGB White All In One Liquid CPU Cooler - 360mm (SKU: HS-098-CM) = £74.99
• 1 x MSI B760 Gaming Plus WIFI (LGA 1700) DDR5 ATX Motherboard (SKU: MB-37M-MS) = £149.00
  Can get this for £139.99
• 1 x Corsair Vengeance RGB 32GB (2X16GB) DDR5 PC5-48000C36 6000MHz Dual Channel - White (SKU: MEM-CRS-02838) = £124.99
  Can get this for £114.49
• 1 x WD Black SN850X 1TB SSD M.2 2280 NVME PCI-E Gen4 Solid State Drive (WDS100T2X0E) (SKU: HD-590-WD) = £79.99
• 1 x MSI GeForce RTX 4070 SUPER Ventus 2X White OC 12GB GDDR6X PCI-Express Graphics (SKU: GRA-MSI-01574) = £629.99
  Can get this for £599.99
• 1 x Cooler Master MasterBox 600 Mid Tower ATX Case - White (SKU: CAS-CLM-02622) = £104.99
  Can be found for £99.98
• 1 x Kolink Regulator 850W 80 Plus Gold Gen5 Modular Power Supply (SKU: CA-07V-KK) = £109.99
  The alternative would be the Seasonic Focus GX 850 for £99.98

Total: £1,633.93​

Ideally looking for advice if this is worth it or if there is something else that may be better to get which gives a better if not the same performance for the same price as well as the potential if I go down the AMD route for CPU or GPU or both (mainly thinking CPU due to the recent intel issues we are aware of)

 

[Drumroll]

I wouldn’t suggest Intel at the moment, at least until all patches are in place and one can be confident the CPU won’t degrade suddenly.

 

[Gray2233]

What are you using the computer for exactly?

Just gaming, and if so what games and at what resolution?

 

[eLaD]

I wouldn’t suggest Intel at the moment, at least until all patches are in place and one can be confident the CPU won’t degrade suddenly.

That was my original thoughts on it after looking at everything that's happened.

What are you using the computer for exactly?

Just gaming, and if so what games and at what resolution?

It will be for gaming and hoping to get back into streaming as well. Gaming would be at 1080p but potentially move to bigger resolutions down the line.

 

[Drumroll]

A CPU like the 7800x3D should last for quite a while. The 5800x3D still throwing punches and is not a new CPU. Also, any Thermalright Peerless Assassin or Phantom Spirit, when using a case with good airflow, is more than enough. That’s a 30-40 odd pounds cooler.
The only thing I think AM5 is quite poor is for M-ATX motherboards. I would love to use a smaller case, but most motherboards will be limited to 2 NVMEs or limiting lanes. If I was to build an AM5 M-ATX today I would go with the MSI project Zero in a compatible small case. I personally prefer MSI over ASUS, just went for ASUS because was a good deal at the time, but of the bat, had to replace the thermal pads all around to get the NVMEs under 50C under load. I know that is a long gap until it thermal throttles, but I prefer like this. I’ve seen few good deals with some MSI Carbon around. Tempted for a change at some point.

 

[Rob_B]

With that budget, and if gaming is your main use, then go with a 7800X3D.
You can also pick up 32GB of 6000 CL30 for the same price as your choice of RAM.
Get an Arctic Freezer III 360
HUB have some great videos on the B650 boards, the one below is just a random one picked to complete the build.

My basket at OcUK:

• 1 x Arctic Liquid Freezer III High Performance CPU Water Cooler - 360mm (SKU: COO-ARC-01991) = £76.99
• 1 x TeamGroup Delta RGB 32GB (2X16GB) DDR5 PC5-44800C30 6000MHz Dual Channel Kit - White (FF4D532G6000HC30DC01) (SKU: MY-0B6-TG) = £109.99
• 1 x AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D Eight Core 5.00GHz (Socket AM5) Processor - Retail (SKU: CP-3DT-AM) = £329.99
• 1 x AMD - Space Marine & Unknown 9 Awakening Games Bundle (SKU: DIG-AMD-02908) = £0.00
• 1 x Seasonic G12 GM-850 80 Plus Gold Semi-Modular Power Supply (SKU: CA-08G-SS) = £99.95
• 1 x Cooler Master MasterBox 600 Mid Tower ATX Case - White (SKU: CAS-CLM-02622) = £104.99
• 1 x WD Black SN850X 1TB SSD M.2 2280 NVME PCI-E Gen4 Solid State Drive (WDS100T2X0E) (SKU: HD-590-WD) = £79.99
• 1 x MSI GeForce RTX 4070 SUPER Ventus 2X White OC 12GB GDDR6X PCI-Express Graphics (SKU: GRA-MSI-01574) = £629.99
• 1 x NVIDIA - Black Myth: Wukong Standard Edition Game Bundle (SKU: DIG-NVI-02698) = £0.00
• 1 x Asus Prime B650M-A WIFI II (Socket AM5) DDR5 Micro-ATX Motherboard (SKU: MB-6K6-AS) = £129.99

