New kitchen extension - a few questions and any comments

[Hodders]

Right then, we are having a kitchen extension put on.

First of all what we are starting with: Decking is obviously the outside space we are going to include in the new space. Kitchen and dining are separated by a wall which we will be getting rid of.

What we will end up with. Kitchen, dining and decking will all be one room with steels replacing the removed walls. Luckily we have excellent ceiling heights so steels although chunky won't be too intrusive.

Kitchen plan (run with sink goes along the "north" wall of the dining room. The rightmost tall unit is covering up one of the doors.

View of the other kitchen run. The far wall below has the door (not shown) that leads into the garden.

Services:
Purple is proposed extraction route for hob (about 4m)

Green is sink/dishwasher drain. This will run at +50cm along the wall until it goes under the floor to run about 3m to the drain which is just outside the back door. Keeping the run at a minimum to ensure enough fall over the distance.

Here are the questions:

• Integrated fridge/freezer - door-on-door or sliding door. Which is better/more durable?
  
  
• The induction hob on the island will have an integrated extractor. The builder is suggesting to use the standard re-circulation extraction which then vents by the kick-board. I really like the idea of extracting outside, but this would mean a run of ducting about 4m long under the floor to vent outside. Builders concerns are that the run is too long and it will run the risk of the concrete cracking where it is poorly supported by the ducting.
  
  
• Appliances - I'm coming from a gas hob. I love having a knob for each burner and hate the endless button pushing to control induction hobs.
  
  
• I really like the look of this Elica hob but also love the idea of cleaning a flat piece of glass without knobs so maybe this Neff hob with magnetic knob is the answer. Does anybody have any opinions or experience with extracting hobs or the brands Elica of Neff?
  
  
• What should we thinking about know, plus what are you really glad you did do or wish you had done when fitting your kitchen.
  
  
• I'm going to be fitting it - so what tools other than the usual active DIY stuff should I get? I'm guessing a good mitre/bevel cross cut saw and a laser level are essential. I've already got a router/drills/jigsaws etc etc.

Cheers all!

 

[booyaka]

First thing I would say - whilst you may be keen / handy DIY person - DON'T fit the kitchen yourself.

Get a fitter / joiner to do it. Honestly, will save you weeks of hassle and time. It's just not worth it. There are loads of things to consider such as the worktop cutting/fitting which if not done properly can look terrible. Doors not lining up etc. Silly little tools that you might not have that a fitter/joiner will.

If you have a full time job and can do a few hours at night / weekends etc - it will take a long time. Fitter / joiner will be a few days depending on requirement for electricals/gas fitting etc.

I paid around £1800 for fitting of a large kitchen and that included the gas engineer for the hob and a few sockets getting moved by electrician.

Second - never personally heard of venting/ducting the hob under the floor.... Sounds like a bad idea - hot air/steam/smells under the floor.

Gas always for me hob wise but that's a personal thing.

 

[Hodders]

First thing I would say - whilst you may be keen / handy DIY person - DON'T fit the kitchen yourself.

Get a fitter / joiner to do it. Honestly, will save you weeks of hassle and time. It's just not worth it. There are loads of things to consider such as the worktop cutting/fitting which if not done properly can look terrible. Doors not lining up etc. Silly little tools that you might not have that a fitter/joiner will.

If you have a full time job and can do a few hours at night / weekends etc - it will take a long time. Fitter / joiner will be a few days depending on requirement for electricals/gas fitting etc.

I paid around £1800 for fitting of a large kitchen and that included the gas engineer for the hob and a few sockets getting moved by electrician.

Second - never personally heard of venting/ducting the hob under the floor.... Sounds like a bad idea - hot air/steam/smells under the floor.

Gas always for me hob wise but that's a personal thing.

All good points - I maybe should have been clearer on some....

