I don't understand how "on track throughout" can mean anything else? Sure the rules aren't confirmed and may change, but in terms of interpreting what has been written, "on track throughout" means being on track throughout.
New Formula 1 Qualifying Rules!
- Thread starter Skeeter
- Start date
I don't understand how "on track throughout" can mean anything else? Sure the rules aren't confirmed and may change, but in terms of interpreting what has been written, "on track throughout" means being on track throughout.
In reality it will go the way of most other Strategy Group suggestions that get put in front of the WMC, it will be rejected.
The bigger issue is that they all spent the whole day locked in a room with the express instruction to agree the 2017 regulations, and all they have come up with is a way to **** about with the one part that wasn't broken.
The 2017 rules decision has been pushed back AGAIN, this time to the 30th April. They should have been agreed by this coming Monday.
These guys also interpret it as being on track all the time, needing durable tyres:
https://www.carthrottle.com/post/bo...qualifying-format-set-to-be-introduced-in-f1/
But they also raise a good point about Red Flags. How would that work? If you red flag a session you would effectively automatically eliminate the next few drivers without giving them a chance to compete. In my Spa example your looking at 4+ minutes from a session restarting before times are set, which would be enough to eliminate up to 3 drivers. If you throw a red flag at 6:59 into Q1 you lock 22nd, 21st, 20th and probably 19th into their grid slots rather unfairly.
The end of Q3 could also be dull. At the moment you could get 10 people all crossing the line one after the other going for pole with positions jumping about. Under this scheme, there will only be 5 cars left on track with 6 laps to go, dwindling down to a final minute and a half of just waiting for the 2 cars left to finish.
https://www.carthrottle.com/post/bo...qualifying-format-set-to-be-introduced-in-f1/
But they also raise a good point about Red Flags. How would that work? If you red flag a session you would effectively automatically eliminate the next few drivers without giving them a chance to compete. In my Spa example your looking at 4+ minutes from a session restarting before times are set, which would be enough to eliminate up to 3 drivers. If you throw a red flag at 6:59 into Q1 you lock 22nd, 21st, 20th and probably 19th into their grid slots rather unfairly.
The end of Q3 could also be dull. At the moment you could get 10 people all crossing the line one after the other going for pole with positions jumping about. Under this scheme, there will only be 5 cars left on track with 6 laps to go, dwindling down to a final minute and a half of just waiting for the 2 cars left to finish.
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I'm not certain, I've covered both bases. If pit stops aren't allowed its a stupid system, and if pit stops are allowed its a stupid system due to the time it takes to make a stop. I even did all that maths and stuff using a worked example at Spa 
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It's a stupid set of rules whichever way you read them. The red flag thing nails it for me, there's no way the WMC would approve it, they'd have to be bat crap crazy.
.It's a stupid set of rules whichever way you read them. The red flag thing nails it for me, there's no way the WMC would approve it, they'd have to be bat crap crazy.
Not if you throw one with 15 minutes to go it doesn't.
You could throw a red flag at Spa 3 and a half minutes into Q1, before anyone has set a time, and have effectively eliminated last place. Everyone comes back to the pits, the session restarts, 3 and a half minutes later, still nobody has set a time, and you have to eliminate the last place driver. But who would that be? Nobody has set a time?
You could throw a red flag at Spa 3 and a half minutes into Q1, before anyone has set a time, and have effectively eliminated last place. Everyone comes back to the pits, the session restarts, 3 and a half minutes later, still nobody has set a time, and you have to eliminate the last place driver. But who would that be? Nobody has set a time?
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The problem with points for qualifying is F1 isn't an even playing field. Your rewarding the driver based on the teams effort in building a car. There's no 'racing' or strategy involved in Qualifying, its just about outright pace. Do you think F1 would have been better if we awarded Mercedes drivers an extra 3 to 5 points each race last year, meaning the title would have been decided way before the final race?
What we need is what you suggest, qualifying and the race to be completely detached to allow varying strategies and so that the grid isn't nessasarily just the cars lined up in outright pace order.
Its not complicated. It a good system that works well elsewhere.
The issue is that it doesn't work when combined with how F1 works and the current rules.
If you put an F1 car on a track with 10 laps of fuel and a set of Ultra Soft tyres for 15 minutes, it will get slower as the session progresses, not faster. The elimination system relies on a format where cars get faster (or at least stay consistent) over the whole session.
The time thing is actually going to be quite significant to the lower teams. Currently they can have contracts with sponsors that say "at least 18 minutes of TV air time in Qualifying", whereas under this rule they would have to say "at least 7 minutes". Might not sound much, but If your at the back of the grid with small sponsors on very marginal contracts, that 60% reduction in exposure is going to affect those deals.
