NHS Doctor Pensions - For the few, not the many

[Pudney]

No one is saying the pension is bad, people are saying why pick up extra work when the effective tax is ~85% and the extra you don’t see until retirement.

I’ll ask again, would you pick up 2 weeks extra work a year (formalised extra days not just counting good willl) fitted around your current full time job while only being paid ~15% of your current wage in pension benefits?

Pedantically you haven't said the previous at all. To help I'll quote your previous point and highlight the important difference.

I think you’ve missed the point, if they work extra they take home zero overall, that’s not tax dodging, would you work and extra 2 weeks a year for no extra net income?

 

[grimm]

When you demonstrate that you’re actually capable of listening to the truths that people are telling you rather than just spouting your opinion and beliefs, and assumptions, you might be worth listening too.

Did a high earning doctor harm you as a child?

This is just vitriol and not constructive at all. I have educated at least 1 person in this thread so far already, what have you done besides complain because you can't afford a new Bentley this year? I thought you had put me on ignore anyway?

I don't have to demonstrate anything to you regardless, I'm not sure why you'd suggest such a thing, you are not my keeper.

 

[tamzzy]

I have educated at least 1 person in this thread so far already

who me? no. not really. all you have told me about is "scheme pays" which doesn't really pay because the interest rates are sky high.
so don't pretend that that is 'education'

 

[tamzzy]

At that point you should probably just be opting out of the pension scheme, stop saving into pensions altogether, and start investing in other tax efficient investments/savings vehicles. This will affect anyone that has heavily funded their pensions over the years and are approaching or over the LTA.

@grimm as you keep pointing this out...and i keep rebutting, the nhs pension contributions do not work like that. it is all-or-nothing.
maybe you're the one that needs educating.

 

[grimm]

who me? no. not really. all you have told me about is "scheme pays" which doesn't really pay because the interest rates are sky high.
so don't pretend that that is 'education'

ah. never knew about that one.
i'll have a chat to my bosses and financial adviser to see why most/all my bosses aren't interested/aware of this.

Sounds like you learned something to me...

 

[grimm]

@grimm as you keep pointing this out...and i keep rebutting, the nhs pension contributions do not work like that. it is all-or-nothing.
maybe you're the one that needs educating.

You can opt in or out of the scheme at your leisure, just take a year out of the scheme if you are that worried about the tax. As I have stated many times already in this thread, there are proposals coming through to rectify the situation. Opt out until then maybe?

And again, as I have already said, speak to your financial adviser.

 

[tamzzy]

Sounds like you learned something to me...

err no. learning is speaking to my financial adviser and finding out that scheme pays is practically scam, and worthless.

 

[grimm]

err no. learning is speaking to my financial adviser and finding out that scheme pays is practically scam, and worthless.

That's your uneducated opinion. Speak to your financial adviser about it and maybe he can do some calculations to see if it would help you.

 

[tamzzy]

You can opt in or out of the scheme at your leisure, just take a year out of the scheme if you are that worried about the tax

it is very different. the 2015 nhs pension is career average earnings. if you don't contribute for a year, that's a very large hit to one's final pension.
this is totally different to reducing pension contributions. nhs pension contributions are all-or-nothing.

That's your uneducated opinion. Speak to your financial adviser about it and maybe he can do some calculations to see if it would help you.

i already have. herp derp

 

[grimm]

i already have. herp derp

Well you didn't know about scheme pays at all before, in fact you tried telling me it wasn't possible it before, so I at the very least prompted you to have a conversation with your financial adviser about it didn't I?

See below.

Why don't they just opt to pay the tax bill via the scheme?

because you can't?

Yes you can, go and read up on it.

 

[eviled]

Pedantically you haven't said the previous at all. To help I'll quote your previous point and highlight the important difference.

Pedantically they are different things. Your take home pay won't go up if the only benefit is (your normal wage x 0.15) into your pension pot.

There a lot of vitriol about NHS pensions.

Let me summarise

• NHS pension scheme is great
• Senior doctors seem reluctant to pick up extra days for minimal financial gain
• This situation is due to tapered pension annual allowance

 

[tamzzy]

Well you didn't know about scheme pays at all before, in fact you tried telling me it wasn't possible it before, so I at the very least prompted you to have a conversation with your financial adviser about it didn't I?

indeed. telling me about scheme pays does not equal 'educating' me about the scheme, as you're alluding to, albeit dishonestly.
it's like me saying "don't give a chinese person a clock as a present" that's telling you what to do.
whereas: "don't give a chinese person a clock as a present because it signifies (hastening) their death" <- that's education

 

[grimm]

indeed. telling me about scheme pays does not equal 'educating' me about the scheme, as you're alluding to, albeit dishonestly.
it's like me saying "don't give a chinese person a clock as a present" that's telling you what to do.
whereas: "don't give a chinese person a clock as a present because it signifies (hastening) their death" <- that's education

What more could I have possibly have done on an internet forum without knowing all of your personal details?

It sounds like you want the moon on a stick honestly, just like you do with your pension (wanting all of the benefits without paying any of the tax owed).

I notice you tried to call me dishonest and crossed it out, why is that?

 

[tamzzy]

I notice you tried to call me dishonest and crossed it out, why is that?

i crossed it out in the original post ie unedited (as you already have it quoted). because i don't know your intentions. if i've hurt your feelings, i do apologise that you feel that way.

just like you do with your pension (wanting all of the benefits without paying any of the tax owed).

again, i'm not sure i've said that.
i've given you real-life examples of how it impacts service delivery and why consultants now won't pick up extra work.
so it's not a matter of wanting something for nothing. but if it's your prerogative to continue your line of reasoning that way, then so be it. we'll have to agree to disagree.
but to me, all it smells like is that you're salty about the nhs pension scheme and that's the crux of it.

 

[Fine]

Consultants may get paid relatively well (15+ years after starting med school), juniors dont. I make £17/hour now during normal working hours now that Im back in training, I made £50/hr as a locum. Our wages are artificially suppressed. Look at Australian, NZ, Canadian and US wages and then see what ours are.

Who is going to sacrifice their personal life to do hours over 48 to effectively make no real monetary gain?

Also pray do tell how you would modernise. If you have any good ideas I might try and push them as a quality improvement project so you'd be helping my career out.

by modernise I mean pay the appropriate rate and don't manage the system so people have to ridiculous hours.