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next gen consoles

Yeah it'd be much more sensible for them to go for 1080p60 with ultra-settings and some AA, rather than 4K30.
I wouldn't say it is 'much more sensible', I think it will come down to what a developer's priorities are. I'd imagine most consoles gamers are not as gung-ho for 60fps like PC gamers are, so aiming to boost resolution or graphics seems like a potentially more marketable strategy.

I just think that *some* devs may choose to go performance-first. Could depend on game and everything, too.
 
Yeah it'd be much more sensible for them to go for 1080p60 with ultra-settings and some AA, rather than 4K30.

6 Tflops should be able to do that, especially factoring in extra optimisation for it being a console. I wouldn't be surprised if the scorpio ends up being comparable to a stock GTX 1080 on PC (or a tiny bit slower, again factoring in console optimisation).

Stock 1080 is 9Tflops. It will be comparable to a Rx 480 or 970/980 in nvidia terms. If they are using an AMD GPU anyway.

Console optimisation wont really make a hell of a lot of difference seeing as both PC and console GPU's will be relatively close on power terms.

But 1080p 60frames with maxed settings is a better choice in my opinion.
 
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I'm looking forward to the PS4+ as its release will have a knock on effect of making more secondhand PS4's available at a lower price and then I can jump on one to play all the exclusives I've never played such as The Last of us, Unchartered 4 and Gran Turismo 5 & 6.
 
What I wonder is will they give the user another option as well as 4k. I think it might interesting if they gave the higher console access to the lower console settings as well so that the user has a high FPS lower resolution option if their preference is FPS over Resolution.
 
*necromancer spell*
hate to say it but it seem i might be right afterall, PS4 pro is going to have m-gpu (probably on interposer with HBM).
"First, we doubled the GPU size by essentially placing it next to a mirrored version of itself, sort of like the wings of a butterfly. That gives us an extremely clean way to support the existing 700 titles," Cerny explains, detailing how the Pro switches into its 'base' compatibility mode. "We just turn off half the GPU and run it at something quite close to the original GPU."

full article below
source : Eurogamer
 
*necromancer spell*
hate to say it but it seem i might be right afterall, PS4 pro is going to have m-gpu (probably on interposer with HBM).


full article below
source : Eurogamer

To me it just sounds like they are turning off half the die. It's the way they are making it so when games are pre pr4pro they will use the same power or very close to make it run just like a ps4 then when new games are running and the console is hooked upto a 4k tv the other half of the die will be enable to power the extra pixel pushing power needed. Nothing there to indicate a interposer or HBM to me. Nor multi gpu. They did something similar with the xbox 360 slim where the gpu ended up being more powerfull due to it being new hardware they had to enable a bottleneck to restrict the power ie disable parts of the gpu to get it close as possible to the original.

Also we know the specs of the memory too its 8GB GDDR5 at 218GB/s for the PS4 Pro vs PS4 8GB GDDR5 at 176GB/s. So again doubtful.
 
The situation is going to be odd when the Xbox Scorpio arrives though.

The PS4 pro is getting superseded very quickly, so are they going to bring out a PS5 in 2018 or something?

Really the PS4 pro just allows it to upscale to 4K, and run the PSVR much better. Rather than fundamentally improving the console, and/or allowing them to do things they couldn't do before.

Whereas the Scorpio is a decent enough bump in power for Xbox to just about call it 'true next gen'.
 
The idea of the steam machine was to be able to threaten Windows/MS. Given that none of the "launched" steam machines ever got to market, i am assuming its dead as a concept.

I was wondering if this was the case, I said it at the time, A: Steam's OS is Linux based so the games available are limited by that. And B: They haven't got access to certain big titles like the newer Battlefield games so why would someone of the target audience want to go with that, Yes you can theoretically do a dual boot on a Steam box (ie a PC) but that goes completely against the point of it.

Add to that how for example I noticed today that Steam are pushing Mad Max in the shop as now having Steam OS support. The game released 13 months ago ffs.

