Newbie itx gaming advice

GJM

GJM

GJM

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31 Oct 2011
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216
Location
Cheshire
Hi all,

OK, first off appologies.

Firstly i'm a bit of a noob.
Sorry if theres a proper place for newbie questions or dedicated guides to building basic gaming rigs, but i thought as m-itx is a bit specialised i'd post here first.

I built a gaming rig about 5 years ago. E2180, 2GB ram, ati rad 3850.
But since then i've totaly lost pace with hardware. SSD and sandybridge is all new to me.

Anyway.

I've always been interested in building a m-itx gaming rig. Small, quiet, different. And nows the time to builda new system for BF3, GTA V if and when it arrives.

But im a bit unsure as to what components to go with.

So was wanting some advice if you dont mind.

I have set aside approx £600 - £700

Mostly for gaming, would like high settings. Also possible HTPC, downloading trash and using USB tv decoder to record stuff.
Reasonable futureproof. I know £600 isnt a lot to make a futureproof rig but i would like to get a good 3/4 years out of it before updating anything major.

CPU : i5 2500k
Seems best bang for buck at the moment?
K for overclocking is not greatly needed as from what i gather overlocking is rather limited on m-itx boards, unless the latest chipsets have helped matters?

CPU cooler: ?
If overclocking on itx boards is limited then is a stock cooler sufficient or does the small size of itz cases mean aftermarket cooling is a good idea.
If overclocking is possible on newer boards whats a cheap but good ocking cooler that also fits in a confined space?

Mobo: ?
To much choice?!
Seems to Asus, Gigabyte and Zotac are the main players.
Am i right in saying Z68 chipsets the latest and offer a degree of overclocking?
Onboard Wi-Fi on the Asus and Zotac seems nice.
Otherwise, that do people recommend?

RAM: ?
Again, to much choice?!
It seems most m-itx boards only take upto 1333Mhz and 8GB - 12GB so these are the limiting factors. But so many brands? Whats hot and whats not?

GPU: ATI 3870 or GTX 560
Not put to much thought into this yet. It seems lots of itx gamers rave about the 3850 / 70 being great bang for buck. GTX 560 seems its counterpart?
But then looking through builds on here there are people putting all manner of big cards in itx cases, is the sky the limit?

Storage: ?
I have some old IHDs which i could use, but no doubt slow and noisy by modern standards. It seem the thing to do now is have a 1TB IHD and a smaller SSD with Windows on for super fast load times? Really necessary?

Case: ?
Worlds your oyster i guess. Lots of Lian Li, SilverStone, Sugo etc cases. Its just a matter of whether the GPU fits?

1 other queary. What are the pros and cons of Shuttle barebones systems? They seem to offer more features than standard itx mobos. What are the relative pros of building a system from scratch instead?

So, any advice greatly appreciated. I know its a lot to ask.

Thanks!
Graham :p
 
Right, the first step and the one that governs most of your system choice is the case.

You need to firstly choose if you want miniITX for definite or you want to go microATX. MicroATX offers up to FOUR motherboard expansion slots, miniITX offers just the one - but that one is normally PCIe so you can strap a half decent graphics card on.

Once you choose that, have a look at this list I made to keep myself up to date with SFF cases:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqsHvPQdD3R9dDAwc0NyVlFDQW9kLUEtempmU0ktUXc

This basically covers all the major gaming miniITX and microATX cases on the market, with their dimensions. Have a google at the specific models and see what you'd like. Remember - you have to stare at the thing on your desk so you need to make the choice.

Once that's done, you can start considering a PSU. Most of the cases on that list take a full size ATX PSU. Try to pick something modular, and not too long or you'll get issues with the case being cramped.

The Silverstone Sugo ITX range (SG05, 06, 07) come with their own PSU included in the price. If you go for the 05 or 06 try to get the 450W option on that, it'll help.

Once you've done that, you can start speccing the other parts. Motherboard is a case of picking something that suits the form factor, but remember that overclocking is easier with microATX than miniITX due to board choice and quality. CPU choice is dictated by board. Remember to check case dimensions before choosing a CPU cooler so that it'll fit in all directions.

Graphics card choice can be a minefield with many cases. As above - do your research and figure out how much room you have to work with before committing.

Any more questions, please ask.

[Edit] Added responses to your questions.

GJM said:
CPU : i5 2500k
Seems best bang for buck at the moment?
Click to expand...

Yep, 2600K isn't really necessary and SFF won't get the best out of it.

