New cabinet

Boris already ad libbing badly and getting boo'd at the French Embassy
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/video_and_audio/headlines/36798992

Totally embarrassing. But does anyone seriously expect otherwise from Boris? I'm still speechless that our new PM appointed him into this crucial role.

If we're going to disengage from the EU we should be doing it with honour, respect and dignity, making friends and allies as we depart and not enemies. We won't achieve this by sending a bumbling clown as our envoy.
 
Boris Johnson as Foreign Minister must be the greatest practical joke ever played by a British government.

:p
 
Boris Johnson as Foreign Minister must be the greatest practical joke ever played by a British government.

:p

He's started well (Times):

Boris Johnson was booed during his first public speech at the French embassy in London last night just hours after being branded a liar by the country’s foreign minister.

The new foreign secretary tried to use the event to reassure French guests that the UK was “not leaving Europe” but “finding a new relation” with the bloc. He was heckled by the audience.

He finished his talk, where the embassy was celebrating Bastille Day, by saying “to coin a phrase, toujours plus etroite”, meaning “ever closer”

However, the joke, which referred to his belief that the EU was heading for ever closer union, was received badly by the guests who booed him off stage.

He also caused angst when he said French citizens living in the UK would be protected, only if British citizens living in France were protected too.

Mr Johnson’s appointment has been the focus of an international backlash with EU ministers and officials branding him a political coward and “borderline racist”. Foreign Office staff were also said to be “gobsmacked” after his new post was announced.

Jean-Marc Ayrault, the French foreign minister, ditched conventional political niceties and accused Mr Johnson of telling lies during the referendum campaign, and implied that he was not fit for office.

“Now it is him who has his back against the wall,” he said on French radio. “He is up against it to defend his country and also so that the relationship with Europe is clear.”

Mr Johnson will be under pressure to apologise on Monday at his first meeting of European foreign ministers, for comments he made in May comparing the EU’s political ambitions to Hitler’s plan to unify Europe, one diplomat said.

Frank-Walter Steinmeier, the German foreign minister, called ’s Mr Johnson’s behaviour in the lead-up to the EU vote “monstrous” and argued he had tried to “bolt from responsibility” once the result came through on June 24.

“To be honest, I find this outrageous,” he said. “It’s not just bitter for Great Britain. It’s also bitter for the EU.”

Mr Johnson dismissed the hostility in typical fashion. “After a vote like the referendum result on June 23, it is inevitable there is going to be a certain amount of plaster coming off the ceiling in the chancelleries of Europe,” he said. He also claimed he had received a “charming letter” from Mr Ayrault.

At a lecture at the Foreign Office on Wednesday former cabinet secretaries, top civil servants and academics were “all gobsmacked, absolutely gobsmacked” when word went round that the former mayor had got the top job, according to the journalist Sue Cameron, who was present.

“It was quite amazing,” she told the BBC. “Suddenly everyone started looking at their phones and the word went round ‘It’s Boris, and you can’t leave the room just now because Boris is coming up the stairs’ . . . I think it took a bit of adjusting.”

Donald Tusk, the Polish president of the European Council of EU leaders, publicly denounced Mr Johnson’s “absurd arguments”.

The surprise appointment has raised doubts over whether European foreign ministers will scrap a planned dinner on Sunday night to discuss Brexit.

Mr Johnson’s first meeting with other EU foreign ministers will now take place early on Monday morning at a breakfast attended by John Kerry, the US secretary of state.

His international gaffes are widespread. Observers both at home and abroad have already questioned how a meeting with the president of Turkey might go after the MP won a poetry competition where he called Recep Tayyip Erdogan a “******er”.

His faux pas provoked laughter in the House of Commons yesterday when the Labour MP Kevin Brennan said: “the appointment of the new foreign secretary must be the most remarkable since the emperor Caligula appointed his horse as a senator”.

As well as upsetting Europeans, Mr Johnson has a track record of gaffes that have angered Washington, from his comments that President Obama was biased against Britain because of his Kenyan “ancestral dislike” to a 2007 comparison of Hillary Clinton to “a sadistic nurse in a mental hospital”.

The Foreign Buffoon can only leave improve our relations. :p
 
Totally embarrassing. But does anyone seriously expect otherwise from Boris? I'm still speechless that our new PM appointed him into this crucial role.

If we're going to disengage from the EU we should be doing it with honour, respect and dignity, making friends and allies as we depart and not enemies. We won't achieve this by sending a bumbling clown as our envoy.

As I said in the other thread about this.

Boris isn't in charge of anything to do with brexit and he won't be in charge of anything to do with trade deals, both of which are being administered by specific departments. He also won't be in charge of any major incidents, which will be controlled by No. 10. So basically the foreign office has become a showpiece, with no real power.

There are also suggestions he has been put there so he can hang himself out to dry without affecting the government.
 
Good, whilst the Chinese and the US continue to not give a **** about climate change us hampering our businesses with "green taxes" only puts our companies at a disadvantage and even if we did, we're so small compared to those two it the actual affect on climate change we offer ends up being like a bloke turning up at the scene of an Earthquake that's destroyed a city with a dustpan and brush.