It boggles the mind how such daft ideas even get passed the beer mat they must off been scribbled on originally.
 
The PS4 pro is getting superseded very quickly, so are they going to bring out a PS5 in 2018 or something?

You can bet safe money on the fact that in their ideal world a new console would be released every 2, 3 or 4 years.

That's probably half the reason for why there now PC based, That way it'll cut there development time & costs in half.
 
You can bet safe money on the fact that in their ideal world a new console would be released every 2, 3 or 4 years.

That's probably half the reason for why there now PC based, That way it'll cut there development time & costs in half.

Personally i think it's the way to go. It would keep the consoles more current and give me a good idea what to buy myself or my kids for Christmas more often :D:D.
 
You can bet safe money on the fact that in their ideal world a new console would be released every 2, 3 or 4 years.

That's probably half the reason for why there now PC based, That way it'll cut there development time & costs in half.

Based on the available technologies over the next couple of years, I'd have thought there's a very strong case for using a 7nm Zen+/Navi APU with HBM2 as a 'true' next gen console. That should be doable for a Winter 2018 launch.

Maybe mature 14nm Zen/Vega with HBM2 would also be good enough to call next gen.
 
I think they are going with the idea of iterations. A bit like how Samsung and Apple do with their phones and they sell very well. Where they have for example iphone 6 then 6s which is slightly faster and sometimes comes with slight improvements.

Instead of the console cycle being every 10 years they get release iterations every 4-5 years?
 
Based on the available technologies over the next couple of years, I'd have thought there's a very strong case for using a 7nm Zen+/Navi APU with HBM2 as a 'true' next gen console. That should be doable for a Winter 2018 launch.

Maybe mature 14nm Zen/Vega with HBM2 would also be good enough to call next gen.


Doable, but asking for a monumental failure imho. If they released a new console pretty much 2 years after the PS4 pro, they'll be offering really terrible value in terms of longevity to customers. Less than 3-4 years is going to push people to thinking a PC and just upgrading the graphics card every 2 years is a better option(and it is).

If they wait till at least late 2019 they can beat Scorpio performance by a larger amount but risk as with Scorpio vs PS4 pro and PS4 vs Xbox one, launching at the wrong time. If MS release a new console again a year later with a significant performance boost they are screwed again.Xbox One had non impressive sales because everyone knew the PS4 was 50% faster, which led to more games rendered at 1080p or with higher frame rate. Basically the majority of games give a superior performance on PS4 and it became the clear sales leader, by a mile.Scorpio will now be the same, 50% faster than the PS4 pro and everyone knows it. MS will obviously market that if you want higher frame rate or higher resolution there is one choice, they'll literally say they made a mistake on the Xbox One and say that is why they knew they needed more power. They'll market the very reason the PS4 won as the reason to choose Scorpio and not make all the same horrible marketing choices with the Xbox One which had to be changed last second.

Personally I would say due to the cheapness of development with semi custom, the second they realised their console was going to be so vastly underpowered they should have started moving to a new chip for it. They could have ended up 6 months later than Scorpio, but with the same or maybe marginally more power. Instead while the Pro comes first, everyone already knows the Scorpio will flat out trounce it.

Sony also made a big deal about turning off half the chip for 1080p, about not offering better gaming for 1080p... huge huge marketing mistake, horrible in fact. If they just said hey, this one will do 4k with similar performance to the PS4, or will make certain we can achieve 60fps in 1080p it would attract far more buyers. That they won't offer a smoother higher frame rate 1080p is a joke and is actively going to put off a huge number of buyers. So PS4 pro will be out first, but everyone knows it won't be the best console and by a large margin. If MS now market sensibly, drop any gimmicks, focus on gaming and market about higher framerate at 1080p or 4k gaming (with still 50% higher performance than PS4 pro) then most people will wait for the Scorpio and of a 3-4 year cycle Scorpio will win, hands down.

