New Focus Rs

Moeks · 10 Feb 2010 at 11:19

Sounds like a cop out to me, the 2.5 litre 5 cylinder engine in it now is great, makes a wonderful noise and has a fantastic character ...so they are replacing it with a 2 litre engine no doubt with only 4 cylinders and a sewing machine motor

The mighty BMW M5 has fallen too, although nowhere near so badly as it had a lot more breathing room with it's power-train config, from a 5.0 V10 to a 4.4V8 bi-turbo.

I do not like where all this is going to be honest. Social responsibilities be damned!

Oh I almost forgot, to add my favourite old adage, 'there ain't no replacement for displacement!'

Goliath · 10 Feb 2010 at 12:38

Gonzo0 said:
Mk1 Focus RS is where its all at

Getting mine soon

Good man!

Dutch Guy · 10 Feb 2010 at 13:45

I actually like the idea of having an electric motor driving the rear wheels, that way you get instant traction from the rear wheels and still plenty of power combined.

Gonzo0 · 10 Feb 2010 at 15:33

Goliath said:
Good man!

you on RSOC??

Already got a list of mods in waiting including AE map and TUNA!!

Cookeh · 10 Feb 2010 at 17:30

Man I love the new shape Focus - and that looks interesting indeed

alexthecheese · 10 Feb 2010 at 19:07

[TW]Taggart;15932265 said:
I dont see the problem with this TBH. A bit of KERS routed to the rear for 4wd + for more power... how long till its hacked and put on a button like an 09 f1 car!

If people cant see this is the way its going to go for performance cars then sucks to be you, time to wake up.

Personally I blame the prius for giving hybrid tech a bad taste in the mouth. When its on topgear and blows them away, you'll all be wanting one then.

Couldn't agree with you more. This greeno RS will be a fantastic car - just shame it's 3 years away!

Saytan · 10 Feb 2010 at 20:16

300bhp performance and 40mpg.

what's not to like?

Jonnycoupe · 10 Feb 2010 at 22:13

Gaygle said:
Because people who buy these car's don't care about emissions? And considering they aren't going to sell hardly any of these cars, it's not like it's going to save the environment.

People fit nitrous oxide to save the environment?

Kappa · 10 Feb 2010 at 22:13

I HIGHLY doubt this would get approved, the cost to build a hybrid RS would be astronomical, and not profitable unless you look at £40k+, or it sells as many as a Focus Zetec 1.6.

When developing a car like this, a lot of ideas get sprung about (like the idea of a 2.0T Fiesta ST) and get developed, but not approved, seems some engineer leaked this out or AutoExpress is up to its usual BS.

A special edition RS is likely, the Swiss are getting 50 special editions, although no change to powertrain.

Jonnycoupe · 10 Feb 2010 at 22:15

Dutch Guy said:
I actually like the idea of having an electric motor driving the rear wheels, that way you get instant traction from the rear wheels and still plenty of power combined.

Its for posh DSC options aswell.

Why stabilise the car by braking the wheel when you can accelerate the other one.

Simon · 10 Feb 2010 at 22:34

Moeks said:
The mighty BMW M5 has fallen too, although nowhere near so badly as it had a lot more breathing room with it's power-train config, from a 5.0 V10 to a 4.4V8 bi-turbo.

The 4.4 V8 turbo will generate more power and more low down torque though, hardly a step down. 500lb/ft at 1500rpm from memory.

Clarkey · 10 Feb 2010 at 22:47

Simon said:
500lb/ft at 1500rpm from memory.

Simon · 10 Feb 2010 at 22:55

Clarkey said:

Yep 555hp too, so quite how it is a downgrade is beyond me.

(Source this months EVO - which is the best edition in a while)
They have the M5 Hurricane RS in it too, 740hp twin supercharged version of the M5 V10, 0-124mph = 10seconds :eek:

Moeks · 10 Feb 2010 at 22:59

Simon said:
The 4.4 V8 turbo will generate more power and more low down torque though, hardly a step down. 500lb/ft at 1500rpm from memory.

Yes I know it will, but it's not exactly my point, they are reducing capacity and the number of cylinders and getting this extra power using forced induction. Which is ok if you like turbo cars, but personally I prefer a big N/A engine, I just like the character more, I like the way they feel. I'm reserving judgement on the BMW engine, I've no doubt it will be brilliant in it's own right, but when you look at what went before, I am not so sure. What if you put a pair of turbos on the 5.0 V10 instead ? ...or better yea a supercharger.