Venting under floor - should have said vented via ducting that would be run before the concrete is laid. It would then come out with a grille on the external wall. Basically - is 4m too far for effective venting - I'm sort of guessing it is on the maximum end - plus will the concrete be at risk of cracking above the ducting due to flex?

I'm my own boss so can take 2 weeks off to dedicate to it. The plan is that I fit the units, then the quartz worktops are templated and fitted by the supplier. The wooden "bar" on the island will be supplied by the company I own and run so will be perfect to the last mm and will be templated after the island is finished.

There won't be any gas and an electrician will be used to fit a new fuse board (we will need more space for things like the induction hob and double oven spurs) and run the correct cabling for the appliances.

I fitted our last kitchen and got on OK - but I agree totally - stuff like fitting worktops, cutting out for sinks/hobs etc. Leave that to them!

 

[tamzzy]

Integrated fridge/freezer - door-on-door or sliding door. Which is better/more durable?

As someone with an integrated fridge freezer...don't do it. The internal capacity is much lower than a standalone one.

 

[200sols]

First thing I would say - whilst you may be keen / handy DIY person - DON'T fit the kitchen yourself.

Get a fitter / joiner to do it. Honestly, will save you weeks of hassle and time. It's just not worth it. There are loads of things to consider such as the worktop cutting/fitting which if not done properly can look terrible. Doors not lining up etc. Silly little tools that you might not have that a fitter/joiner will.

If you have a full time job and can do a few hours at night / weekends etc - it will take a long time. Fitter / joiner will be a few days depending on requirement for electricals/gas fitting etc.

I paid around £1800 for fitting of a large kitchen and that included the gas engineer for the hob and a few sockets getting moved by electrician.

Second - never personally heard of venting/ducting the hob under the floor.... Sounds like a bad idea - hot air/steam/smells under the floor.

Gas always for me hob wise but that's a personal thing.

I disagree about not DIYing it. Worktops will be laser templated and fitted by specialists anyway and that is honestly the hardest part of it.

 

[El Jimben]

As someone with an integrated fridge freezer...don't do it. The internal capacity is much lower than a standalone one.

I concur, I hate ours.

 

[jaybee]

Here are the questions:

• Integrated fridge/freezer - door-on-door or sliding door. Which is better/more durable?
  
  
• The induction hob on the island will have an integrated extractor. The builder is suggesting to use the standard re-circulation extraction which then vents by the kick-board. I really like the idea of extracting outside, but this would mean a run of ducting about 4m long under the floor to vent outside. Builders concerns are that the run is too long and it will run the risk of the concrete cracking where it is poorly supported by the ducting.
  
  
• Appliances - I'm coming from a gas hob. I love having a knob for each burner and hate the endless button pushing to control induction hobs.
  
  
• I really like the look of this Elica hob but also love the idea of cleaning a flat piece of glass without knobs so maybe this Neff hob with magnetic knob is the answer. Does anybody have any opinions or experience with extracting hobs or the brands Elica of Neff?
  
  
• What should we thinking about know, plus what are you really glad you did do or wish you had done when fitting your kitchen.
  
  
• I'm going to be fitting it - so what tools other than the usual active DIY stuff should I get? I'm guessing a good mitre/bevel cross cut saw and a laser level are essential. I've already got a router/drills/jigsaws etc etc.

- I'd pay any premium and suffer any loss of capacity to have all built in appliances including fridge/freezer just on the basis that the kitchen just looks so much nicer.

- I hate our over head extractor fan on the basis it's weak, and does **** all, apart from open wounds on my forehead. It's the type that "vents" into the kitchen through filters. If I could find a way to vent to outside properly in a future build, I'd do it.

- I also prefer gas hobs but yeah they are annoying to clean and they look so dirty very quickly. Cooking without gas would end up winding me up though due to the lag in controls.

- DIY fitting I personally think is really not that hard. When I saw what a pro fitter did in one of our old rental houses, I was shocked at how little was involved. If you are cutting hardwood, expensive worktop, I'd probably get one of those track saws to ensure straight cut.

