New Gaming PC for son

[Pearcy93]

Hiya,

I used to be registered on here way back in the day (overclocking AXIA AMD Athlons with lots of noisy fans!) but my account must have become old / deleted.

Anyway, I am really out of date with things and whilst I usually do loads of investigation myself, I am quite time poor and my sons birthday is fast approaching. I have a 10th gen i5 gaming rig myself that I built 3-4 years ago and now looking for a new mid range gaming PC for my son. i have realised how out of date I am and looking for some advise please! - budget is around £1.2 - £1.3k for the base unit (he already has a 27" Iiyama curved monitor, keyboard, mouse etc.

Whilst I have used AMD in the past, I have been an Intel guy for the last 15+ years and I like the stability, perceived or not! So here are my thoughts so far based on limited research...

Case - My son likes some of the Fractual cases, likely mid tower, and I have a Fractual 7 which seems nice, so likely something from their range.

i5 -either a 12600 or maybe a 14th gen (there doesn't seem to be that much difference from what I have read)

Motherboard - here's the real tricky one I am stuck on. The B760 boards look to be mostly limited / basic. I hear that a 790 board with a 12th gen I5 'may' out perform a 14th gen in a B760 board for example. I realise there are other variables as well, such as the Ram being DDR4 in most B760 boards with DDR5 being supported in z790 boards but again I hear that isn't a big performance difference between DDR4 and DDR5 for gaming. I would prefer a full size ATX ideally, just due to space etc.

Ram - not sure if DDR4 or DDR5 - see above!

PSU - I like the look of the Corsair RMe series, likely a 750w

Graphics card - I am thinking a GeForce GTX4060 8GB

1GB NVEm SSD for main drive
2GB SATA 7200 drive for storage

No additional case fans as the case will come with at least 2x 120 or 140 fans

CPU fan - not sure, but something basic / quiet

(my son isn't keen on flashing lights etc. so no RGB's needed etc.)


Any thoughts / advice on spec please!

 

[Pearcy93]

Ah, and the intended use would help wouldn't it! - he likes plying things like GTA5 (and hence will get GTA6 when it's released on PC whenever), BeamG drive, and then also building type games off Steam, such as City Skylines

 

[Gray2233]

You could do a lot better for £1200~ than a 4060, avoid that card at all costs, it's garbage for the price point.

My basket at OcUK:

• 1 x Sapphire Radeon RX 7900 GRE Gaming 16GB GDDR6 PCI-Express Graphics Card (SKU: GRA-SPR-01588) = £549.95
• 1 x WD Blue SN580 2TB SSD NVME M.2 2280 PCIe Gen4 Solid State Drive (SKU: STO-WDC-00541) = £119.99
• 1 x AMD Ryzen 5 7600 Six Core 5.10GHz (Socket AM5) Processor - Retail (SKU: CP-3DW-AM) = £182.98
• 1 x TeamGroup Vulcan EXPO 32GB (2X16GB) DDR5 PC5-48000C38 6000MHz Dual Channel Kit - Black (FLABD532G6000HC38ADC01) (SKU: MY-0B2-TG) = £99.95
• 1 x MSI MAG A850GL 850W 80 Plus Gold ATX 3.0 PCIE5Modular Power Supply (SKU: CA-012-MS) = £89.99
• 1 x Gigabyte B650M Gaming X AX (Socket AM5) DDR5 Micro ATX Motherboard (SKU: MB-5BG-GI) = £169.99
• 1 x Aerocool Dryft Mini v2 Micro-ATX Case (SKU: CAS-AER-00607) = £55.00

Total: £1,267.85 (includes delivery: £0.00)​

This is a build I specced for someone earlier, going Intel is doing yourself and him a disservice CPU wise, especially in the long term. The 7600 is a fantastic gaming CPU and AM5 has legs, you'll have upgrades for years to come and be in the position to upgrade to a 8800X3D/9800X3D down the road. You also noted that he's into open world and some sim/build type games, they often benefit massively from the 3D cache of the AMD X3D CPU's, so being able to move to one in the future will be of definite benefit.

If you're not keen on AMD GPU's, swap the 7900GRE for a 4070 Super at around the same price.

The case can be swapped out for whatever you or he would prefer, just try and aim for something with good airflow and enough room for whatever GPU.

