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New kit (been out of the loop)

chakib

chakib

chakib

Associate
Joined
1 Dec 2008
Posts
78
Hello, Hopefully this will be a snappy question to clarify some things for me.

I have been asked to upgrade a system for a friend who is on a tight budget.
As are most people on this fine forum, am relatively tech happy and willing to learn.

The PC I'm upgrading is a P4 OC'd to 3.ghz. (I cannot believe we used to use that)
I was considering some good Intel kit then happened to see the AMD line up, which blew my mind. the Athlon II 425 is fantastic, but then I found a Phenom II 710 for £70!

The whole pricing overlap is confusing me greatly, as are the comparisons being thrown about. L2 cache on phenoms better then the Athlons, but the Althlons still performing!

The computer will be taxed quite a lot, Rendering, Multiple Screens with a fair few progs open, photoshop, After effects etc etc. Monetary struggle does not allow for anything more expensive I'm afraid.

Motherboard I will advise to purchase is the Asus M4A785D-M Pro

Any advise of which CPU he should Invest in? Budget is quite tight I'm afraid.

Thanks.
 
for rendering he wants a quad core setup, and personaly i would go for intel.

completely depends on the budget that determins what processor your get.
 
Check out the Core i3 series they seem okay value and offer nice performance, you can also pickup a board with the H55 chipset which have graphics built in.
 
Trunks9486 said:
What is your budget exactly? And what do you need? Both motherboard and CPU and RAM? Does he have everything else?
Click to expand...

Budget is around £130 max. He's got 4gb ddr2 so ram and everything else, so that's all good; it's just the processing power and motherboard that's sub par.
 
Will he be overclocking the CPU or try to unlock extra cores?

Given the info i have and stock options then the Athlon X3s are probably the best option.

If you shop around you could get the Athlon X4, it has lower frequency but an extra core, if is going to overclock then this wont matter as the X4 should be fine until 3.4-3.6GHz. On the other hand the X3 could potentially unlock to an X4!

Safest bet with no overclocking is the X3 though. The mobo you mentioned is great. Shop around on best prices and your friend should be happy! Each core on the Athlon is better than the one pentium 4 core he has right now!
 
Trunks9486 said:
Will he be overclocking the CPU or try to unlock extra cores?

Given the info i have and stock options then the Athlon X3s are probably the best option.

If you shop around you could get the Athlon X4, it has lower frequency but an extra core, if is going to overclock then this wont matter as the X4 should be fine until 3.4-3.6GHz. On the other hand the X3 could potentially unlock to an X4!

Safest bet with no overclocking is the X3 though. The mobo you mentioned is great. Shop around on best prices and your friend should be happy! Each core on the Athlon is better than the one pentium 4 core he has right now!
Click to expand...

I'll be messing about with it for sure. Overclocking and maybe even 4th core unlock.

I found a Phenom II 710 for £70. Does that make better sense then the Athlon considering the 6mb cache?
 
70 for the Phenom Tri-Core is not bad. However it is also clocked 300Mhz lower. At stock settings i would guess that they would trade blows depending on the application and whether L3 matters to it!

I would personally go for the Phenom. May unlock and could overclock well. However if you are buying used then there is a very very high chance that it will not unlock!

Overally, both are good choices so you cant really go wrong.
 
Well, i did suggest going for the the Phenom already.

It seems to perform better overally at stock. And the L3 helps when you go on to voerclock the processor. They are also good gaming processors compares to the L3-less Athlons.

If they are the same price then they make more sense.

Bad side is that they consume more power i think. Cant win em all.

Let us know what happens (if it unlocks and how far it overclocks)!
 
Trunks9486 said:
Well, i did suggest going for the the Phenom already.

It seems to perform better overally at stock. And the L3 helps when you go on to voerclock the processor. They are also good gaming processors compares to the L3-less Athlons.

If they are the same price then they make more sense.