Sony have already marketed PS4 Pro as 33% slower than Scorpio and offering zero benefit at 1080p..... bad hardware AND Xbox One scale terrible marketing/design choices, how did this happen. Seriously if a year ago they found out Scorpio would be 50% faster or suspect it they could have started not even from scratch, just the work to replace Polaris IP blocks with larger Vega IP block, either HBM2 or 4 more gddr5 chips for more bandwidth and they have a Scorpio matching chip, a 12-18 month delay but that puts them maybe 6 months behind Scorpio. Horrible horrible decision to keep going.
 
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You can bet safe money on the fact that in their ideal world a new console would be released every 2, 3 or 4 years.

That's probably half the reason for why there now PC based, That way it'll cut there development time & costs in half.

+1

Can't see them waiting as long as they did from PS3 to PS4 / X360 to X1.
 
They are pushing '4k' way too early, PS4 Pro with its faux 4k rendering is already struggling with frame rates all over the place.

Not sure what hope consoles have with 4k when even high end GPU's struggle to maintain decent fps. Scorpio will probably do native locked 30fps and that's its lot.. 4k isn't worth it until all new games can run at a solid 60+ fps on a single GPU IMO, and then it would have to be 100+hz for me. So a while off for that.

The consoles can keep their 4k with low frame rates, i don't want em :p
 
They are pushing '4k' way too early, PS4 Pro with its faux 4k rendering is already struggling with frame rates all over the place.

Not sure what hope consoles have with 4k when even high end GPU's struggle to maintain decent fps. Scorpio will probably do native locked 30fps and that's its lot.. 4k isn't worth it until all new games can run at a solid 60+ fps on a single GPU IMO, and then it would have to be 100+hz for me. So a while off for that.

The consoles can keep their 4k with low frame rates, i don't want em :p

The goal of consoles isn't to render 4k with ultimate quality, it's to produce as good a 4k image on a 4k tv as possible. Aside from that you can easily play 4k on high end PC hardware, you just can't do it at max settings, doing it at lowest is frankly easy.


People are buying 4k screens for Neflix, youtube, blurays, Amazon(? do they do 4k?) content and some tv content now also. Anyone with half a brain isn't today looking to buy a brand new 1080p set when we're flatly in the '4k era' now. As such, people with 4k screens what a console that puts out not the best 4k image ever, but the best 4k image possible. You can't buy a 1440p TV, it's 1080p or 4k because filming doesn't have the same problem as gaming, you don't struggle to film at the same frame rate in 4k as 1080p. So you have 4k tvs, you have no choice but consoles that support the best image they can produce at 4k, it's that simple.

I read, though I'm not sure how accurate but sounds about right, that the PS4 Pro will render at 1800p and upscale to 4k. A 1800p image upscaled to 4k will look hugely better than a 1080p image upscaled to 4k. Ultimately these consoles are necessary because the move to 4k tvs is big now and people buying new screens are going 4k for reasons outside of gaming but gaming has to match it.

My next tv will without question now be 4k whenever I get it and having a console producing the best image quality possible for it will be an important factor in console buying choice. Unfortunately due to the power difference, Sony pretty much screwed up. As with the current consoles Scorpio will likely have a mix of titles that are either higher res(and less upscaling so better IQ) or same resolution or even very slightly less if they can make it all the way to 60fps while Sony can't achieve that.

EDIT:- also worth noting that HDR could be offering what is an effectively free huge boost in image quality, simply by being newer compatible hardware, so again buying a new HDR/4k screen, even the pretty weak PS4 pro will look hugely better than the Xbox One or PS4 on such a screen. It's just a shame they've decided that higher frame rate/higher res rendering option for all the 1080p users(as in rendering at full 1080p and/or 60fps solidly where possible) is not going to happen.
 
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Well yes for video and stuff obviously it helps, for gaming it just drags down frame rate. I heard 1080p blu rays look pretty good upscaled to 4k too.