 

[Tetras]

i5 -either a 12600 or maybe a 14th gen (there doesn't seem to be that much difference from what I have read)

The 12600KF is one of the best priced Intel CPUs for lower-end/midrange gaming PCs (@ ~£150), though it does find it hard to compete with the 7500F/7600. Note that the 12600 is not the same CPU (zero E-Cores) and is rarely well priced.

The B760 boards look to be mostly limited / basic. I hear that a 790 board with a 12th gen I5 'may' out perform a 14th gen in a B760 board for example.

There's pretty much zero chance of that, unless you're talking about extreme memory/CPU overclocking, but even then I'd expect a 14th gen CPU to have a stronger memory controller and be from generally superior silicon.

The 13th and 14th gen i5 K CPUs (non-K CPUs are different and don't have the same cache structure, except for the 14600) are a decent chunk faster in games compared to 12th gen CPUs whenever you're CPU bound and have significantly more L2 cache (2MB from 1.25 per core and 4MB from 2MB per E-Core cluster.

The lower-end B760 boards (e.g. around £100) are generally not great and I'd be very reluctant to use a high-end CPU on one, but if you get an entry-level ~£150 DDR5 board like the B760 Gaming X or B760 Gaming Plus (MSI) they should have no issue with an i5 and I'd expect them to be fine with something like a 14700K, assuming there's no 24/7 blender or something heavy like that happening here.

A higher-end Z790 board isn't a bad investment (in terms of VRM/thermals and connectivity), but obviously within reason because there's no point buying a £150 CPU and putting it into a £300 motherboard. AM5 motherboards usually have less limitations there, since they don't need to share PCI-E 5.0 lanes between the M.2 slots and the graphics card. If you buy for 14th gen, I'd make sure the board has flashback for BIOS flash with an unsupported CPU.

The Intel CPUs between the 12600KF and a 13600K or 14600K are very hard to recommend for gaming because they either perform similar (or slightly worse, in the case of the 13400), or there's little real benefit for gaming. They're decent for productivity only builds though. The 13600K was widely recommended on release, but with the 7500F/7600 available and AM5 motherboards more affordable, it is looking overpriced.

Graphics card - I am thinking a GeForce GTX4060 8GB

As Gray2233 has said, you can do way better than that for the budget you have, the only thing these really have going for them is the power consumption.

Example build.

Swap the i5-12400 for the 12600KF.

Cooler: peerless assassin or phantom spirit (~£35).

My basket at OcUK:

• 1 x Intel Core i5-12400 2.50GHz (Alder Lake) Socket LGA1700 Processor - Retail (SKU: CP-6AL-IN) = £175.00
• 1 x MSI B760 Gaming Plus WIFI (LGA 1700) DDR5 ATX Motherboard (SKU: MB-37M-MS) = £159.99
• 1 x TeamGroup Vulcan 32GB (2X16GB) DDR5 PC5-44800C36 5600MHz Dual Channel Kit - Black (FLBD532G5600HC36BDC01) (SKU: MY-0BB-TG) = £99.95
• 1 x WD Blue SN580 2TB SSD NVME M.2 2280 PCIe Gen4 Solid State Drive (SKU: STO-WDC-00541) = £119.99
• 1 x Lian Li Lancool 216 Mid-tower PC case - Black (SKU: CA-7BG-LL) = £89.99
• 1 x SAPPHIRE PULSE AMD Radeon™ RX 7800 XT Gaming Graphics Card with 16GB GDDR6, AMD RDNA™ 3 architecture (SKU: GRA-SPR-00764) = £449.98
• 1 x Seasonic Focus GX-850 850W 80+ Gold Modular Power Supply (SKU: CA-06T-SS) = £119.99

Total: £1,226.88 (includes delivery: £11.98)​

You could look at a 4070 or 4070 Super too, if you prefer nvidia, maybe a 4070 Ti depending on the price.

If he likes playing modded Skylines I'd consider getting a 64GB or 96GB kit right off the bat, because DDR5 systems so far are not fans of running 4 sticks.

