New to Overclocking. Is this a good overclock? Should I try and increase it?

[Chris Nahhas]

Hi. This is my first post.

I'm new to overclocking, and overclocked my CPU (an i7 4790k) for the first time today using Asus' AI Suite.

I'm wondering if this is a good overclock and whether I should try and increase it manually.

It kind of knocked my socks off when I saw it go to 5GHz but that's over two cores?

Three cores and above and it's 4.5GHz.

I'm not really sure if this is a good overclock or not as I set it to overclock per core rather than keeping them synchronised.

I'm wondering if I should try and push it a little further?

I'm using a budget motherboard. It's an Asus Z97-C

 

[Chris Nahhas]

What cooler you have?

Akasa Medusa

With three 140mm Akasa Vipers front, middle and rear.

Edit: I should probably say it's not officially compatible with LGA 1150 but with some experimentation and persistence I managed to get it seated.

 

[Chris Nahhas]

5ghz on that power hungry CPU is going to be too much.
If it works fine, but i foresee a lot of crashes, due to either power limitation on the motherboard, or thermal on the CPU if not delided.

Temps are okay, I'm an air cooling otaku from back in the day and even rocked Sanyo Denki's in my time; I have a host of burned out fan controllers to show for it.

As for power, I guess it remains to be seen. You don't think my current mobo can support it?

I was thinking of upgrading to a Z97-Pro Gamer, if the CPU was worth it. Kind of why I'm seeking advice on whether it's a good overclock.

What do you think?

It's a separate/individual core overclock rather than synchronised. Are those readings good for a separate/individual core overclock?

 

[Chris Nahhas]

Sure. Try to push the synchronized to 4.6-4.7. I believe it should take it, if you just run games and not Prime

Thanks. I was planning on avoiding stress testing. I almost ran the automatic overclock without the test RAM box checked because I didn't want stress testing hamstringing the overclock.

Do you know what the advantage is in overclocking the cores separately? I'm thinking it might be better if I re-run the OC with it set to synchronised the cores but I've nothing to base the decision on. I don't really have any idea what the difference is. :/

EDIT: Oops, sorry, typo. Meant "Do you know what the advantage is in overclocking the cores separately?"

 

[Chris Nahhas]

Not much, and more likely prone to crashing.

Maybe, I don't really know. It was recommended by the Asus representative I watched demonstrating it. It's good to have a 5 GHz boost also, although a higher consistent overclock across all four cores is probably more effective on aggregate? I'd have to do the math I guess.

But good to have for single core operations. I was watching it in CPU-Z and it boosts to 5GHz for an instant every few seconds. Feels pretty cool but I guess it's not worth loosing performance over.

Do it manually using llc and offsets. Start at 4.3 all core running stress tests and work you're way up to 4.5 depending on voltages and temps.

Thanks. that's getting to the limit of my understanding. I'm not even sure my motherboard has llc and I'm not sure what offsets are?

I was thinking I'd start with the settings the Auto overclock left me with and work from there. I've read auto overclocking utilities up the voltage to ensure stability so was thinking I could increase a few things from where they are without it necessarily immediately crashing?

 

[Chris Nahhas]

You don't ideally want auto, you want the lowest manual voltage for stability plus a very minor amount extra to ensure it's 100%. Llc and offsets are worth looking into via online searches as its the way to do it on that chip like my own.

Thanks, I will take a look at it, thanks for responding, but right now I've got to get to bed; I'm falling asleep here.

But yeah, I wasn't really thinking of reducing anything but rather keeping the voltage where it is and just increasing the overclock a little.

Anyway, I need to pick this up again tomorrow. Right now I've got to get some sleep.

Thanks again

 

[Chris Nahhas]

I've just seen your screen shot but am not familiar with ai suite. 1.37v is far too high though with your cooling setup, that's if it's actually using that voltage. Start at 4.3 all core as its virtually guaranteed with 1.23v. Use offsets to achieve this with a low level of llc in the bios if it's possible.

As an example, my board almost undervolts so at 4.3 with low level llc I have to add voltage via offset. This results in a load voltage that never goes beyond 1.186 iirc. Keeps temps nice and low on a fairly basic cooler.

Thanks, I think I need to find a tutorial or a glossary for the terminology. I'm new to CPU overclocking. I think to start with I'll try and decode the overclocking options in my BIOS.

 

[Chris Nahhas]

You don't ideally want to go beyond 1.3v with your cooling setup for longevity/risk, especially with a cheaper mobo as well. I'd probably stop 1.25-1.275 max.

I took a look at my BIOS and to be honest it's confusing the hell out of me; I mean I just don't have any real understanding of what any of the overclocking options actually mean?

I have offsets all set to + but I don't have an LLC option.

I think I'm going to have to do a lot more research before I'm actually going to be able to configure this thing manually.

As for the voltage, it's just set to auto and there is an "Extreme Over-voltage" option that's set to disabled.

The temps look fine for the moment and should be okay through the winter; my cooler is very efficient and it's being managed by the motherboard, but it does look like a closed loop wouldn't be a bad investment.

