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next gen consoles

Its down to the devs to update the current games to use the extra power.. It will be interesting to see how current games that already use a unlocked frame rate do for example Hitman
You then have games say like GTA5 "no word on a patch yet" That could allow either extra IQ or unlock the frame rate.

I honestly feel even though this console is aiming for 4k I think the best experience will still remain at 1080p with the extra frame rate etc
 
It sounds to me for backwards compatible games they will switch of parts of the hardware but going forwards developers will use the extra power to improve visuals at 1080p or let you use 4k. It makes no sense to not use the extra power available.
 
The Xbox Scorpio will be marketed as 'next gen' though, and the big selling points are likely going to be:

  • 4K Blu Ray player (PS4 Pro doesn't have one)

.

Why is this a benefit to scorpio when the XBox S already has it?
It certainly wont increase the sales of the Scorpio just because of this (as users who are only interested in this will surely get a much cheaper S instead)

(unless Microsoft dont neuter the Scorpio and it has full HD audio capability)

Sony will need to be very careful if they were planning on having the PS4 Pro last 3-4 years.

I will be absolutely amazed if the PS5 is any significant time before winter 2019 simply from the design / manufacturing point of view of the Pro.

It will have cost Sony a small fortune to re-design the Pro (compared to a huge fortune for a brand new console), and they will want to get their money back - and more.
Obviously the Pro is mainly aimed at VR and getting a wider audience interested in this side of gaming - or "experiences". Part for part the Pro is probably cheaper to produce , before you allow for the additional GPU and standard RAM, latter of course will only be a few quid though, otherwise its effectively the same thing re-packaged.

I just cant see Sony even publicly discussing anything detailed about the PS5 for at least 18 months with another 18 months or so before its actually on sale.

As above I think they are banking on being 6-8 months ahead of MS in regards to VR and seeing how it goes, given how far ahead they are this generation (which in the end has been more of a slaughter than anything else - give or take twice as many ps4's sold as XBOne).
 
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Why is this a benefit to scorpio when the XBox S already has it?
It certainly wont increase the sales of the Scorpio just because of this (as users who are only interested in this will surely get a much cheaper S instead)

(unless Microsoft dont neuter the Scorpio and it has full HD audio capability)

Marketing will be Scorpio vs PS4 Pro. It's largely irrelevant what the Xbone S can do.

Sure, people who want a 4K Blu Ray player and don't care about the 'next gen' exclusives on the Scorpio won't care. But what about people who are looking to buy either a PS4 Pro or Scorpio? Could easily sway them.

I will be absolutely amazed if the PS5 is any significant time before winter 2019 simply from the design / manufacturing point of view of the Pro.

It will have cost Sony a small fortune to re-design the Pro (compared to a huge fortune for a brand new console), and they will want to get their money back - and more.
Obviously the Pro is mainly aimed at VR and getting a wider audience interested in this side of gaming - or "experiences". Part for part the Pro is probably cheaper to produce , before you allow for the additional GPU and standard RAM, latter of course will only be a few quid though, otherwise its effectively the same thing re-packaged.

I just cant see Sony even publicly discussing anything detailed about the PS5 for at least 18 months with another 18 months or so before its actually on sale.

As above I think they are banking on being 6-8 months ahead of MS in regards to VR and seeing how it goes, given how far ahead they are this generation (which in the end has been more of a slaughter than anything else - give or take twice as many ps4's sold as XBOne).

I can only see them holding out that long if they reaaalllly want to use Zen+, Navi, and HBM3 in a 7nm SoC.

If Sony poorly execute their exclusives library, and/or the Scorpio + Oculus is seen as a lot better, and/or cross platform games run a lot worse on the PS4 pro; then they may be in for poor sales until they bring out their 'real' new console.
 
Microsoft stated there won't be any "next gen" exclusives for the Scorpio compared to S so they would still be looking at the S. I am looking at the Scorpio to see how it affects prices of the S and also what storage is on offer. 4K games will need more space for larger texture resolutions so they need to be able to offer the space needed to make it viable.
 
I asked previously if anyone had any idea how much a Scorpio will likely retail at and understandably no-one knows. Saying that the Scorpio is going to natively support the OR as well then you're still looking at £550 just to get into VR on the Scorpio, plus the price of the console itself.

It sounds like the Scorpio is going to be in a completely different price bracket to the PS4, not a competitor at all. A Scorpio and OR is looking more and more like being the same price as a PC and an OR, no?
 
