Nokia to use Windows OS

I don't think that the lack of a tablet OS is a big deal - tablets are overrated. Most people who picked up ipads have sold them on because after the initial few weeks they find that they just aren't using them that much.

I don;t agree with that at all, most haven't and sales are predicted to go through the roof for tablets in the coming years.

The form factor is too awkward for books or movie watching, and touchscreens are no good for productivity. Very few people really fit into the niche where a tablet makes sense .. which is basically people who spend so much time on their smartphones that having a bigger screen is worth the inconvenience of lugging a tablet around.

it's not awkward to watch a movie on or read a book on, it also isn't just for outside, but comes in very useful in the house. Sofa and bed surfing. A pick up and play device unlike a laptop/netbook.
 
Really?

Android will be something else in 4 years. Google's pacing will see through several generations of Mobile OS and the Google ecosystem as an entirety in that timeframe while Nokia are still getting gradual updates to Windows Mobile given previous Windows Mobile experiences.

No company will be able to outpace Google's current rate of expansion and improvement. They've overtaken Apple and RIM in less than 18 months for starters in both sales and users.
 
Wasnt they already beating Android and iOS with symbian?

It's more like Nokia were beating them with their brand name, nevermind the software.

A huge portion of the admittedly more clueless share of the market will see two household names they trust (Nokia/MicrosoftWindows) and opt for that over the HTC 'jap' phones.
 
Really?

Android will be something else in 4 years. Google's pacing will see through several generations of Mobile OS and the Google ecosystem as an entirety in that timeframe while Nokia are still getting gradual updates to Windows Mobile given previous Windows Mobile experiences.

No company will be able to outpace Google's current rate of expansion and improvement. They've overtaken Apple and RIM in less than 18 months for starters in both sales and users.

Gradual updates ? tell me what needs a massive overhaul on WP7 there are some key features missing like Copy and Paste/Multi Tasking in non windows apps. Bar that (I know there are more issues for other users) they just need the marketplace to grow/more devs developing for the device and marketshare to grow to make the above things happen on a more frequent basis.

The Nexus One from last year hasn't got the latest Android OS why is that ? and some apps are incompatible with previous devices on old firmware. But the average consumer cares about none of this. I simply think Nokia will make a huge impact when they start releasing devices for WP7 and build momentum from there. Without a ton of them realising what their buying it's not like an iPhone.
 
And I don't. They will make steady sales no doubt but they won't be making a huge impact like you're expecting.

Nexus One 2.3 update is due yes and it is coming out but that's not the point here, the point was that OS updates happen often with Android, every few months. Those updates are major ones giving new features and new improvements to speed and usability.

Then there's the development community.

For a closed OS like WP7 I don't see that kind of boom happening at all. Nokia were too big headed before and they're still being big headed with this new MS joint venture and that doesn't give me any confidence at their false confidence :/
 
And I don't. They will make steady sales no doubt but they won't be making a huge impact like you're expecting.

Nexus One 2.3 update is due yes and it is coming out but that's not the point here, the point was that OS updates happen often with Android, every few months. Those updates are major ones giving new features and new improvements to speed and usability.

Then there's the development community.

For a closed OS like WP7 I don't see that kind of boom happening at all. Nokia were too big headed before and they're still being big headed with this new MS joint venture and that doesn't give me any confidence at their false confidence :/

Huge impact which is why I've said 4 years at least. As they aren't throwing the towel with Symbian right away. OS updates happen often with Android because it's been out long enough for that to occur. Microsoft wants unified updates for all devices at the same time which means agreed roll out times with the mobile networks! I expect 1-3 updates a year with my WP7 Device and that's more than enough as the Nexus One is just getting it's first one ? I sold it after having it for 6 months (from the moment it was out on the google store)

The boom may not happen but I think it will do. I don't really need to explain the intricacies of an OS as I've said the average consumer could care less and doesn't know about it. If Nokia and MS market it right it'll do well - Zune/Xbox Live/Office are the segments they need to market to different consumers we shall see.
 

GL with that!
I wonder where this leaves WP7 and everyone else? Will Samsung/HTC and co. continue to make WP7 hardware given that Nokia are clearly teachers pet?

All the non-tech savvy people I know think Android is hassle, that is because they are technologically stupid but people aren't going to be paying £400+ for something they dont know how to use properly. Some might, most wont.

Do they *think* that, or is that their opinion? I did read a small bit of an interview with some top LG guy that was saying that their research found that people thought that Android might difficult to use, while they thought that WP7 would be easy to use because it's Windows.(i.e they had tried neither). I wonder how much of that is just in the name itself-'Android'!
 