Ain't no replacement for displacement. I hate to keep saying it, but I happen to believe it to be true a lot of the time, you can do things to make up the difference sure, but once you have all the other gubins in place ....you can still get more by simply making the engine 'bigger'.

I'm not so interested in which is the most efficient (the cars we are talking about here are not designed for fuel economy, they are performance cars, but there is more to that than just outright power and speed, it's about character too, the sound the feel etc) as which is the nicest to drive, which feels, sounds and goes the best. Maybe the bi-turbo V8 will, maybe it won't, but on paper at least, the loss of 2 cyliners and 600cc does not sit well with me.

Simon · 10 Feb 2010 at 23:05

Future EU 'fines' on average vehicle fleet CO2 output is the driver for all of these changes.

When the fines are €95 for every gram/km over the target, per car. You can see why OEMs are keen to downsize engines!

As for this V8. I think 500lb/ft @ 1500rpm suggests its gonna drive like a NA car.

The next Focus will be better overall in my opinion, if only due to ditching that heavy 5cylinder and sticking a decent 4 cylinder in, especially if they use direct injection.

Gaygle · 10 Feb 2010 at 23:07

Moeks said:
Yes I know it will, but it's not exactly my point, they are reducing capacity and the number of cylinders and getting this extra power using forced induction. Which is ok if you like turbo cars, but personally I prefer a big N/A engine, I just like the character more, I like the way they feel. I'm reserving judgement on the BMW engine, I've no doubt it will be brilliant in it's own right, but when you look at what went before, I am not so sure. What if you put a pair of turbos on the 5.0 V10 instead ? ...or better yea a supercharger.

Ain't no replacement for displacement. I hate to keep saying it, but I happen to believe it to be true a lot of the time, you can do things to make up the difference sure, but once you have all the other gubins in place ....you can still get more by simply making the engine 'bigger'.

I'm not so interested in which is the most efficient (the cars we are talking about here are not designed for fuel economy, they are performance cars, but there is more to that than just outright power and speed, it's about character too, the sound the feel etc) as which is the nicest to drive, which feels, sounds and goes the best. Maybe the bi-turbo V8 will, maybe it won't, but on paper at least, the loss of 2 cyliners and 600cc does not sit well with me.

This is exactly my point. It isn't about ability, because no one is arguing about that. It's about character. It's about "scaling back" for environmental issues and i hate that, especially in the context of BMW M5's/M3's etc

Sure it's a 4.4 V8 TT now, but in 10 years time - what then? A 3.5 V6 TSI?

Alex UK · 10 Feb 2010 at 23:10

Gaygle said:
This is exactly my point. It isn't about ability, because no one is arguing about that. It's about character. It's about "scaling back" for environmental issues and i hate that, especially in the context of BMW M5's/M3's etc

Sure it's a 4.4 V8 TT now, but in 10 years time - what then? A 3.5 V6 TSI?

I completely agree. The current V10 is beyond awesome. The new TT V8, whilst on paper a better engine, will be less exciting IMO.

Moeks · 10 Feb 2010 at 23:10

Gaygle said:
This is exactly my point. It isn't about ability, because no one is arguing about that. It's about character. It's about "scaling back" for environmental issues and i hate that, especially in the context of BMW M5's/M3's etc

Sure it's a 4.4 V8 TT now, but in 10 years time - what then? A 3.5 V6 TSI?

Nail on the head

...I'm glad someone understands my point correctly.

I know why they are doing it, but it doesn't mean I have to like it, and that I wont moan about it, and tell every BMW salesman I can that I don't.

Jonnycoupe · 10 Feb 2010 at 23:10

Soon we will have characterless 4 pot M3's.....

Moeks · 10 Feb 2010 at 23:16

Jonnycoupe said:
Soon we will have characterless 4 pot M3's.....

...with quad concentric terra-scroll electromagnetic photon injected turbos of doom no doubt to give them 1000bhp. But it will sound like **** ...feel more like something that should be on a moon buggy and really have all the appeal of ..well of a piece of space tech, which is great and the geek in me likes that ...a lot, but not in my car, it's turns my petrol-head right off.

Hell I like '60-'70s muscle cars, I like the Triumph Stag etc ...many of which are actually crap to be honest, but I like them because of the way they are, the noises they make, the feel ...the way they make me feel.