That's not the case at all with the US. Trump and many republicans may be be ignoring climate change but the democrats and government are very much fighting it. Both the US and China have signed up to major international agreements on limiting emissions, such as the most recent Paris one and there is a major play against coal in both locations.

If we back out on our agreements - ignoring the potential for trump getting in - we would be pretty much the only major country to do so.

We're not going to be restricted by EU policies now, so emissions and so on will get punted down the field as less important

There are a myriad of legally binding international agreements we have agreed to. Leaving the EU makes little difference to those. For example the new climate change legislation that passed a few days ago through parliament.
 
You haven't really explained why we have to sign a free-trade agreement with them at all. The status quo is surely an option if we aren't keen on the terms of any FTA deal?

And it's time to get over the butt-hurt over Brexit now. It's pretty clear that we're leaving. Our new PM has said we're going. She's appointed a team to negotiate our exit. And she's said there will be no early election. Game over.

The issue is not the problem of Tariffs although they have an impact its really about the non-tariff barriers to trade. They are far more of a problem and much harder to deal with.

As an example say we took the David Davis route of no EEA agreement and fell back on WTO rules then we would be subject to the inspection system applied to goods that are not part of a mutual recognition agreement with the EU. So if you had agricultural products you wanted to ship to somewhere in the EU then they would need to go through the border inspection posts (BIP).

There are not any designated BIP between the UK and EU right now. They would need to be built, outfitted, staffed and set running. That can be done but will take time during that time potentially the UK will not be able to export any agricultural products to the EU, so that is a £12bn a year industry that effectively stops dead. Obviously even once you get the going it will be a struggle to stay on top of an inspection regime for a large number of goods and the process of export will slow down and the costs will escalate dramatically for exporters.

So why do you need a trade treaty with the USA or Canada etc? Its the same problem as with the EU. If you are a widget manufacturer in Manchester and you want to sell your widget in the USA then it will have to meet the appropriate US widget safety and quality regulations. How does it do that?

One way is for the US inspection system to check it on import, but this costs time and money and slows up trade considerably. The second way is that the USA grants recognition to the UK widget inspection system and accepts that if it meets the UK standard it is good enough to meet the US standard as well. This is the common approach in international trade and it is done by way of mutual recognition treaties. remember when Leave said the EU has no trade treaties with the USA, kind of a lie, whilst no overarching trade treaty is in place there are over 35 mutual recognition treaties between the EU and the USA. This is why products made in the UK/EU can be exported to the USA without needing to be inspected at the border entry point to ensure they meet US regulatory standards. When the UK leaves the EU those need to be re-negotiated. This is the complex part of trade negotiations and why treaties usually take 7-10 years to negotiate. You need people to negotiate who have detailed knowledge of the UK widget regulations and the US regulations to get an agreement that meets both standards. Now multiply that by 100,000's or millions of different products you want to export. Multiply again by the 161 members of the WTO or even just the 53 countries the EU has trade agreements with which benefit the UK and that doesn't actually cover the multiplicity of mutual recognition agreements that the EU has with countries. So how long do you think our 20 trade negotiators will need to do all this?

The problems of non tariff barriers are incredibly complex and it is why the EU has been slowly building it's internal system for over many decades. That work goes out the window when the UK leaves the EU and its absolute pie in the sky idiocy to think it will be redone in just a few years. This is a 30-50 year project and during that time the UK will be considerably poorer and if it breaks up which I personally think the economic consequences will facilitate, then it will be poorer, smaller, weaker and a lot less relevant.

Sorry for the long answer but this is why we need treaties and why rebuilding a complex system of treaties that have been built up over the last 43 years of EU membership is not going to be done in the next 2 years or so.

The decision for Brexit is one that will have long and very far reaching ramifications for probably the next several decades and we have haven't even discussed the kind of restructuring of the UK economy, educational, financial etc systems that will be needed. This is why I see it as a 30 to 50 year project to basically get back to where we were on 22nd June. So yep I feel pretty butt hurt about it but that is because it is such a huge generationally damaging mistake and why I am not going to simply accept the vote on one day of 17 million people out of population of 65 million that wasn't even a majority of those who could have voted. Trade union legislation is being pushed by the Tories that says if a majority of union members vote to strike it is not binding unless its is over 40% of those who could have voted. Yet 37.5% voting leave is enough to change the entire economic and constitutional future of the UK, excuse me if I call ******** to that idea.
 
Huffington post. :eek: How can anyone actually read the garbage that comes from that. It is bad enough listening to the ones that come on the Sky News papers.

so are you saying that she didn't say any of those thing and it was just made up ? Forget the editorial artistic licence, and just focus on the stuff she is actually quoted on saying.
 
Doubt the EU will exist in several decades.

France will be out the EU within the next 3 years I reckon. Marine Le Pen's popularity is getting greater by the day.

The future for the UK us worrying, but the future of the EU is very bleak, especially if another major nation leaves
 
If all nations leave then the future of Europe is very bleak.

See 1914 and 1939 for the last period in which European countries were not speaking to each other.
 
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