 

[tom_nieto]

Induction is 100% the way to go. More efficient, quicker to heat up and way way easier to clean. The Neff magnetic puck is a bit of a faff though. My folks have one and it takes a bit of getting used to, but overall quite a nifty design. Slightly less of the usual press the button, didn’t work, press the button again, activate the adjacent button because your finger is wet from washing hands etc.

Personally I hate hobs and sinks on kitchen islands, but appreciate space might be at a premium here. Extractors are usually rubbish whatever you go for sadly.

Unless you can fit an American style fridge with a water dispenser, always go with built in imo.

I really wish we had fitted a boiling water tap, but slightly ran out of cash at the time.

Good luck, it looks like a brilliant extension and you’ll have an amazing space at the end of it.

 

[R.C.Anderson]

My main points:

DIY fit is perfectly doable if you have reasonable skills. I DIY fit my entire kitchen (I had someone install a steel & pull a wall out, and someone check & sign-off the new electrics, but everything else I took back to brick & installed myself) The kitchen fitment bit took a couple of weekends, then the worktop another weekend from memory:

Worktop space - IMO you have nowhere near enough worktop space, with too many little bits seperated out. If this works for you, then fine, but I personally would hate it. If it was me, I'd probably put the oven & (I assume) fridge/freezer you have either side of your sink over in the 2nd kitchen run (or continue round the corner to where the chair is in the image), and have a large worktop space behind the island.
Induction hobs - I still prefer the speed & ease of operating a gas hob, but I don't think I'd ever go back from induction, it cooks at least as well, and it so much easier to keep clean & tidy.
Integrated fridge/freezer - IMO they're just not big enough, unless you have a secondary fridge/freezer somewhere else. As you can see in the picture, we had a large american fridge/freezer, and even then we could have done with more space (mainly freezer), but now we've moved, we have a standard fridge/freezer in the kitchen (left with the house & fits the space), and the american is in the garage for extra space & it works for us. I don't think I'd design a new kitchen now without space for an american fridge/freezer.
Extractor - I'd always go for extracting to outside, recirculating are a PITA IMO, they're never as good, and you've got to replace the carbon filter regularly for them to stay somewhat effective. This is one of the main reasons I didn't put my hob in the island - So the extrator could be above the hob & be vented to outside. I don't see 4m being much of an issue, as long as it's in suitably sized ducting, with minimal bends. If it's going to go into the concrete floor, the slab will just need to be thick enough, with enough above & below to not crack, this should be somthing calculated, it shouldn't be done off a builder just saying they're not sure if it'll be OK. I was really happy with our extractor, it did a good job, but I spent a lot of time looking through the tech sheets for the extractors available to choose one with a good cfm.

 

[Hodders]

Building work has started. So far foundations dug and concrete down. Next week we've got the new exterior walls being started and the pillars for each end of the long steel.

We're going to have to settle for recirculation on the hob. The minimum distance for under floor extraction would be about 6 meters so right at the end of what seems feasible. Plus due to floor levels the builder is concerned the screed won't get enough support from the flexible pipe and might crack.

Moving onto fitting. I'm definitely doing it myself. Not touching first fix but more than happy to do a bit of plumbing and electrics with inspection and sign off by someone qualified.

Now the fun bit. TOOLS:

I've got jigsaw/router/drills/levels etc. but thinking of getting a decent track saw and laser level plus some decent hole cutters.

Any other suggestions?

 

[b0rn2sk8]

Can’t go wrong with a Festool track saw (other than it emptying your bank account), absolute units. Otherwise the offerings from the major tool brands are all good- just watch out for tools which need brand specific track. IIRC you need dewalt track with the dealt saw where as most others run on ‘Festool track’ which you can buy cheap versions of by the likes of Evolution.