 

[tamzzy]

i wouldn't even bother considering the intel 12600k over the amd ryzen 7600 as the 7600 is vastly superior, whilst offering ongoing platform upgradeability and lower power consumption
full comparison: https://www.techspot.com/review/2563-best-value-gaming-cpu/

tl;dr picture:

Spoiler: picture - clickies here

 

[Tetras]

and lower power consumption

For games? I didn't think they were that different.

 

[tamzzy]

For games? I didn't think they were that different.

performance per watt

 

[Gray2233]

i wouldn't even bother considering the intel 12600k over the amd ryzen 7600 as the 7600 is vastly superior, whilst offering ongoing platform upgradeability and lower power consumption
full comparison: https://www.techspot.com/review/2563-best-value-gaming-cpu/

tl;dr picture:

Spoiler: picture - clickies here

Shocking proposition for a dead socket tbh, AM5 could offer massive uplift by the time it's EoL, whenever that ends up being given we're still getting new releases for AM4 that launched in 2016/2017.

 

[tamzzy]

Shocking proposition for a dead socket tbh, AM5 could offer massive uplift by the time it's EoL, whenever that ends up being given we're still getting new releases for AM4 that launched in 2016/2017.

there are a few instances i would consider the intel 12/13/14th gen an appropriate build, a pure gaming machine with an eye for value is currently not one of those instances

 

[Craig_d1]

i wouldn't even bother considering the intel 12600k over the amd ryzen 7600 as the 7600 is vastly superior, whilst offering ongoing platform upgradeability and lower power consumption
full comparison: https://www.techspot.com/review/2563-best-value-gaming-cpu/

might have to review the cost per frame in that...$250 for 6000C30 ram ...oh, how times have changed....and talking of 1% lows @Gray2233, notice how the 7600x 1% lows are higher than the 5800x3d's...sorry, couldn't resist as we were just talking about it. I lke your build though...
going with that, found the asus tuf b650-e gaming wifi on offer away for £155, and same place offering adata xpg S70 blade 2tb gen 4 ssd for £115 (7400/6800 read/write)...you could also go for the 6000C30 teamgroup ram that ocuk sell for £109...as it's not x3d cpu, tighter timing will help a little

 

[Gray2233]

might have to review the cost per frame in that...$250 for 6000C30 ram ...oh, how times have changed....and talking of 1% lows @Gray2233, notice how the 7600x 1% lows are higher than the 5800x3d's...sorry, couldn't resist as we were just talking about it. I lke your build though...
going with that, found the asus tuf b650-e gaming wifi on offer away for £155, and same place offering adata xpg S70 blade 2tb gen 4 ssd for £115 (7400/6800 read/write)...you could also go for the 6000C30 teamgroup ram that ocuk sell for £109...as it's not x3d cpu, tighter timing will help a little

The 7600 and 5800X3D perform extremely similarly when you average things out. It's why I generally advise entry level AM5 to most people looking at spending around £300 to upgrade while on AM4. That said, the situations where the extra cache are beneficial can see huge gains in favour of anything X3D.

It's all about being informed regarding your use case/needs and buying appropriately.

 

[Tetras]

performance per watt

I haven't seen lots of data, so idk, but from what I've seen, 12th gen CPUs are pretty good with average GPUs, since they can change their power behaviour just as effectively as Zen 4, which is an ability that 13th/14th gen CPUs (at least the K versions) seem to have lost.

Like, if you have a game where they're only modestly utilised, Zen 4 can go down to 30-40 watts and the 12th gen CPU can do the same, but a 13th-14th gen K CPU will still be chugging 80 odd. I don't know if that's due to the turbo volts or what. It might be different with higher-end 12th gen K CPUs, but I think they're still better than the later ones. The non-Ks are even better, e.g. i5-12400 with a crap GPU it just pooters along @ ~20 watts.

I think the FPS per watt would be better with Zen 4 in something CPU-bound that has a fast GPU like a 4090, e.g. esports, but it'd probably be marginal with a midrange GPU.

a pure gaming machine with an eye for value is currently not one of those instances

The i3-12100F (~£80) or 12600KF (@ £150 odd) still meet that test for me, but that's about it. The 12600KF is fast enough for most GPUs that you won't notice the difference between that and a 7500F/7600. I do agree the saving is very small though, to then be stuck on what is an inferior platform at this point. If the 7600 drops to £150 too, then that's a slam dunk for AMD.

