Nice info on Ivy Bridge

opethdisciple · 15 Jun 2011 at 23:58

Article here.

I remeber somewher reading how PCI-E 3 will also increase the performance of PCI-E 2 gpus...

GaryH-21 · 16 Jun 2011 at 00:15

thanks for posting!

I don't understand most of it, but it was an interesting read all the same

MichaelM · 16 Jun 2011 at 01:12

"Both these processors have a base frequency of 1800MHz (2.4GHz max in Turbo mode), a TDP of 95W and lack support for integrated graphics."

"This includes a new on-die GPU that will come with full DirectX 11 support as well as with 30% more EUs than Sandy Bridge, in order to offer improved performance."

Are they not the same things?
Is it saying Ivy Bridge will have integrated graphics but the engineering samples where produced without it?

:confused:

vintage-x · 16 Jun 2011 at 06:33

MichaelM said:
"Both these processors have a base frequency of 1800MHz (2.4GHz max in Turbo mode), a TDP of 95W and lack support for integrated graphics."

"This includes a new on-die GPU that will come with full DirectX 11 support as well as with 30% more EUs than Sandy Bridge, in order to offer improved performance."

Are they not the same things?
Is it saying Ivy Bridge will have integrated graphics but the engineering samples where produced without it?

from what I can read yeah basically the samples dont have the integrated graphics

nightmare99 · 16 Jun 2011 at 08:23

This ^^^^

Evoss · 16 Jun 2011 at 08:28

Hmm not sure what to think of IB apart from I live 2 miles from a place called Ivybridge

drunkenmaster · 16 Jun 2011 at 11:50

YEs, basically the samples are a bit rubbish, high power, either the early samples are just test silicon of the cpu alone or the IGP is there but not working.

The later part describes what Ivybridge is intended to be as a final released product.

PCI-e 3 will be most likely, pointless for all but a few niche markets, insane bandwidth £15k a drive pci-e ssd drives with silly silly silly speed. Also current gpu's and current bandwidth it would just make for instance quadfire/quad sli a bit more manageable as 4 8x slots would offer the same bandwidth as 4 16x slots currently, the problem being mobo's with those kinds of setups need extra pci-e chips for more lanes and speed, so you could get away without them and on cheaper boards.

THe reality is though, almost no one quadfires/quad sli's, single/dual card setups will basically not benefit from pci-e 3.

Interesting chips, not expecting a massive amount architecturally and 30% faster IGP won't interest that many people. Hessler, kessler, whatever the next 22nm parts from Intel are, are looking far more interesting. Should be finally bringing 6/8 cores to the mainstream price bracket. So over Sandybridge Ivy is supposed to be 20% faster, and a lot of that seems to be coming from clockspeed and gpu vs overall speed increase, while the next thing will be going from 4 to probably 8 cores..... Ivy's not interesting, the next thing along is VERY interesting.

kola · 16 Jun 2011 at 12:17

drunkenmaster said:
Ivy's not interesting, the next thing along is VERY interesting.

imo the next thing after the next thing looks more interesting

opethdisciple · 16 Jun 2011 at 12:21

drunkenmaster said:
YEs, basically the samples are a bit rubbish, high power, either the early samples are just test silicon of the cpu alone or the IGP is there but not working.

The later part describes what Ivybridge is intended to be as a final released product.

PCI-e 3 will be most likely, pointless for all but a few niche markets, insane bandwidth £15k a drive pci-e ssd drives with silly silly silly speed. Also current gpu's and current bandwidth it would just make for instance quadfire/quad sli a bit more manageable as 4 8x slots would offer the same bandwidth as 4 16x slots currently, the problem being mobo's with those kinds of setups need extra pci-e chips for more lanes and speed, so you could get away without them and on cheaper boards.

THe reality is though, almost no one quadfires/quad sli's, single/dual card setups will basically not benefit from pci-e 3.

Interesting chips, not expecting a massive amount architecturally and 30% faster IGP won't interest that many people. Hessler, kessler, whatever the next 22nm parts from Intel are, are looking far more interesting. Should be finally bringing 6/8 cores to the mainstream price bracket. So over Sandybridge Ivy is supposed to be 20% faster, and a lot of that seems to be coming from clockspeed and gpu vs overall speed increase, while the next thing will be going from 4 to probably 8 cores..... Ivy's not interesting, the next thing along is VERY interesting.

I remember reading somewhere that PCI-E 3 will benefit PCI-E 2 gpus with increased performance.

Maybe the article was just talking crap however....

MikeHunt79 · 16 Jun 2011 at 12:26

"Ivy Bridge is the code name used for the 22nm die shrink of the current Sandy Bridge chips and features basically the same architecture, but with a few minor tweaks and improvements."