Total: £1,561.88 (includes delivery: £0.00)​

 

[eLaD]

A CPU like the 7800x3D should last for quite a while. The 5800x3D still throwing punches and is not a new CPU. Also, any Thermalright Peerless Assassin or Phantom Spirit, when using a case with good airflow, is more than enough. That’s a 30-40 odd pounds cooler.
The only thing I think AM5 is quite poor is for M-ATX motherboards. I would love to use a smaller case, but most motherboards will be limited to 2 NVMEs or limiting lanes. If I was to build an AM5 M-ATX today I would go with the MSI project Zero in a compatible small case. I personally prefer MSI over ASUS, just went for ASUS because was a good deal at the time, but of the bat, had to replace the thermal pads all around to get the NVMEs under 50C under load. I know that is a long gap until it thermal throttles, but I prefer like this. I’ve seen few good deals with some MSI Carbon around. Tempted for a change at some point.

The 7800x3d is £30 cheaper, with the chip issues on the intel it's very tempting to make the change.

What are the ATX boards like on the AMD chips now, would be looking at doing some slight overclocking to either keep it running at full boost speed or slightly over.

I like the looks of the AIO coolers over the air coolers, whilst yes there is price difference for me it's worth it.

 

[Raumarik]

I run a 7800X3D, AIO simply not worth it but if you are determined why not get the white variant? It'll look far better in a white case.

If you are looking at alternative cases, Fractal North white is fantastic, I have the mesh side panel variant.

 

[eLaD]

So after some deliberation and looking at everyones comments I am thinking of going down the route below. I know its intel, but with the patches rolling out slowly, I will wait until the problems have been confirmed to have been fixed.

Can anyone see any potential conflicts with the setup below that I need to be aware about? Ran it through ************ and the only warning is that the BIOS may need to be updated to work with the CPU if its on an older version. Also with regards to the GPU ive not dealt with the new connections 12HPWR but am I right in thinking that PSU supports it without the need to be a splitter?

My basket at OcUK:

• 1 x Asus GeForce RTX 4070 SUPER Dual OC 12GB GDDR6X PCI-Express Graphics Card (SKU: GRA-ASU-01516) = £589.99
• 1 x Arctic Liquid Freezer III ARGB High Performance CPU Water Cooler - 360mm (SKU: COO-ARC-01992) = £89.99
• 1 x Antec C5 ARGB Midi Tower - Black (SKU: CAS-ATC-02729) = £109.99
• 1 x Kolink Regulator 850W 80 Plus Gold Gen5 Modular Power Supply (SKU: CA-07V-KK) = £109.99
• 1 x WD Black SN850X 1TB SSD M.2 2280 NVME PCI-E Gen4 Solid State Drive (WDS100T2X0E) (SKU: HD-590-WD) = £80.00
• 1 x TeamGroup Delta RGB 32GB (2X16GB) DDR5 PC5-51200C40 6400MHz Dual Channel Ki (SKU: MY-0AV-TG) = £109.99
• 1 x Intel Core i7-14700KF (Raptor Lake-S) Socket LGA1700 Processor - Retail (SKU: PRO-INT-00801) = £359.99
• 1 x MSI B760 Gaming Plus WIFI (LGA 1700) DDR5 ATX Motherboard (SKU: MB-37M-MS) = £149.00
  

Total: £1,598.94​

 

[Quartz]

1 x Kolink Regulator 850W 80 Plus Gold Gen5 Modular Power Supply (SKU: CA-07V-KK) = £109.99

Kolink do not have a good reputation. You can get a Corsair or Seasonic for the same or less.

 

[Rob_B]

Why do you want to go with Intel?

 

[Tetras]

Ran it through ************ and the only warning is that the BIOS may need to be updated to work with the CPU if its on an older version.

The board also does not have flashback.

with regards to the GPU ive not dealt with the new connections 12HPWR but am I right in thinking that PSU supports it without the need to be a splitter?

It does, any ATX3.x/PCI-E 5 PSU won't need a splitter.