Bad side is that they consume more power i think. Cant win em all.

Let us know what happens (if it unlocks and how far it overclocks)!
Click to expand...

Yeah I was leaning more towards what you recommended. Just the price battle in my head was raging! but going for the phenom for sure.

will post up results as soon as I get my hands dirty.
 
chakib said:
Any input?
Click to expand...

AMD Phenom II X3 710 [Deneb]
CP-239-AM_400.jpg

2.6GHz (13x200) 95w (6MB L3)


AMD Athlon II X3 425 [Propus]
CP-248-AM_400.jpg

2.7GHz (13.5x200) 95W

Hello chakib,

I'm interested to know your thoughts . . . obviously we cannot discuss prices too much but if you wouldn't mind could you tell me what is the Premium you are paying for the 710 over the 425?

It's a nice pick list you came up with there, I had the PhIIX2 550 and AIIX3 425 in mine! ;) . . . but I'm curious what is appealing about that particular Deneb to you? . . . I thought most people that couldn't resist a bit of L3-Cache would have gone for a *** Black-Edition *** chip with fully unlocked Multi?

I'm not certain yet of this but I have a feeling 100MHz of processor frequency is worth maybe 1MB-2MB of level 3 cache so that little bit of extra processing frequency on the AIIX3 425 is not to be sniffed at for people running things at stock . . .of course if your overclocking then it's a fairly mOOt point but thought I'd clarify.

There is also the possibility that the IMC featured on the Propus Die has been reworked a little compared to the older Deneb chips . . . presumably to help it smooth over the missing L3 cache and keep it a competitive part . . . the cache was obviously costing a lot and designing a new core without it was a smart move by AMD to bring Tri-Core & Quad-Core tech to an unfeasibly low price point! :eek:

I'm using the AIIX3 425 in my personal machine and it's doing the business, after 3 years of using various Intel® Core™2 platforms it's made a refreshing change! ;)

Look forward to your feedback! :cool:
 
Ah, Wayne and his Athlon IIs:D, good cpus and cheap too. If the op's mate is gonna run multi apps at the same time, I'd recommend the PII 720BE X3, or PII 550BE X2, both multilier unlocked so overclocking is a breeze, 720BE is a tri-core so will help with the multi apps, the 550BE will overclock as far the 720BE and theres the possibility that it'll unlock one or both of the disabled cores with the right mobo bios and is a bit cheaper.
Both of these cpus are exceptional performers for the money and have been steadily proving themselves as exceptionally good all round performers, I've just made the switch meself from intel C2D to the PII 720 BE X3:) and I'm well happy with the results.
 
Ahh Big.Wayne finally replies!

To be honest, most of the posts I have been reading on AMD have been by you.

This computer will be used for most of the Adobe suit, Ripping, trans coding, some render with with maya, a zillion web tabs and some gaming (COD4, L4D2, GTR, Bioshock, etc etc)
So, what appeals to me about the PII 710 is the balance and possibilities is opens up. L3 cache when it is needed, and raw processing power then the MHZ are needed (overclocked ). The appeal of unlocking the fourth core is also incredibly tempting, However, the chip I found on sale for £70 is a newer 0609 chip and is totally locked. As for the reasoning behind the regular and not black edition is I don't mind overclocking the hard way, the unlocked multipliers Don't particularly tempt me (at the current time) and mainly..pricing..

anyway, the AII 425 was my second choice to be honest, but the prices suddenly seem to ave gone up to near phenom territory. From the many reviews I have read, that extra 100Mhz seems to have the effect of competing with the L3 cache of the PII. Again, I would love to tincker and see If I can unlock the fourth core with either CPU.

What do you think? will I lose any sleep If I don't plug a PII in there? Or will a AII satisfy the needs?
 