Laser level - go green IMO, the latest units which take rechargeable tool batteries are nice otherwise get a Chinese special and a lot of AA’s.

Hole saws are a much of a muchness unless you spend big money. Cutting laminated chipboard will blunt them regardless so I’d just get what you need when you need it and not worry about it.

 

[R.C.Anderson]

yea, green laser is pretty much a must have (and they're far better than red). I got a huepar one, works really well & a lot cheaper than the big brands.

I used a table saw a few times too, but you'll probably be fine with just a track saw.
A few good clamps too, to hold the cabinets together as you're fiing them together.
A pair of waterpump plies I found very helpful for winding the cabinet legs up/down when there's weight on them (especially the rear ones).
I used a biscuit cutter a few times too, once where I had to modify a cabinet to add in extra boxing around the extractor exhaust, and another time to join the worktop (although with standard laminate, this isn't needed)

Other than that, I can't think of much more specific.

 

[DXP55]

I can't add much to that except the Induction hob.
We love them and also wouldn't go back to other type hobs.
I goofed with the one we have now - went from heat control for each hob ring and got one you have to select and click the hob ring you want then use the one and only heating temp control.
It is a right PITA.

 

[jpaul]

without gas supply, obviously no choice but induction - I'd check with manufacturer that induction hob has high frequency pwm control, so won't be pulsing at low frequency,
(personally I'd want to research an induction wok burner - using electricity I've been without ability to wok cook for 5 years now - rip)

equally, sink with multiple bowls also invaluable for scratch cooking, otherwise it's form over function.

 

[#Chri5#]

Building work has started. So far foundations dug and concrete down. Next week we've got the new exterior walls being started and the pillars for each end of the long steel.

We're going to have to settle for recirculation on the hob. The minimum distance for under floor extraction would be about 6 meters so right at the end of what seems feasible. Plus due to floor levels the builder is concerned the screed won't get enough support from the flexible pipe and might crack.

Moving onto fitting. I'm definitely doing it myself. Not touching first fix but more than happy to do a bit of plumbing and electrics with inspection and sign off by someone qualified.

Now the fun bit. TOOLS:

I've got jigsaw/router/drills/levels etc. but thinking of getting a decent track saw and laser level plus some decent hole cutters.

Any other suggestions?

If you're looking at track / plunge saws, Peter Millard has a load of good content on his Ten Minute Workshop YouTube channel looking at some of the cheaper models for those of us who can only dream about Festool. There's another video on track compatibility as well.

FWIW, I got an Einhell plunge saw recently and went for the new Evo ST2800-G2 track with it. I also subsequently purchased the Evo track square. Felt like a right pro' using it all for the first time. Yes, I need to get out more

 

[cokecan]

On the fridge/freezer thing, have you considered a full height integrated fridge and a separate full height integrated freezer? We went this option after slumming it with a single fridge/freezer combo for many years and it's honestly glorious. I don't know without checking but I'd guess there may even be a bit more space in them combined than what you'd get in your standard American style fridge freezer.

 

[Hodders]

That's a great shout. We're planning on putting our current American f/f in the garage as backup. Did think about doing what you suggested but just didn't really have the space.

 

[Coran]

Are you getting underfloor heating put in? That’s one thing that will be incredibly difficult to retrofit or upgrade later! Great opportunity now if you’re screeding etc.

 

[Semple]

As someone with an integrated fridge freezer...don't do it. The internal capacity is much lower than a standalone one.

Problem is the non-integrated ones look absolute tatt. If you're dropping 10 grand + on a kitchen you don't really want to then be looking at a ginormous white/stainless steel doors.

 

[Semple]

- I also prefer gas hobs but yeah they are annoying to clean and they look so dirty very quickly. Cooking without gas would end up winding me up though due to the lag in controls.

Have you had a chance to use an induction job? There's definitely no lag in temperature control - it's as instant as gas. If anything the boost function for boiling water I find significantly quicker than gas.