To be honest I'm not sure where to begin with all of this, I'm actually tempted just to slap a closed loop onto it and call it done. :/

 

[Chris Nahhas]

Can you change all core in bios to 43, leave everything default CPU wise then advise on the voltage and temps under heavy load stress test? Run for a minimum of 10 minutes to get an idea on temps. Llc might not even be needed. I wouldn't use any kind of programme for an oc. Also, pointless going w/c on an older setup imo, even more so with a cheaper mobo.

Just to answer your original question, 4.5 all core with 1.37 is terrible, and probably long term would kill the CPU on your setup

Thanks Re. my original question, I was trying to get a sense of weather my CPU was a good overclocker and whether it was worth trying to tweak the the OC.

I'm aware of electromigration, I was actually thinking of just sacrificing some of the lifespan of my CPU for the extra performance boost. The plan is to have this CPU in a dedicated gaming rig so that it's not running 24/7

I'm using Asus's AI Suite 3 and it basically alters the BIOS settings form within Windows so that I don't have to re-boot as often. This is what I've got to play with...

I could do a deep dive on the other options it's giving me in BIOS but for the moment I'm guessing this is probably a good place to start?

I think it might also be giving me more options re offsets than the BIOS actually does, I'll have to take another look.

I set it all to default and set the cores to 43MHz as suggested.

I'd run Prime95 for close to fifteen minutes when I took this screen shot and this is what CPU-Z and Speed Fan were reading:

What's the next step?

Your air cooler is pretty beefy. I wouldn't presume that a basic CLC would outperform it. Maybe for extreme overvolting scenarios but generally CLCs are only as good as high end air coolers, not better. Custom loop could do better but your Medusa will probably be plenty good enough.

Yeah, it's okay, having looked at it I don't think I could get this CPU to maximum temperatures using a stress test without deliberately downgrading the cooling or enabling extreme overvolting in bios and cranking it up past its recommended thresholds. It should be okay even if we get weather as hot as the hottest day in U.K.'s recorded history (35.9C in Cheltenham on July 3 1976 http://home.bt.com/news/uk-news/hottest-on-record-when-was-the-uks-hottest-summer-11364074140808).

 

[Chris Nahhas]

You need to take the screen shot when it's under load 100% at 43. Use hwinfo for readings so you can see the load and temps. In your screenshot above, the CPU isn't under load hence 3997mhz and 1.064v. CPU will fluctuate regularly between base clock and max clock when not under load, this isn't the same thing. You want to get an idea of what voltage your mobo is giving the CPU at an easy overclock to better understand offset required as you push the overclock providing temps are under control. Take the screenshot whilst running Prime after 10-15 minutes.

Hang on I don't understand, that is a shot of of CPU-Z and Speedfan while running Prime 95. If that's not stressing the CPU enough I could use a different stress test?

EDIT: Hang on, I get you. I'll do that now. Thanks.

 

[Chris Nahhas]

Use hwinfo and download from somewhere like guru3d. Upload it to Virustotal.com to check the file for any nasty stuff as ideally you always should. You may have to do 2 screenshots to show all temps/details.

I downloaded hwinfo from the main site. It's telling me there's a newer version but when I click through to update it it just takes me to the same download page.

hwinfo's teling me my multiplier's only set to x40 (?) so I'm going to go into BIOS after posting this and see what the settings actually are.

Personally, I ran my 4770K (very similar chip for OC purposes) at 4.5GHz on 1.28V, with extreme LLC and power phases. No issues at all. Your 4790K will do similar.

One big piece of advice- uninstall AI Suite, and do your OC in the BIOS.

Yeah, I'm thinking of doing that; AI Suite is getting me familiarised with the options I'm going to need to be looking for. If I can find everything in BIOS that AI Suite is referencing I guess I'm good to go, although I think AI Suite might give me a greater level of control over the offset than by BIOS does? I'm not sure that my BIOS is that fully features when it comes to overclocking. For instance I'm pretty sure I don't have access to LLC. I'm going to have to take another look at things in BIOS once I get this posted.

EDIT: Hang on it seems my cores are at 4000MHz instead of 4.3, I'll take a look at BIOS, and run the stress test again.

 

[Chris Nahhas]

Okay, so...I looked at the BIOS and AI Suite hadn't set the cores correctly, so I've set the ratios to 4.3 and am running the stress test again.

I've set the "AI Overclock Tuner" to Manual in BIOS.


That gave me these extra options:

CPU Strap, PLL Selection and Filter PLL (all of which I've left set to Auto because I've not touched the base clock).



I've set "ASUS Multiplier Enhancement" to Disabled, so that it doesn't interfere with the manual overclock.

I set the CPU Core Ration to Synch All Cores and set the core ratio limit to 4.3MHz



The following I haven't touched:

Min & Max CPU Cash Ratio (set to Auto)

Internal PLL Overvoltage (set to Auto)

BCLK Frequency : DRAM Frequency Ratio (set to Auto)

DRAM Frequency (set to Auto)

And I've not touched the Base Clock.