I asked previously if anyone had any idea how much a Scorpio will likely retail at and understandably no-one knows. Saying that the Scorpio is going to natively support the OR as well then you're still looking at £550 just to get into VR on the Scorpio, plus the price of the console itself.

It sounds like the Scorpio is going to be in a completely different price bracket to the PS4, not a competitor at all. A Scorpio and OR is looking more and more like being the same price as a PC and an OR, no?

Of course there's been no confirmation, but I'd be surprised if the Scorpio was more than £400 (well, before the £ drop anyway).

And then it wouldn't surprise me if they did a £800-900 Scorpio+Rift bundle. Depending on if they actually want to push VR and compete with the PSVR, or just have support.

Bear in mind also the Rift CV1 would have been out for 18 months when the Scorpio comes out. So if there isn't a CV2 yet, they should have at least got some internal cost reductions under their belt.
 
Bearing in mind that you can currently pick up a PS4 and PSVR for £550 I don't see how the two are in the same market. Sure the PS4 Pro would add another £100 on top but even so.

To me they won't be competing products as they'll be in a completely different league when it comes to prices.
 
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Bearing in mind that you can currently pick up a PS4 and PSVR for £550 I don't see how the two are in the same market. Sure the PS4 Pro would add another £100 on top but even so.

To me they won't be competing products as they'll be in a completely different league when it comes to prices.

I see what you're saying yeah.

It'll mostly come down to what games are available, and if they really take advantage of the power.

If both the PS4 Pro and Scorpio end up as 'the same games but higher settings', then it'll be disappointing. And the PS4 Pro would probably win in that scenario just because it'll be cheaper.
 
Marketing will be Scorpio vs PS4 Pro. It's largely irrelevant what the Xbone S can do.

Sure, people who want a 4K Blu Ray player and don't care about the 'next gen' exclusives on the Scorpio won't care. But what about people who are looking to buy either a PS4 Pro or Scorpio? Could easily sway them.

No it isnt irrelevant because the Pro and the XBOne S are out right now - rather than 6 months time. So anyone interested in a cheap UHD player is looking now, rather than waiting for a more expensive console than the S

(not to mention all the players from general electronics companies that compete on price with the Scorpio when its released)

Anyone interested in (just) a console wont be swayed either way by the UHD player (or at the most on a minor level).

Highly unlikely to sway a significant factor in 6 months


I can only see them holding out that long if they reaaalllly want to use Zen+, Navi, and HBM3 in a 7nm SoC.

If Sony poorly execute their exclusives library, and/or the Scorpio + Oculus is seen as a lot better, and/or cross platform games run a lot worse on the PS4 pro; then they may be in for poor sales until they bring out their 'real' new console.

firstly thats a very big "If" , no way of knowing that either way right now.

Baring in mind that even now you are talking about a 4 Pro + PSVR = approx £700 (admittedly camera and controlloers are a little more on top) vs Scorpio + Occulus more like £900 - £1000

(as far as I know Occulus is £600+ , maybe less once Scorpio is out to buy) - thats a significant difference which again will put off a lot of casual gamers unless they already have a lot invested in the MS market place (but again this is unlikely given we are talking about "casual" gamers).

Also baring in mind that MS would have to sell the same amount of Scorpio's as they have in XBOne's to date to even challange what PS4's have sold to date without taking into account any PSVR related sales to come on Sony's side.

Either way its not necessarily about technologies that are talked about now that Sony are interested in for PS5 - it could well be something totally new / or some kind of hybrid parts that dont appear anywhere else.

Personally think PSVR is good enough to sell a decent amount of PS4Pro's (while maybe not blowing the market out of the water) to keep Sony going for a reasonable length of time before PS5 is released

Remember Sony also have to see how the market takes VR itself, it may end up being a donkey like 3D or it could be HD which has basically been a natural progression of what came before. This is going to take time without even considering how much work may be required into developing hardware and software for the next stage of VR (if relevant , a big step will be required to hinge a whole new generation on it).

edit - I cant think of any console bundles that have included items from a completely seperate manufacturer (OR is Facebook I believe). Of course MS has the purchasing power to buy 100's of thousands if not millions of OR headsets and sell them at a discount - but are they really likely to? Being MS, surely they would have to do it - even as a special launch bundle of the Scorpio - on a mamoth scale of 100's of thousands (world wide), anything less and it would surely be seen as a drop in the ocean and potentially mis leading (at how few are available) and could backfire hugely. Even discounting by £200 a bundle would be costing them £20m / 100,000 units. Given how much MS would be losing on the console itself - is this possible? At a Guess I would suggest the Scorpio is going to start at around £350 - £400 somewhere around that (maybe including a game or two - which of course might cost them zilch)

Of course this doesnt cover any projected savings OC may make in the next 6 months and any reduction in the retail price (not to mention how quickly OC would actually be able to produce this many headsets which might be a huge challange in itself)
 
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firstly thats a very big "If" , no way of knowing that either way right now.