The unlocked multis didn't really tempt either until I got a cpu with them unlocked. It really takes a lot of the variables out of the equation and you can save a bit of money 'cos the memory speed remains at stock, you don't need faster ram to match the new FSB.;)
One thing to watch is the L2 cache, its only 512kb per core and there is no L3 and I read a review somewhere about the AII X4 cpus were quite bad performers unless running only certain apps (if I can locate the aricle I'll post a link) so I'd assume the AII X3 cpu would suffer the same way.
If the pc is gonna be taxed as you say, I'll stick by my recomendation and go with the PII 720BE X3, to get the guaranteed third core operation

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/AMD/Athlon_II_X3_425/13.html

Heres a link to a review and at the end its states the AII X3 does not scale well when overclocked.

Still a good cpu though, but still reckon the PII 720BE X3 is the one to go for:)
 
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chakib said:
What do you think? will I lose any sleep If I don't plug a PII in there? Or will a AII satisfy the needs?
Click to expand...
Thanks for the insights chakib :)

I think you know what's best for you and your particular needs. . . I do think the PhII chips look quite appealing and as you mentioned the AIIX3 seems to be moving up in price so the premium is now what? . . . about £15-£20 quid? . . . that is a good chunk towards a nice 3rd party Premium heatsink which would be a good match with an overclocked chip, the stock HSF will allow a reasonable overlock but these chips do react well to lower temps so it may be worth considering the budget for some extra cooling if you intend to give it a big overclock! :D

The Asus M4A785D-M Pro motherboard you suggested is a great bit of kit @ £60 . . . so much cool technology crammed into such a dinky little uATX mobo!


"This board will give your DDR2 a good place to live!"

It seems that people shopping for a good value processor kinda start looking at the lowest priced chips and slowly convince themselves into spending a little extra "Oh I could just have that extra core for a tenner" and "Yeah just another £15 for the 6MB L3 cache" and "Hmmm just another £7.00 and it's got an unlocked CPU multi" etc etc . . . . before you know it you will have talked yourself into buying a PhII X4 965 heh! :p

I uses to do the same thing, start with a rough set budget then slowly but surely *Bulk Up* on the features and blow the budget! :o . . . . now I am going the other way trying to whittle away any features that are not gonna benefit me personally and save some cash without sacrificing too much.

I'm currently looking at the uBer low end to see what little gems are hiding as not everyone can afford £100-£120 for a CPU/Mobo combo . . . the processor is an AMD Sempron 140 @ £25 with is a Regor Athlon II X2 with one core disabled, known as Sargas . . . so a 2.7GHz mono-core 45w TDP chip that can overclock quite well and if your lucky unlock back to a a dual core . . .

Not had much luck finding a £25-£35 motherboard yet that offers a nice IGP with HDMI but I'm sure there are one or two out there that will match up nicely for a £60 Pocket-Rocket combo!

With this is mind you seem like a big spender looking at an £80 processor alone! ;)

AMD Sempron 140 2.70 GHz Review

AMD Athlon II X2 240 2.80 GHz Review

Both of those chip linked above look super value for money, especially the Sempron 140 *if* it unlocks back into an AIIX2 . . .

I think what I'm saying is, if there is such a thing as *HYPER*-mavity that pulls us towards expensive hardware then all you need to do is about-turn and instead of comparing the product you are thinking of buying with the more expensive models . . . instead look closer at the cheaper products and compare them instead . . . for the money the AIIX2 look like a steal @ £45 but having owned various dual cores since 2006 the AIIX3 & PhIIX3 had their own special appeal to me . . . I personally opted for the Rana instead of the Heka down to cost . . . I couldn't let myself pay almost *double* for a feature I have not been able to notice in the real world . . . no doubt it's there in the benches but it's a lot harder to notice in real life usage IMO . . . if your in doubt then you gonna have to spend the extra just-in-case :p

I've got this new game waiting to be played, just getting some prime testin done them I'm off into another world of fantasy! :cool:

Dragon Age Origins

"Get In The Game!"
 
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