I don;t agree with that at all, most haven't and sales are predicted to go through the roof for tablets in the coming years.

it's not awkward to watch a movie on or read a book on, it also isn't just for outside, but comes in very useful in the house. Sofa and bed surfing. A pick up and play device unlike a laptop/netbook.

ebook readers are far superior for books - the e-ink screen is easy on the eyes and works great outdoors, great battery life and much lighter. For movies in bed , a laptop is better because you don't have to hold it. They also cope better with web browsing - multiple tabs, flash games, replying to posts etc.

Don't get me wrong, there have been times I would have found one useful, but most of the time some other device makes more sense. They are cool gadgets and I'd love to have one around, but too niche for me to justify £400+ on. If decent ones get down to netbook prices (<£200) I'll probably pick one up for the hell of it, but for now I just wouldn't get good value from it.
 
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ebook readers are far superior for books - the e-ink screen, great battery life and much lighter.
10 hours is more than enough and most people aren't going to spend several hundred on multiple devices. You can read fine on tablets and they have a colour screen and as such far more flexible.

For movies in bed , a laptop is better because you don't have to hold it. They also cope better with web browsing - multiple tabs, flash games, replying to posts etc.
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You don;t have to hold a tablet, you are able to get both stands and keyboards making all those points obsolete. Along with you can detach it and use it as a portable device with no need for a worktop, unlike netbooks/laptops. it has multi task, multi tab browsing, flash player + games.

They will replace netbooks/laptops for anyone who doesn't do business work on them and even that is likely to move to them eventually.

but for now I just wouldn't get good value from it.
same can be said with any tech, in which case you don't buy one. People underestimated smart phones saying they had no use for it. It is surprising how fast people and uses change and people start depending on the new tech and change their original opinion.
 
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Nokia saying that their first priority is beating Android.... why don't these companies have realistic goals. Android is a completely different experience and is open source, with Windows you're stuck with what you've got.

If they wanted to beat them, they should allow multi booting Operating systems on their phones.
 
Why do people think that this is an unreasonable goal? Nokia is still the largest manufacturer of smartphones and the vast majority of consumers don't care whether their OS is open or not.
 
Why do people think that this is an unreasonable goal? Nokia is still the largest manufacturer of smartphones and the vast majority of consumers don't care whether their OS is open or not.
We've been through this a million times before, just because you call your phone a smartphone, doesn't mean it really is. A huge proportion of their "smartphone" sales will be commodity priced devices that happen to be running S60, licensing costs and minimum hardware requirements mean that Nokia isn't going to be able to release WP7 phones at the same price point as these sales (for quite a while), Elop has already acknowledged that Android is eating their lunch at the lower end.
 
We've been through this a million times before, just because you call your phone a smartphone, doesn't mean it really is.

Nokia (with Symbian) invented the term smartphone. It's a term that people within the industry agree on. Just because arm-chair analysts say "but.. but.. that doesn't fit my definition of a smartphone" doesn't make it true.

If you want to call high-end Android devices and the iPhone superphones or megaphones, that's fine. But what Nokia has been selling are smartphones.

A huge proportion of their "smartphone" sales will be commodity priced devices that happen to be running S60

Just like most Android devices will be commodity devices at the low end. I don't see why Nokia is being singled out here. What percentage of Android users walked into the phone retailer and specifically asked for an Android device? 10%? From speaking to phone retailers, most people want an iPhone but can't afford it. Android is the alternative that phone retailers push consumers onto.

licensing costs and minimum hardware requirements mean that Nokia isn't going to be able to release WP7 phones at the same price point as these sales (for quite a while)

Disagree. If you go back to the original press conference, someone in the audience asked about licensing. The answer was understandably vague but it referred to an exchange of technology rather than cash. I wouldn't be surprised if Nokia is getting WP7 for free over the first two years and then on volume, rather than individual cost-per-unit, pricing after that. The cost is no doubt lower than the R&D spend on Symbian.

Since even the ZTE Blade would almost conform to the WP7 chassis specs, pricing shouldn't be an issue.
 
Nokia (with Symbian) invented the term smartphone. It's a term that people within the industry agree on. Just because arm-chair analysts say "but.. but.. that doesn't fit my definition of a smartphone" doesn't make it true.