K for overclocking is not greatly needed as from what i gather overlocking is rather limited on m-itx boards, unless the latest chipsets have helped matters?
Click to expand...

Z68 will allow for overclocking, but the Z68 ITX boards suck for this tbh. microATX is the way to go if you want high clocks.

CPU cooler: ?
If overclocking on itx boards is limited then is a stock cooler sufficient or does the small size of itz cases mean aftermarket cooling is a good idea.
If overclocking is possible on newer boards whats a cheap but good ocking cooler that also fits in a confined space?
Click to expand...

It really depends on case. There are air coolers that'll fit, all-in-one water solutions, and on some of the bigger cases, you can even go custom water.

Better to choose a case first.

Mobo: ?
To much choice?!
Seems to Asus, Gigabyte and Zotac are the main players.
Am i right in saying Z68 chipsets the latest and offer a degree of overclocking?
Click to expand...

A bit, but they're nowhere near as good at it as their ATX brethren. I just leave mine at stock, can't be arsed with fagging around with boards not really designed for high clocks.

Onboard Wi-Fi on the Asus and Zotac seems nice.
Otherwise, that do people recommend?
Click to expand...

ITX: The Intel boards are half decent but no overclocking, or you can take your chances with the Zotac or Asrock Z68 models.

mATX: The Asus ROG Z68, ALWAYS THIS BOARD! :p

RAM: ?
Again, to much choice?!
It seems most m-itx boards only take upto 1333Mhz and 8GB - 12GB so these are the limiting factors. But so many brands? Whats hot and whats not?
Click to expand...

I'd just go for 8GB of the cheapest DDR3. You won't be able to clock enough to tax the RAM tbh.

GPU: ATI 3870 or GTX 560
Not put to much thought into this yet. It seems lots of itx gamers rave about the 3850 / 70 being great bang for buck. GTX 560 seems its counterpart?
But then looking through builds on here there are people putting all manner of big cards in itx cases, is the sky the limit?
Click to expand...

Depends on the case. Some cases allow a GTX590, some only a simple card like an HD5570. Better to choose a case first. :)

Storage: ?
I have some old IHDs which i could use, but no doubt slow and noisy by modern standards. It seem the thing to do now is have a 1TB IHD and a smaller SSD with Windows on for super fast load times? Really necessary?
Click to expand...

Small SSD for Windows and a large mechanical drive for storage seems to be the way to go, unless you're minted.

Case: ?
Worlds your oyster i guess. Lots of Lian Li, SilverStone, Sugo etc cases. Its just a matter of whether the GPU fits?
Click to expand...

See above.

1 other queary. What are the pros and cons of Shuttle barebones systems? They seem to offer more features than standard itx mobos. What are the relative pros of building a system from scratch instead?
Click to expand...

They're not bad little systems but you don't half pay through the nose for them. Doing it yourself will save you a fair bit of cash unless you manage a storming deal on a Shuttle.
 
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I need to get around to doing a proper sticky at some point tbh, it's just hard as it'll need to be maintained with new case and technology releases.
 
Many thanks for the hints Tute, it's given me a better understanding of where to start and methodicaly work my way up through the hardware i need.

You asked whether its really itx or atx i need. I've always liked the idea of a mini build so itx is the first stop.

But of course the eyes can always be bigger than the stomach as it were...

I fancy a 'do it all' PC that can game but also be a media, theatre, TV PC.
This idealy means expansion slots for a TV card, USB tv sticks really dont mesh well with the idea of a neat, mini build.

But that flies in the face of ITX, no expansion slots.

So i've had a look at your list of micro-atx cases.

The trouble is if your doing a SFF build you want it to be.... well... small!
And even the smaller desktop m-atx cases look huge in comparison to itx builds. So much so i think if i were to go micro-atx, why not go the whole hog and go full size atx, theres not that much size difference.

So i think i'd like to stick to itx, small and neat. Even if that does mean using a usb TV tuner.

Thats another nod towards a Shuttle build. They have PCIe x16 and a PCIe x1 so i could have both PGU and TV. I'm just not sure if they would both fit, the sockets seem very close together.
 
I’m sure it’s all been covered here. I looked at ITX but with mATX you aren’t adding a much bigger footprint and you have some big performance gains and added features. I think mATX is the best option for a HTPC with gaming and use as a regular desktop. There are also more options on hardware.