 

[tamzzy]

The 12600KF is fast enough for most GPUs that you won't notice the difference between that and a 7500F/7600. I do agree the saving is very small though, to then be stuck on what is an inferior platform at this point. If the 7600 drops to £150 too, then that's a slam dunk for AMD.

platform cost (ie cpu + mobo + ram) for both are so similar there's no reason not to opt for the ryzen

 

[Pearcy93]

Thanks so much for the feedback guys - has really helped.

Had a v.busy week at work and just looking through it all now. Think I am going b650-e with a Ryzen 5 7600...

Personally, I have never spent more than about £300 on a graphics card... Are there any less expensive GPU's that would do a decent enough job? - what are the Radeon 7600's like? - are they the best at that price point?

 

[Pearcy93]

Or a 12GB RTX3060 or TI perhaps?

 

[Gray2233]

Thanks so much for the feedback guys - has really helped.

Had a v.busy week at work and just looking through it all now. Think I am going b650-e with a Ryzen 5 7600...

Personally, I have never spent more than about £300 on a graphics card... Are there any less expensive GPU's that would do a decent enough job? - what are the Radeon 7600's like? - are they the best at that price point?

Things have heavily changed in that department, GPU prices are all way higher than they have any right to be at this point.

Don't look at individual component price, focus on your overall budget and the intended purposes of the system. For £1200-ish on a gaming rig £450-550 is the norm for a GPU, the absolute cheapest I'd consider for a gaming rig unless desperate would be £300 on a 6750XT or £370 on an 6800 (you can get the XFX Speedster QICK and SWFT models for either). Ultimately, look at some benchmarks and see what best fits your needs, but unless on an extreme budget I'd never consider a 6600 or 7600 tier GPU. I wouldn't consider any of the 3060's either, the vanilla isn't the fastest GPU and the Ti is VRAM limited, do not invest in an 8gb GPU when you have a healthy budget.

 

[Pearcy93]

I could do with saving some cash! - might need to be less than £1200 budget

Also, any stand out performers in the cost vs performance for CPU air coolers these days? - I won't be overclocking...

 

[Pearcy93]

(Basically, on the overall cost I need to factor in Windows 11 and a separate 2TB sata storage drive etc.)

 

[tamzzy]

(Basically, on the overall cost I need to factor in Windows 11 and a separate 2TB sata storage drive etc.)

Windows 11 can be had for a fiver if you know where to look.

 

[Gray2233]

I could do with saving some cash! - might need to be less than £1200 budget

Also, any stand out performers in the cost vs performance for CPU air coolers these days? - I won't be overclocking...

My basket at OcUK:

• 1 x TeamGroup Vulcan EXPO 32GB (2X16GB) DDR5 PC5-48000C38 6000MHz Dual Channel Kit - Black (FLABD532G6000HC38ADC01) (SKU: MY-0B2-TG) = £99.95
• 1 x be quiet! SYSTEM POWER 10 650W 80 Plus Bronze Power Supply (SKU: CA-14V-BQ) = £64.99
• 1 x Asus Prime B650M-A WIFI II (Socket AM5) DDR5 Micro-ATX Motherboard (SKU: MB-6K6-AS) = £130.00
• 1 x KIOXIA EXCERIA G2 1TB SSD NVME M.2 2280 Solid State Drive (SKU: STO-TSH-00981) = £58.99
• 1 x Kolink Citadel Mesh RGB Micro-ATX Case - White (SKU: CA-05Y-KK) = £52.99
• 1 x AMD Ryzen 5 7600 Six Core 5.10GHz (Socket AM5) Processor - Retail (SKU: CP-3DW-AM) = £182.99

Total: £589.91 (includes delivery: £0.00)​

Google the "XFX AMD Radeon RX 6800 Speedster SWFT 319 Graphics Card for Gaming - 16GB" for £370.

As mentioned by Tamzzy, W11 can be had for a fiver or alternatively you can run it without a licence, you'll have to deal with a watermark and lose some minor functionality but nothing major.

The CPU comes with an HSF, but you could spend £15 on a Thermalright Assassin King which would be ample and do a better job.

PS: Be sure to make sure the card fits the case, it's a good size.