If you want to call high-end Android devices and the iPhone superphones or megaphones, that's fine. But what Nokia has been selling are smartphones.
True, although the perception of what a smartphone is and does broadened, Nokia rather failed to keep pace, both with the phones themselves and the wider services that people expected from smartphones. Hence their share of the smartphone market was deceptive.

Just like most Android devices will be commodity devices at the low end. I don't see why Nokia is being singled out here. What percentage of Android users walked into the phone retailer and specifically asked for an Android device? 10%? From speaking to phone retailers, most people want an iPhone but can't afford it. Android is the alternative that phone retailers push consumers onto.
My wife a few months ago moved from an S60 device to a Motorola Defy, technically both will have counted as smartphone sales, but the S60 phone was purely a text and call device where as of her own volition she's sought out apps to do all kinds of things with the android phone. Also it's not about wanting an iPhone and not being able to afford it, she didn't see the value in the iPhone in comparison to an Android device, I'd wager far more people get them for that reason than because they can't actually afford an iPhone.

Disagree. If you go back to the original press conference, someone in the audience asked about licensing. The answer was understandably vague but it referred to an exchange of technology rather than cash. I wouldn't be surprised if Nokia is getting WP7 for free over the first two years and then on volume, rather than individual cost-per-unit, pricing after that. The cost is no doubt lower than the R&D spend on Symbian.

Since even the ZTE Blade would almost conform to the WP7 chassis specs, pricing shouldn't be an issue.
the ZTE Blade while a capable device is not one I would expect Nokia to be releasing, it is rather a mishmash of parts in a not that enticing shell, equally Nokia is going to face increased manufacturing and design costs in comparison to their WP7 competitors especially considering Samsung who directly manufacture a large amount of their parts.

I agree that cheaper WP7 devices are going to be possible, I'm just dubious that they can get them down to the level they were selling S60 devices at.
 
Just like most Android devices will be commodity devices at the low end. I don't see why Nokia is being singled out here. What percentage of Android users walked into the phone retailer and specifically asked for an Android device? 10%? From speaking to phone retailers, most people want an iPhone but can't afford it. Android is the alternative that phone retailers push consumers onto.

You're right of course, but the difference is Android is free (or almost so), as is Symbian, whereas MS charges a per-unit license, so at lower price points that would eat into their margin too much. That's the only reason I don't see WP7 going into cheaper phones tbh, not its minimum specs (the way microprocessors are going we're going to have SoCs as fast as a Snapdragon in £50 dumbphones in a couple of years).

My wife a few months ago moved from an S60 device to a Motorola Defy, technically both will have counted as smartphone sales, but the S60 phone was purely a text and call device where as of her own volition she's sought out apps to do all kinds of things with the android phone. Also it's not about wanting an iPhone and not being able to afford it, she didn't see the value in the iPhone in comparison to an Android device, I'd wager far more people get them for that reason than because they can't actually afford an iPhone.
I totally agree, though bear in mind that a phone's function mostly comes as much out of how you design the phone and UI as out of anything else. Symbian was a capable enough OS for most things, and these days even the CPUs on cheaper phones are capable of most simple computing tasks. But in S40/S60 phones the whole UI was designed around the core phone functions cause that's what those phones were aimed at. You could put Android and a Tegra 2 in one of those, won't be very good for web browsing or office work if all you've got is a phone keypad and a 2" screen, will it? :) Coversely, my Desire Z doesn't even have hardware buttons for answering and ending calls (which takes some getting used to, let me tell you), so while it can do so much more it's actually LESS easy to use for making calls! :p

Theoretically, with the computing power available for very low cost these days, combined with Nokia's experience at optimising a phone's form factor and UI for the intended use its target users will want it for, there's nothing to stop them from sticking any phone OS to any phone at any price point - the limiting factor is lisencing fees: you can't sell $20 phones to Kenyans and pay $59 per unit to Microsoft. With SYmbian, Meego (and even Android), that's something they wouldn't need to worry about. And while it's true that they're not making much money selling low-price dumbphones to the developing world, brand loyalty is Nokia's biggest trump card right now: it would be awesome for them if, when demand for smartphones really blows up in those places in a few years, the first phone people look at is a Nokia cause that's the brand they've known and trusted all their lives! That's the main reason they're keeping Symbian going really, cause if they give that up to the Shenzen manufacturers, they'd be giving up a massive market advantage!

Believe me, if they had any brains they'd know that being last place in the US market means NOTHING! Pretty soon there'll be twice as many £400 smartphones being sold in India as are sold in the US, and although other brands are also known,, Nokia has a massive lead over there already.
 
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