I think ITX is great if you are after JUST a HTPC without using it for much strenuous work. I wouldn’t really consider it for gaming.
 
There are many advantages going with a matx board for a htpc, they have the extra pci-e slots, which I miss on the Asrock itx board.
I narrow my choice down to the Asrock Z68M/USB3 & Z68M-ITX/HT, & decided on itx for it's size, which was a mistake.
 
Last edited:
skullkid said:
I’m sure it’s all been covered here. I looked at ITX but with mATX you aren’t adding a much bigger footprint and you have some big performance gains and added features. I think mATX is the best option for a HTPC with gaming and use as a regular desktop. There are also more options on hardware.

I think ITX is great if you are after JUST a HTPC without using it for much strenuous work. I wouldn’t really consider it for gaming.
Click to expand...

:eek: For pure gaming on anything other than 2560x1600 ITX is the way forwards. So many people never overclock and only ever use one GPU and nothing in all the other expansion slots so why not go ITX?
 
Thing is, I think there are a limited amount of ITX cases that are even worth bothering with. For example, things like the Cubitek Mini Tank are just a waste of R&D - it's so large that you may as well just get a decent microATX.

Personally my favourite mATX case is the SG03. Same footprint as an SG05/06 but it can take two graphics cards, all-in-one watercooling, and full size ATX PSUs. It's a brilliant bit of kit.
 
Tute said:
Thing is, I think there are a limited amount of ITX cases that are even worth bothering with. For example, things like the Cubitek Mini Tank are just a waste of R&D - it's so large that you may as well just get a decent microATX.

Personally my favourite mATX case is the SG03. Same footprint as an SG05/06 but it can take two graphics cards, all-in-one watercooling, and full size ATX PSUs. It's a brilliant bit of kit.
Click to expand...

For me footprint is less important than volume. So SG07/08 for me!
 
Is that the height clearance? At least there are some low profile coolers like the big shuriken which are well reviewed that will fit matx but I doubt a cooler that size would fit a itx due to fouling on the RAM and poss gfx card? Ay the very least you will need some low profile memory. Itx gaming is going to be more expensive. There's a tasty itx gaming build I found using Google. He built it earlier this year but has a high spec radeon, i5 2500k etc from what I read.

Edit here you go http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2139225

As you can see not much room for error but its a powerful rig.
 
skullkid said:
Is that the height clearance? At least there are some low profile coolers like the big shuriken which are well reviewed that will fit matx but I doubt a cooler that size would fit a itx due to fouling on the RAM and poss gfx card? Ay the very least you will need some low profile memory. Itx gaming is going to be more expensive. There's a tasty itx gaming build I found using Google. He built it earlier this year but has a high spec radeon, i5 2500k etc from what I read.

Edit here you go http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2139225

As you can see not much room for error but its a powerful rig.
Click to expand...

Not really. That case you liked to, the Silverstone SG07, will comfortably take a Thermalright AXP-140 which is a faaar better cooler than the Shuriken and there is no RAM clearance (as long as you don't have stupidly massive heatsinks that you don't even need) issues nor does it obstruct the PCI-e slot. Everything everyone has ever told you about ITX being rubbish or expensive is wrong (although admittedly you do get less for your money but you are paying for the tiny tiny size, ITX is tiny even compared to mATX). An ITX build will be no more expensive than an mATX build and all it takes is a little more research. You cannot just throw stuff together and expect it to all fit and that rule applies to some mATX builds too.
 
Wesena ITX7 case. Check it out. Lovely looking and lots of venting holes etc. Pico PSU would have to be used though.
 
Thanks for the replies so far chaps, much appreciated.

I think im starting to settle on the basis of a system.

SilverStone Sugo SG05 BB - 450W £103
About as small as you can go with GPU.
450w PSU
Will fit most cards.

Zotac Z68 ITX WiFi £130
Z68 board with mild overclock capabilities
Inbuilt WiFi, i dont like the idea of a small, neat build with a USB wifi stick.

i5 2500k £179

Kingston HyperX 8GB Ram £40
Going cheap OcUk

GPU £170
See below

= £ 622

So that leaves...

CPU cooler????
Need something that will fit in the SG05 but adequatly cool the i5 with a little overclocking.

GPU????
I'm looking in the £170 -/+ £20 region.
Needs to fit SG05, not to much of a problem as will fit anything but the largest of cards.
I'm hearing about 6850s being flashes to 6870? Or the 560 is getting praise at the moment?


We're getting there...slowly :D
 
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