I'll work through one session to try and explain my concern.
At qualifying pace on the softer end of the tyres available usually there's 1 hot lap of outright pace in a set, maybe 2 at some tracks.
Q3 is 16 minutes, with the first elimination at 7 minutes in.
That means that all 22 cars will have to have set a time within that first 7 minutes, so that will be using that tyres 1 lap of outright pace.
From then on there are 2 options:
If theres no pit stops - you have 9 more minutes of drivers on ever degrading tyres going slower, rendering that 9 minutes utterly pointless.
If there are pit stops - nobody who is within the next 2 or 3 places to be eliminated can make a stop and get out in time to try and post an improved time, so will be eliminated anyway. Rendering most of the remaining 9 minutes utterly pointless.
In summary, I can see a system where the best times in a session are all posted within the first 7/6/5 minutes, and the remaining 9 minutes of the session are just people unable to improve waiting around to be eliminated.
I also don't think that dwindling the field down to 2 cars at the end is exciting. There were complaints when the rules mean lots of times we only saw 6 or 8 cars in Q3, under these rules you would have only 8 at most, and the number would drop to just 2 at the end. Currently (ignoring Mercedes dominance) with 3 minutes to go in Q3 we could theoretically have any one of 10 people on pole. Under these proposals, with 3 minutes to go we will know it will only be between 2 drivers, which could be a) on old tyres not likely to improve, b) in the pits or making a pit stop meaning they won't have time to improve, or c) out on track and going for it, but only 2 cars.
A 10 way shootout for pole is more exciting than a 2 way one.
And then theres the Red Flag issue, which basically kills the whole idea on its own for me.
At qualifying pace on the softer end of the tyres available usually there's 1 hot lap of outright pace in a set, maybe 2 at some tracks.
Q3 is 16 minutes, with the first elimination at 7 minutes in.
That means that all 22 cars will have to have set a time within that first 7 minutes, so that will be using that tyres 1 lap of outright pace.
From then on there are 2 options:
If theres no pit stops - you have 9 more minutes of drivers on ever degrading tyres going slower, rendering that 9 minutes utterly pointless.
If there are pit stops - nobody who is within the next 2 or 3 places to be eliminated can make a stop and get out in time to try and post an improved time, so will be eliminated anyway. Rendering most of the remaining 9 minutes utterly pointless.
In summary, I can see a system where the best times in a session are all posted within the first 7/6/5 minutes, and the remaining 9 minutes of the session are just people unable to improve waiting around to be eliminated.
I also don't think that dwindling the field down to 2 cars at the end is exciting. There were complaints when the rules mean lots of times we only saw 6 or 8 cars in Q3, under these rules you would have only 8 at most, and the number would drop to just 2 at the end. Currently (ignoring Mercedes dominance) with 3 minutes to go in Q3 we could theoretically have any one of 10 people on pole. Under these proposals, with 3 minutes to go we will know it will only be between 2 drivers, which could be a) on old tyres not likely to improve, b) in the pits or making a pit stop meaning they won't have time to improve, or c) out on track and going for it, but only 2 cars.
A 10 way shootout for pole is more exciting than a 2 way one.
And then theres the Red Flag issue, which basically kills the whole idea on its own for me.
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No, it really wont.
It will be 2018 at the earliest. And the latest direction is one where the "5 to 6 seconds faster" target has been dropped to "2 to 3 seconds faster", and the changes in the rules are based on increasing aero through increased complexity of front wings, sidepods, rear wings and diffusers, all of which reduce the cars ability to follow each other.
The 2017 (2018) cars will be faster, but the racing will be worse.
This is just it, it really wont. A laps worth of fuel is worth a a fraction of a second, whereas the difference between a 1 lap old Ultra Soft and a 10 lap old one is going to be a number of seconds.
You don't see guys out now doing 10 lap runs in Q3 and posting their pole time at the end, because its not the fastest way. The 1st lap of a run is the fastest, not the last, thats why they do single lap stints and then change tyres for fresh ones.
LMP2 is going to be very interesting to watch over the next few years. Its moving to a single engine, limited customer chassis manufacturer structure, which aligns closely to what I think F1 should do.
I'm going to follow that closely and see how it does.
I'm going to follow that closely and see how it does.
Every track other than those in Europe are government subsidised, and there's a queue of other places waiting to join. Selling tickets to have actual people turn up at the races is completely irrelevant for most circuits.