Baring in mind that even now you are talking about a 4 Pro + PSVR = approx £700 (admittedly camera and controlloers are a little more on top) vs Scorpio + Occulus more like £900 - £1000

...............

I do see what you're saying yeah.

It may not be quite as bad as you envisage for MS' finances though. Remember both Sony and MS weren't making losses on the Xbone and PS4. And it's doubtful Sony are making a loss on the PS4 Pro, since it isn't a massive upgrade.

So it's plausible a £400 6 Tflop Scorpio console isn't making a loss, with Winter 2017 manufacturing.

Additionally the current price of the Oculus Rift is supposedly break-even, and possibly a small profit (won't be a loss). So it's also highly plausible the production cost could be ~£100 cheaper 18 months after launch.

In which case, if they had a 50/50 split deal, an £800 Scorpio + Rift bundle could only be costing both companies £5 million per 100,000 units. They'd likely consider that worth the advertising and install base.

Obviously all conjecture on my part, but they could end up being similarly priced.

If the PS4 pro console itself, and also the Pro + PSVR bundle remains cheaper than the Scorpio and Scorpio + Rfit, then I think Sony won't have much to worry about.

It'll all come down to whether the Scorpio can be clearly better and the same price, or not-clearly better and more expensive.
 
I do see what you're saying yeah.

It may not be quite as bad as you envisage for MS' finances though. Remember both Sony and MS weren't making losses on the Xbone and PS4. And it's doubtful Sony are making a loss on the PS4 Pro, since it isn't a massive upgrade.

So it's plausible a £400 6 Tflop Scorpio console isn't making a loss, with Winter 2017 manufacturing..

The XBOne (normal) probably isnt making a loss by now. The S still may be depending on how much the UHD drive is costing them to buy in (even in the 10's of thousands they need)

The Scorpio will make a large loss to start with (like every new console has in the past), maybe not as much as a brand new generation but it will still be a significant loss imo.


Additionally the current price of the Oculus Rift is supposedly break-even, and possibly a small profit (won't be a loss). So it's also highly plausible the production cost could be ~£100 cheaper 18 months after launch..

Given this is the bleeding edge of technology currently (in regards to retail) I doubt they would be able to make it that much cheaper that quickly given the relatively small production they are doing (not that long ago they were still behind in production compared to orders).


In which case, if they had a 50/50 split deal, an £800 Scorpio + Rift bundle could only be costing both companies £5 million per 100,000 units. They'd likely consider that worth the advertising and install base...

Laughs@ Facebook doing such a huge favour for MS. I also beieve that OR is actually standing on its own two feet so might not be able to lose that amount of stock that quickly into its relatively short life. Also the support nature of it would put huge demands on OR infrastructure.

While OR have a good reason to get a decent attachment rate to Scorpio, you also have to consider whether they can cope with demand at that level and I think that would be a stretch to say the least.

It'll all come down to whether the Scorpio can be clearly better and the same price, or not-clearly better and more expensive.

Totally agree with this

Even at your optimistic pricing it looks like there will be at the very least £100 difference at retail between the two packages (again, admittedly Im ignoring the cost of the camera and move controllers balanced out by a guess on the Scorpio price) - so for the casual gamer it will be all about what exclusives they prefer and whether any visual differences are worth that £100 ~
 
Maybe they've changed it, I kept seeing interviews with them harping on about how it wouldn't offer a better experience at 1080p. They've talked several times about how with older games and at 1080p they'll just clock the gpu down and turn half of it off.
They haven't changed anything.

The talk of turning half the GPU off refers to running older titles, as you say. Games with no PS4 Pro update. That's it.

And they've insisted that there *will* be benefits at 1080p. Any resolution improvements will still be enjoyed by 1080p users, but it will be via downsampling rather than being able to enjoy it in full native resolution glory. There will also be performance benefits. They've never said anything to suggest this wasn't the case so I dont know what you're thinking you read or saw.

If at least newer games are going to take advantage and be better at 1080p that is certainly less bad than I thought. Though they only mention pushing res up to 1080p
This just isn't true. Again, not sure where you've gotten this idea. :/
 
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