CPU Core Voltage Mode I've set to Offset, but I've not entered a value, it's set to Auto.

Likewise: CPU Core Voltage Offset, CPU System Agent Voltage, CPU Analog I/O, CPU Digital I/O (all are still set to auto)


SVID Support it says needs to be set to Disabled while overclocking, so I've done so. It says it stops the CPU communicating with the external voltage regulator.


The following I've not touched and are all set to Auto:

CPU Input Voltage (VCCIN)
DRAM Voltage
PCH VLX Voltage
PCH Core Voltage.


Those are the primary options it's showing me. There are more options under a couple of menus that open when I click on certain headings. I don't think I have an option to calibrate load lines, unless it's named something different in my BIOS


I'll get the screenshots of the readout for the stress test done and post them. Thanks so much.

 

[Chris Nahhas]

Okay, so, here are the readouts running Prime for over 15 minutes:

So what do I mainly need to be concerned with moving forward?

 

[Chris Nahhas]

Personally, I ran my 4770K (very similar chip for OC purposes) at 4.5GHz on 1.28V, with extreme LLC and power phases. No issues at all. Your 4790K will do similar.

One big piece of advice- uninstall AI Suite, and do your OC in the BIOS.

Also, I don't have an option for LLC. Or at least I don't think I do. I'm going to check in the BIOS again, bump my ratios and look at the secondary menus.

 

[Chris Nahhas]

My old 4790k did. 4.5ghz @1.12volts on all cores with DH15 . Just set multi to 45,ram xmp and punched in cpu volts. Touched nothing else Ran great for 2 years

Sounds cool, I just bumped my multiplier to 4.4MHz and about to run Cinebench & Prime.

 

[Chris Nahhas]

Use hwinfo and download from somewhere like guru3d...

Personally, I ran my 4770K (very similar chip for OC purposes) at 4.5GHz on 1.28V, with extreme LLC and power phases...

My old 4790k did. 4.5ghz @1.12volts on all cores with DH15 . Just set multi to 45,ram xmp and punched in cpu volts. Touched nothing else Ran great for 2 years

Okay, so, I've found options for both Offsets and LLC in my BIOS.

What's the rule of thumb for moving forward?

Should I just set LLC to it's maximum before starting to bump the multiplier, or is there an order and sequence I need to do it in?

What increments should I increase the Offsets by, and when should I increases them?

Also, @Drollic I've just run Cinebench and am running Prime95 at 4.4MHz. Voltage is 1.193 at full load. Should I post screenshots?

Not sure if I should continue bumping the multipliers?

EDIT: I'm assuming the CPU is drawing what it needs for the load? ...and that if I manually set the voltage lower than what it's drawing it would crash? Is that correct? And so, can I use offsets and LLC to get the voltage down and still leave it stable?

 

[Chris Nahhas]

So that voltage is pretty low for 4.4 all core. Try LLC at the lowest possible level above off and see how that changes the voltage. It's the motherboard determining the voltage, not the cpu hence you can overvolt or undervolt. If you want to try and get 4.4 fully stable, try aiming for 1.24 ish under 100% load. I'd be surprised if your PC is stable 100% at 1.193v. I'd expect a crash in Prime after a few hours or another stress test along with some system instability. It is however a good sign you can boot up and even run prime for 10-15 minutes at that voltage. You may be fully stable at say 1.22-1.23. To determine stability you should ideally run a range of tests including prime for 3-5 hours +. Try a range of games etc.

Thanks

What speed do you think I should aim for? Also, should I try adjusting the base clock, or is that just unnecessary?

And is there a sequence for pushing it as high as it'll go? I thought I'd try and get it to run as fast as I could get it but I'm not sure of the steps I need to go through to do that.

Also, I've just been watching a video on Load Line Calibration and voltage spikes (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_XGhpKHWYAg) is it the high voltage spikes that I should be trying to avoid?

 

[Chris Nahhas]

You use voltage and temperatures to tell you how high you can go safely. Start low, work up.

Thanks

And all of the other options? Will they come into play or would the gains be relatively negligible?

 

[Chris Nahhas]

You use voltage and temperatures to tell you how high you can go safely. Start low, work up.

I found a systems reviewer who tests load line calibration and states you should never ever use the "Extreme" setting for load line calibration but he said that Asus boards (I have an Asus) are good for High settings on load line calibration, so I set it to high but it's made no difference to the voltage.

Is it worth trying to use offsets, to see if it'll make any kind of difference?

 

[Chris Nahhas]

If you're not finding it makes much difference I'd leave it on the lowest setting and see how you go. Keep your CPU at 44 and try an offset of +0.030. Let us know the voltage and temperature under 100% load after 10+ minutes of prime. It should be around 1.230v

Okay, sure thing. Should I do that for all of the modules (CPU System Agent Voltage, CPU Analog I/O and CPU Digital I/O?) or just the CPU Core Voltage Offset?

Edit: It's currently been running for 15 minutes plus with a multiplier of 45 on all cores and still no change to the voltage.

I got a screen grab of the readouts.

I'll apply the offset and see how it affects things.