No wonder CompSci grads are unemployed ?

[NathanE]

Because it makes them feel bad about themselves, their choices and their future employability??

People don't realise that universities are businesses and they will tell you anything you want to hear to get your custom/money. Whether you get a degree that has no market value is something they don't really care most of the times (depends on the uni but generally valid).

I don't see why undergrads should be offended by that article? If they think it applies to them then they should use it as a wake up call. So instead of opting for easy modules like "Computer Ethics", maybe opt for that module called "Programming C++" or "Programming Ruby" which only 15 others have the balls to do.

CompSci is about understanding, conceptualising and writing code. The more an undergrad exposes himself to this, the more employable he will be.

Hell if your uni. is so crap that it doesn't actually offer any non-Java modules, then study them by yourself. That's what uni. is all about. It's not about being spoon fed everything you need to know to be successful. Or hell, change to another uni.?

At the end of the day, nobody that leaves ANY uni. is going to be a complete and utter coding hot shot on day one of being employed. You might THINK you are but you will soon realise that you know almost nothing about developing REAL applications that are maintainable, well designed and performant. That is why the first couple years after you've finished Uni and landed a job are critical. This is the time where you find out what sort of coder you REALLY are. If you're still struggling with development pace, OOP design / SOLID, and architectural principles after 2 years then, sorry, you ain't cut out for it long-term and should probably start looking to go into management.

PS: The article is NOT an anti-Java rant like some seem to have interpreted it. He is merely saying that the Java market is saturated with wannabe developers. Which is totally true. But so is the .NET market, but not quite so severely. The C/C++ market tends to be undersaturated now and attracts more senior developers. Having said that, some of the OOP practices used by C++ developers are really starting to age now in comparison to what is happening in the Managed (Java / .NET) worlds and emerging Dynamic (Ruby / RoR) worlds.

 

[FreeStream]

Bristol Uni Comp-Sci did Java for the 1st year and haven't touched it since.

They are working on Python/C++ and coding languages I've never heard of before.

Clearly the standard of the course depends on the uni...

 

[toshj]

I come across the author of this piece quite often, and his "opinions" on the space are somewhat hard-hitting and tend to ruffle a view feathers. best to have a look at the stuff he writes on efinancialcareers, and have a read through the comments to get an understanding of how he is regarded in the industry.

 

[ntg]

I come across the author of this piece quite often, and his "opinions" on the space are somewhat hard-hitting and tend to ruffle a view feathers. best to have a look at the stuff he writes on efinancialcareers, and have a read through the comments to get an understanding of how he is regarded in the industry.

Regardless of what people think of him (I don't know if the comments you refer to are positive or negative) he is placing people in 6-figure salaries so he must know what he is looking for.

 

[nero120]

Geez, just because someone can declare a variable in Java doesn't mean they can develop enterprise applications! The programming is simply one piece of the puzzle, and there is no way in hell I'd develop web apps in C++.

I know that's not what the guy is saying, but horses for courses. Pick the best tool that suits the job!

 

[RDM]

Regardless of what people think of him (I don't know if the comments you refer to are positive or negative) he is placing people in 6-figure salaries so he must know what he is looking for.

Is it possible then that he is actually looking at what a CompSci degree is meant to do from a very narrow viewpoint? "CompSci degrees are not producing the people I currently need to fill a market gap." may be a more accurate description of his problem?

 

[toshj]

Regardless of what people think of him (I don't know if the comments you refer to are positive or negative) he is placing people in 6-figure salaries so he must know what he is looking for.

in financial recruitment you needn't necessarily know what you're doing to place VP level candidates. most people in the industry see him as a bit of a joke.

 

[subbass]

I don't see why undergrads should be offended by that article? If they think it applies to them then they should use it as a wake up call. So instead of opting for easy modules like "Computer Ethics", maybe opt for that module called "Programming C++" or "Programming Ruby" which only 15 others have the balls to do.

CompSci is about understanding, conceptualising and writing code. The more an undergrad exposes himself to this, the more employable he will be.