Ideally looking for advice if this is worth it or if there is something else that may be better to get which gives a better if not the same performance for the same price as well as the potential if I go down the AMD route for CPU or GPU or both (mainly thinking CPU due to the recent intel issues we are aware of)

I think you said you're playing at 1080p right now and maybe moving to 1440p later? If so, a 4070 Super near £600 is poor value, in my opinion, when a £450 4070 or 7800 XT will very comfortably handle 1080p and do decently well at 1440p if you upgrade your monitor.

Going Intel for a purely gaming build doesn't make sense to me, especially when we're not going to know if these CPUs are something you can trust for another 3-6 months (and potentially much longer than that). The 14700KF costs £360, together with the Intel motherboard and that's a huge investment for a CPU that we don't know if it'll survive in the longer-term, even with the BIOS updates applied.

 

[eLaD]

Going Intel for a purely gaming build doesn't make sense to me, especially when we're not going to know if these CPUs are something you can trust for another 3-6 months (and potentially much longer than that). The 14700KF costs £360, together with the Intel motherboard and that's a huge investment for a CPU that we don't know if it'll survive in the longer-term, even with the BIOS updates applied.

My basket at OcUK:

• 1 x Asus GeForce RTX 4070 SUPER Dual OC 12GB GDDR6X PCI-Express Graphics Card (SKU: GRA-ASU-01516) = £589.99
• 1 x Arctic Liquid Freezer III ARGB High Performance CPU Water Cooler - 360mm (SKU: COO-ARC-01992) = £89.99
• 1 x Antec C5 ARGB Midi Tower - Black (SKU: CAS-ATC-02729) = £109.99
• 1 x MSI MPG A850G PCIE5 UK PSU 850W 80 Plus Gold Modular Power Supply (SKU: CA-00Y-MS) = £109.99
• 1 x WD Black SN850X 1TB SSD M.2 2280 NVME PCI-E Gen4 Solid State Drive (WDS100T2X0E) (SKU: HD-590-WD) = £80.00
• 1 x TeamGroup Delta RGB 32GB (2X16GB) DDR5 PC5-51200C40 6400MHz Dual Channel Ki (SKU: MY-0AV-TG) = £109.99
• 1 x AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D Eight Core 5.00GHz (Socket AM5) Processor - Retail (SKU: CP-3DT-AM) = £329.99
• 1 x Asus TUF Gaming B650-Plus WIFI (Socket AM5) DDR5 ATX Motherboard (SKU: MB-6K0-AS) = £169.99

Total: £1,589.93​

If going down the AMD route how does this look? An alternative MOBO for a similar price would be good. Can get the MSI PRO B650-S WIFI or the Gigabyte AMD B650 EAGLE for £140 elsewhere if these are any good?

Swapped out the Kolnik PSU for the same-priced MSI one unless there is a recommended alternative

I was always under the impression that for Gaming and streaming on the same system intel is the better option. Whilst atm I dont stream I am wanting to get back into it at some point.

The reason some of the choices were made i.e. 4070 Super over a 7800XT is that this will be a system to last a minimum 3 years as I'll be going down the route of credit and don't want to then look at an upgrade 2 years down the line.

 

[Tetras]

The reason some of the choices were made i.e. 4070 Super over a 7800XT is that this will be a system to last a minimum 3 years as I'll be going down the route of credit and don't want to then look at an upgrade 2 years down the line.

I don't think it is going to help that much in the longer-term.

TPU have the 4070 Super as 16% faster than the 4070 (raster, no ray tracing, no upscaling), or 8% faster than the 7800 XT and it will cost you something like 30% more.

The 4070 Super and 7900 GRE made a lot of sense when they were like... £550 and the 4070 & 7800 XT were £500, but if the 4070 Super is nearly £600 and you can get a 4070 or 7800 XT for £450, the cost is just too high.

I was always under the impression that for Gaming and streaming on the same system intel is the better option. Whilst atm I dont stream I am wanting to get back into it at some point.

Well, it is definitely true that the 14700 has better productivity and multithreaded performance than the 7800X3D, but if one CPU is potentially broken and one is not, it makes it hard to recommend. I see a CPU as a kind of investment and if we can't trust them to last like previous gen CPUs have, you could be sitting on a paperweight when the warranty runs out.

 

[eLaD]

TPU have the 4070 Super as 16% faster than the 4070 (raster, no ray tracing, no upscaling), or 8% faster than the 7800 XT and it will cost you something like 30% more.

The 4070 Super and 7900 GRE made a lot of sense when they were like... £550 and the 4070 & 7800 XT were £500, but if the 4070 Super is nearly £600 and you can get a 4070 or 7800 XT for £450, the cost is just too high.