I thought Ivy was going to be 32nm, not 22nm?

drunkenmaster · 16 Jun 2011 at 12:56

Wouldn't be much of a die shrink if it was on the same process as Sandybridge would it

Tick-tock, architecture change, then a process change, then architecture. Thats the main reason Ivy isn't very interesting, it does have changes but not huge ones, and a larger IGP and higher clock speeds are about all you'll get, but a quad core that does 4.5Ghz to a quad core that will hit 5Ghz isn't very exciting.

The next change(be it tick or tock, forget which it is) is the architecture change on 22nm, 4 core to 8 core, even poor scaling should bring at least 50% more performance, great scaling, maybe 70-80% more performance, FAR more interesting than a die shrink and marginal changes.

As for the thing after that, it will be another shrink and not too exciting.

The biggest increases in performance came when dual core, quad core, hex and octo cores have hit, more cores = better than marginal clock speed increases. Whatever Intel's mainstream octo core is, which was due for late 2012, but I'm sure with Ivy essentially pushed back 6 months that will be mid 2013 at least, it will be a huge push forwards for the mainstream segment, much like Bulldozer octo's will be a massive leap from a quad core Phenom 2.

DragonQ · 16 Jun 2011 at 12:56

MikeHunt79 said:
"Ivy Bridge is the code name used for the 22nm die shrink of the current Sandy Bridge chips and features basically the same architecture, but with a few minor tweaks and improvements."

I thought Ivy was going to be 32nm, not 22nm?

No, Ivy Bridge is a 22 nm die-shrink of the 32 nm Sandy Bridge. Sandy Bridge-E will be 32 nm.

MikeHunt79 · 16 Jun 2011 at 13:18

DragonQ said:
No, Ivy Bridge is a 22 nm die-shrink of the 32 nm Sandy Bridge. Sandy Bridge-E will be 32 nm.

Ok, that makes sense I think, hopefully 22nm will be a nice jump in efficiency.

WingZero30 · 16 Jun 2011 at 15:59

DragonQ said:
No, Ivy Bridge is a 22 nm die-shrink of the 32 nm Sandy Bridge. Sandy Bridge-E will be 32 nm.

It will be interesting to compare Ivy Bridge with Sandy Bridge-E. Will Ivy Bridge also have high end version?

nightmare99 · 16 Jun 2011 at 16:32

It will be interesting to compare Ivy Bridge with Sandy Bridge-E. Will Ivy Bridge also have high end version?

More than likley there will be an Ivybridge-E later on the 2011 socket.

Broken Hope · 19 Jun 2011 at 13:14

opethdisciple said:
I remember reading somewhere that PCI-E 3 will benefit PCI-E 2 gpus with increased performance.

Maybe the article was just talking crap however....

Think things through logically, PCI-E 2 GPU's barely use the bandwidth available from a 16x slot, how will PCI-E 3 make any difference? Not to mention a PCI-E GPU won't even know about anything above PCI-E 2 speeds anyway.

kmufc77 · 19 Jun 2011 at 13:28

Evoss said:
Hmm not sure what to think of IB apart from I live 2 miles from a place called Ivybridge

same

Sampsy · 19 Jun 2011 at 13:43

Hmm not sure I understand a lot of that

opethdisciple · 19 Jun 2011 at 13:43

Broken Hope said:
Think things through logically, PCI-E 2 GPU's barely use the bandwidth available from a 16x slot, how will PCI-E 3 make any difference? Not to mention a PCI-E GPU won't even know about anything above PCI-E 2 speeds anyway.

Taken from here:

"PCIe 2.0 delivers 5 GT/s, but employs an 8b/10b encoding scheme which results in a 20 percent ((10-8)/10) overhead on the raw bit rate. PCIe 3.0 removes the requirement for 8b/10b encoding and instead uses a technique called "scrambling" in which "a known binary polynomial is applied to a data stream in a feedback topology. Because the scrambling polynomial is known, the data can be recovered by running it through a feedback topology using the inverse polynomial"[17] and also uses a 128b/130b ((130-128)/130)encoding scheme, reducing the overhead to approximately 1.5%, as opposed to the 20% overhead of 8b/10b encoding used by PCIe 2.0. PCIe 3.0's 8 GT/s bit rate effectively delivers double PCIe 2.0 bandwidth."

This isnt the exact article I saw, but they reckon that due to less overhead, even PCI EX2 GPU's will see increased performance in a PCI Ex 3 slot.

Would be nice if true.

Fangman · 19 Jun 2011 at 19:06

I am always after more information regarding ivy bridge, and i am very interested to see if this new 3d architecture is worth it.

PCI-E3.0 might finally see sli/crossfire setups not being bottlenecked by the x8x8 motherboards, although saying that, when people have met that botleneck, the difference was small (5fps i think?)