Hell if your uni. is so crap that it doesn't actually offer any non-Java modules, then study them by yourself. That's what uni. is all about. It's not about being spoon fed everything you need to know to be successful. Or hell, change to another uni.?

At the end of the day, nobody that leaves ANY uni. is going to be a complete and utter coding hot shot on day one of being employed. You might THINK you are but you will soon realise that you know almost nothing about developing REAL applications that are maintainable, well designed and performant. That is why the first couple years after you've finished Uni and landed a job are critical. This is the time where you find out what sort of coder you REALLY are. If you're still struggling with development pace, OOP design / SOLID, and architectural principles after 2 years then, sorry, you ain't cut out for it long-term and should probably start looking to go into management.

PS: The article is NOT an anti-Java rant like some seem to have interpreted it. He is merely saying that the Java market is saturated with wannabe developers. Which is totally true. But so is the .NET market, but not quite so severely. The C/C++ market tends to be undersaturated now and attracts more senior developers. Having said that, some of the OOP practices used by C++ developers are really starting to age now in comparison to what is happening in the Managed (Java / .NET) worlds and emerging Dynamic (Ruby / RoR) worlds.

Got it spot on. I was going to write something that

 

[Mason-]

From my other post, I understand that being a 'code-monkey' etc isn't all that's needed anymore. But doing some computing coursework where you get no marks for your code is ridiculous.

Plus having to interview the end user and drawing flow charts is crap.

There are parts that I do agree with and I found valuable e.g.
Dry running algorithms on paper.
Testing.

But the rest is a load of plop.

Computing A-Level is slowly turning into ICT A-Level and it sucks.

 

[Mason-]

looking through all of this I'm kind of worried now :/
I have chosen to study Computer Games Programming in Uni, its a 4 year course with a year of working in the 3rd year then the final year completes the degree.
The syllabus says that it teaches Java, C and C++ as well as some mathematics which will then help cover advanced physics.

To anyone out there that is a programmer or indeed did a programming course in uni, does this sound like it should be a course where I can come out and get a job straight away? Or have any of you learnt from past experiences?
any help would be lovely cheers

If you can become fluent in C then you can pretty much do anything.

 

[MikeHunt79]

I agree. I guess the problem is people who think Java is the only language worth using when clearly different languages suit different needs and deadlines.

I have no problems with Java I'm just glad we had to use several different languages rather than some courses which make you stick to one language throughout.

I mostly write C# now which is practically Java syntax anyway . I still find C++ scary, I should really brush up on it one day.

Yep I could have done nothing but Java (and a little ASM) if I wanted to during my course but I managed to have a crack at a little C++, some PHP and also Javascript and actionscript along with a few others and you soon realise that many languages tend to have at least some overlap, apart from things like ASM.

I completly agree with the article.

Syllabuses at many universities are becoming increasingly poor and high level. Things like algorithm efficiency and design are really core CS topics and need to be covered in-depth. I also seriously thing programming in assembly should be taught way before high level stuff like Java to give a deeper understanding of how everything works. This would be more hardcore, but it would filter out a lot of people along for an easy ride.

Basically Computer Science is merging with Software Engineering

I did x86 assembly in the 2nd year of my CS course, it was core module meaning everyone had to do it. I already had some experience myself so I didn't find it too bad but the amount of people who didn't pass was pretty shocking.

 

[josh91]

For all those who jumped straight into C++ what universities did you guys go to?
I'm thinking of doing an MSci, MEng or MComp rather than a BSci or BEng at Leicester university, maybe York university too, Southampton will be one of my choices too.

I don't wanna relearn a language I loosely taught myself at home too much, I mean I think they should teach you Java at college rather than ****ty VB and then go straight into C++ at university.

 

[josh91]

Oh forgot to say is it worth it doing the extra year for the MEng/MSci opposed to the BSci or BEng? "Master's Degree" sounds awesome too, even though I'm not sure it's a masters, whatevs!