So what you are saying is that whilst there is a performance increase on the 4070 Super compared to the 7800XT the price of the Super being 589.99 doesn't compare to a PowerColor AMD Radeon RX 7800 XT Hellhound that I can get for 469.98?

 

[eLaD]

Would it be worth dropping the 4070 super then and taking a 7800XT and going for a build like this.

My basket at OcUK:

• 1 x Arctic Liquid Freezer III ARGB High Performance CPU Water Cooler - 360mm (SKU: COO-ARC-01992) = £89.99
• 1 x Antec C5 ARGB Midi Tower - Black (SKU: CAS-ATC-02729) = £109.99
• 1 x WD Black SN850X 1TB SSD M.2 2280 NVME PCI-E Gen4 Solid State Drive (WDS100T2X0E) (SKU: HD-590-WD) = £79.99
• 1 x TeamGroup Delta RGB 32GB (2X16GB) DDR5 PC5-51200C40 6400MHz Dual Channel Ki (SKU: MY-0AV-TG) = £109.99
• 1 x AMD Ryzen 9 7900X3D Twelve Core 5.60GHz (Socket AM5) Processor - Retail (SKU: CP-3DS-AM) = £398.99
• 1 x Asus TUF Gaming B650-Plus WIFI (Socket AM5) DDR5 ATX Motherboard (SKU: MB-6K0-AS) = £169.99
• 1 x MSI MPG A850G PCIE5 UK PSU 850W 80 Plus Gold Modular Power Supply (SKU: CA-00Y-MS) = £110.00
• 1 x PowerColor AMD Radeon RX 7800 XT HellHound 16GB GDDR6 PCI-Express Graphics Card (SKU: GRA-PWC-00986) = £449.98

Total: £1,518.92​

Upgrade the CPU to the R9 7900x3d with the GPU change and saving on price by around £70

 

[Tetras]

So what you are saying is that whilst there is a performance increase on the 4070 Super compared to the 7800XT the price of the Super being 589.99 doesn't compare to a PowerColor AMD Radeon RX 7800 XT Hellhound that I can get for 469.98?

Yup! Doesn't matter which, 4070 non-Super or 7800 XT, I think they're both much better value at (or near to) £450. Of course, it does depend on the prices being compared on both sides.

Would it be worth dropping the 4070 super then and taking a 7800XT and going for a build like this.

Upgrade the CPU to the R9 7900x3d with the GPU change and saving on price by around £70

There's a few things to consider if you switch to that build:
1. Are the extra cores worth the small performance loss that you get by going to 6(X3D)+6 from 8(X3D)+0.
2. Does an AMD card have any deficiencies in terms of the encoding/decoding or other capabilities that would impact your streaming?

 

[eLaD]

1. Are the extra cores worth the small performance loss that you get by going to 6(X3D)+6 from 8(X3D)+0.
2. Does an AMD card have any deficiencies in terms of the encoding/decoding or other capabilities that would impact your streaming?

Am I right in you saying the 7800x3d is the 8(X3D)+0 and the 7900x3d is the 6(X3D)+6 but with the extra cores on the r9 there is a small performance loss?
The card should handle the encoding/decoding fine. I was streaming on the 9700k 5700XT that im currently using and didnt face any problems.

 

[Tetras]

Am I right in you saying the 7800x3d is the 8(X3D)+0 and the 7900x3d is the 6(X3D)+6 but with the extra cores on the r9 there is a small performance loss?

Correct. The 7900X3D only has the 3D cache across 6 of the cores, which is one of the assumed reasons for the small loss of performance in games.

If you need the 12 cores, it isn't something I'd worry about, but if you don't the 7800X3D avoids this complication.

You might want to look more at the recently released 9700X too, by the way, since I'm not sure how it compares to the 7800X3D, 7900 non-X/X or 7900X3D.

 

[eLaD]

Correct. The 7900X3D only has the 3D cache across 6 of the cores, which is one of the assumed reasons for the small loss of performance in games.

If you need the 12 cores, it isn't something I'd worry about, but if you don't the 7800X3D avoids this complication.

You might want to look more at the recently released 9700X too, by the way, since I'm not sure how it compares to the 7800X3D, 7900 non-X/X or 7900X3D.

Thanks, didnt look at tha 9700X as i assumed it would be a lot more expensive but only looks to be minimal, will do some digging on that and compare.

Ahhh makes sense that there is the loss of performance as from what ive just seen the 8 core will have its 3d caching across all these cores.