PS4 Pro is using checkerboard rendering yes i already knew that, so it's not native 4k.. but in games even that is struggling. Anyway my main point is that it's not really ready for games.

Locked 30fps 4k gaming has been doable on PC for a little while as well, it's hitting 60fps and staying there with high settings is the problem. Minimums drop quite a lot in demanding games so it's not much good at the moment if you like high fps.
 
Doable, but asking for a monumental failure imho. If they released a new console pretty much 2 years after the PS4 pro, they'll be offering really terrible value in terms of longevity to customers. Less than 3-4 years is going to push people to thinking a PC and just upgrading the graphics card every 2 years is a better option(and it is).

If they wait till at least late 2019 they can beat Scorpio performance by a larger amount but risk as with Scorpio vs PS4 pro and PS4 vs Xbox one, launching at the wrong time. If MS release a new console again a year later with a significant performance boost they are screwed again.Xbox One had non impressive sales because everyone knew the PS4 was 50% faster, which led to more games rendered at 1080p or with higher frame rate. Basically the majority of games give a superior performance on PS4 and it became the clear sales leader, by a mile.Scorpio will now be the same, 50% faster than the PS4 pro and everyone knows it. MS will obviously market that if you want higher frame rate or higher resolution there is one choice, they'll literally say they made a mistake on the Xbox One and say that is why they knew they needed more power. They'll market the very reason the PS4 won as the reason to choose Scorpio and not make all the same horrible marketing choices with the Xbox One which had to be changed last second.

Personally I would say due to the cheapness of development with semi custom, the second they realised their console was going to be so vastly underpowered they should have started moving to a new chip for it. They could have ended up 6 months later than Scorpio, but with the same or maybe marginally more power. Instead while the Pro comes first, everyone already knows the Scorpio will flat out trounce it.

Sony also made a big deal about turning off half the chip for 1080p, about not offering better gaming for 1080p... huge huge marketing mistake, horrible in fact. If they just said hey, this one will do 4k with similar performance to the PS4, or will make certain we can achieve 60fps in 1080p it would attract far more buyers. That they won't offer a smoother higher frame rate 1080p is a joke and is actively going to put off a huge number of buyers. So PS4 pro will be out first, but everyone knows it won't be the best console and by a large margin. If MS now market sensibly, drop any gimmicks, focus on gaming and market about higher framerate at 1080p or 4k gaming (with still 50% higher performance than PS4 pro) then most people will wait for the Scorpio and of a 3-4 year cycle Scorpio will win, hands down.

Sony have already marketed PS4 Pro as 33% slower than Scorpio and offering zero benefit at 1080p..... bad hardware AND Xbox One scale terrible marketing/design choices, how did this happen. Seriously if a year ago they found out Scorpio would be 50% faster or suspect it they could have started not even from scratch, just the work to replace Polaris IP blocks with larger Vega IP block, either HBM2 or 4 more gddr5 chips for more bandwidth and they have a Scorpio matching chip, a 12-18 month delay but that puts them maybe 6 months behind Scorpio. Horrible horrible decision to keep going.

Basically summarises all my thoughts.

Sony will be in a precarious position, and IMO it's not smart for them to leave it as PS4 Pro vs Xbox Scorpio for long at all.

Maybe they could get away with 2 years, which would then allow them to launch something with mature 7nm and HBM3. But I think leaving it 3 years (Winter 2020) would be suicide.
 
Basically summarises all my thoughts.

Sony will be in a precarious position, and IMO it's not smart for them to leave it as PS4 Pro vs Xbox Scorpio for long at all.

Maybe they could get away with 2 years, which would then allow them to launch something with mature 7nm and HBM3. But I think leaving it 3 years (Winter 2020) would be suicide.

Why? The PS4 is already far, far ahead. Unlike an entirely new generation, people aren't going to be so quick to drop their current consoles for one of these slightly-upgraded ones.
 
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